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Post by M David Steel on Jul 29, 2014 16:56:33 GMT -5
So in the first two books each has had a character in them featured at one point, whom was in a series of unfortunate events and I have been wondering who else might appear in the third and fourth books? Jerome squalor I think is one possibility and another is Hal but im happy to hear other ideas too about who else we might see
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Post by Dante on Jul 30, 2014 2:22:42 GMT -5
Jerome Squalor was almost certainly not a volunteer as a child (per Jacques's letter to him in the U.A., in which Jacques has to explain that he's a member of a secret organisation), so he's out barring some odd circumstance like being a proxy for a friend. Hal was already teased in File Under, so he's probably out, and in any case would already be way older than a teenager at this point. Similarly, Monty was teased in ?1, so I don't think we'll get him.
Olaf is ?3 or never, in my opinion, so I'm putting my money on him next; he's too antagonistic to show up right at the end of the series (excluding the very tenuous possibility of a sequel hook), but he'd be great to depress Snicket even more right before the last book. Beatrice and Kit are ?4 or never, and I think the former's slightly more likely on a romantic commiseration note - in fact, ?4 is the end of the series and so it would have to be someone really special to appear in probably the last chapter of ATWQ, so there's no point on speculating anyone secondary for anything other than ?3. Josephine would be a good candidate owing to her knowledge of marine life, but might be too similar to Widdershins in that respect. Olivia or R. would be very good ideas as well, and the latter would be likely to get an actual name if that were to happen, which seems like the sort of thing Snicket would do for ATWQ (like clearing up that Hector was a volunteer, for instance). Most other candidates, guardians or other interesting figures, I'd rule out for one reason or another, save maybe Bertrand or one of the Denouements. There is Jacques, actually, who I really want to show up and be awesome so we're retrospectively more depressed by his death in TVV, and I think he'd work for either of the next books. But ATWQ's been strangely silent on him, and I kinda suspect that he's been scattered far from his siblings too, as V.F.D. try to keep the three Snicket siblings from uniting to cause trouble. So perhaps not.
Here's my wishlist/speculist:
?3: 1. Olaf 2. R. 3. Olivia
?4: 1. Beatrice 2. Kit 3. Bertrand
Wild card: Jacques
Good thread, matthewmemories.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Jul 30, 2014 13:16:41 GMT -5
Like Dante, I think that both Kit and Beatrice is ?4 or never, but each of those bear a footnote. Kit has been referred to all through the series, so her direct appearance would have a completely different impact on the reader than the one that was made by Hector and Widdershins. So I think it's more likely that she appears under entirely different circumstances, not just in the last chapter, or just keeps getting referenced this way. As for Beatrice, is it possible that we have met her already, but that events in ?4 leads to her going by a codename? Or that, alternatively, she has been using a fake name up until now? I'm just brainstorming here, there's probably something that rules this out somewhere in the books. I also think that Olaf is ?4 or never, since he's simply so important a character in ASOUE. Narratively, it would make sense to save that sort of thing for the Grand Finale of the series.
I agree that Olivia is a realistic option - she's about as prominent in ASOUE as the other cameos so far - , and I would love for Bertrand to appear. I'm sort of curious about his relationship to Snicket before he married Beatrice.
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Post by Dante on Jul 30, 2014 13:36:40 GMT -5
It seems unlikely that Beatrice is a certain ATWQ character presently operating under the initial E., as Lemony first met Beatrice at the V.F.D. academy when he was ten years old. It would be difficult for her appearance and voice to have changed completely in less than three years, and just plain strange for her to have an entirely different backstory, much less to spin Lemony such a tall tale when he could easily have not just known the truth but helped her all the more willingly because he knew the truth. I regret it, because I think it's a really nice theory and really satisfying in some ways - Lemony suspecting in TBL that young Beatrice might actually be someone initialled E., for instance - but it just conflicts too much with canon. So that's that.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 30, 2014 14:38:46 GMT -5
(Actually he was 11.) But there also seems to be a back-reference to Beatrice in WDYSHL, when L says that on a camping expedition 'a friend of mine caught her first bat'. (Though of course this could be a red herring.)
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Post by Dante on Jul 30, 2014 15:23:35 GMT -5
I mixed it up and thought Beatrice was the older one rather than the younger one. TBL sure is a bother to dig out and check, though. But that makes the case against E. even stronger, as it means it was was less than two years ago that Lemony first saw Beatrice. Or at least, first wrote to her. I agree that this is almost certainly Beatrice, and almost certainly not a red herring. I'd be fine with it being a red herring, incidentally, but not the TBL retcon. TBL deserves better than that. (By the way, ProBoards managed to post your last post twice, so I took the liberty of deleting the duplicate for you.)
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Post by Hermes on Jul 30, 2014 16:07:41 GMT -5
As I understand it we don't actually know how old B was - there's a widespread belief that she was 10, but I think that comes from a teaser for TBL which in fact is more likely to refer to young B, who is 10 at the end of the story. I have always thought of B as a bit older than Lemony, and I don't think that's inconsistent with anything in canon; though I'm now less confident of the idea, since it was based on the thought that L was the youngest volunteer of his intake, and it now seems clear that Hector, at least, was younger. (And yes, I agree that L being eleven strengthens your argument.)
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Post by M David Steel on Jul 30, 2014 22:48:21 GMT -5
There is Geraldine Julienne who could be helpful to Moxie or could be her rival.
Maybe the man with the beard (but no hair) but this could be when he still had his hair
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Post by Dante on Jul 31, 2014 2:00:34 GMT -5
I could've seen a younger Geraldine Julienne showing up in something like File Under: 13 Suspicious Incidents as a cameo character. I don't know if she's Chapter Thirteen material, though, on account of not being a volunteer. The man with a beard but no hair and the woman with hair but no beard must be quite old in ASoUE (having had an infant servant before the schism), so if they showed up in ATWQ they might not be that much different, so that would be quite a troubling appearance.
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Post by M David Steel on Aug 2, 2014 18:01:58 GMT -5
I did think of larry the waiter there is some use for him. I believe it to be set 20 years before a series of unfortunate events but could be wrong as there's nothing to say how long before.
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Post by Dante on Aug 3, 2014 2:42:00 GMT -5
Twenty years isn't a bad estimate, but I'd put it at a bit more than that. If it's twenty years before, Violet gets born in only about five years.
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Post by Hermes on Aug 3, 2014 9:39:17 GMT -5
Yes, which...
It could be made to work. The dating I tend to follow has Lemony leaving school and starting work at the DP at eighteen, and getting engaged to Beatrice a little after that. Then, to give time for the break-up, L's reported death and the engagement to Bertrand, Violet can be born when L is about twenty-three. But given that VFD educational practices seem a bit odd, and that one can get married at any age in Snicketland (and of course getting engaged does not, in any case, imply an intention to marry immediately), one could fit all these events into the five years after ATWQ. I doubt it, though.
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Post by M David Steel on Aug 9, 2014 16:49:25 GMT -5
So some of you think Beatrice will be in book four, so at what point did they sail on her boat and get shipwrecked?
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Post by Dante on Aug 10, 2014 3:08:29 GMT -5
Well, given that Beatrice became pregnant with Violet while on the island, then that wouldn't happen for many years yet - maybe not a decade or more. We don't know how old Beatrice was when she arrived on the island or how long she stayed there, but it was after she had gotten engaged to and then broken her engagement with Lemony, which obviously isn't happening any time soon as of ATWQ. As such, Beatrice is very much free to show up in the series.
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Post by Agathological on Sept 10, 2014 12:56:20 GMT -5
I would like to see some mention of the Denouement Brothers. Snicket implied in TPP that they (F. & E.) are not as clear cut as they seem on what side they're on.
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