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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 16:10:30 GMT -5
i reckon we should not allow people over 70 to vote, or for that matter, to run for political office. i cannot see any flaws in this idea. what do you all think.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 17, 2017 16:52:04 GMT -5
The minimum age of voting should also be raised every year by one year, so that good-fer-nuthin millenials aren't able to vote. Only the healthy middle-aged people contributing to society should have any say.
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 17:22:24 GMT -5
the logic for a minimum voting age is the same as the logic for a max. i didn't say nothing about raising or lowering anything, just instating a maximum age in general.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 17, 2017 18:10:20 GMT -5
and i was just joshin.
your argument only makes sense, if you assume that dementia inevitably sets in at 70, which it doesn't. 70 years is quite early at any rate, though I figure it might not seem so to a barely 20y/o. Noam Chomsky is 88 years old rn, and up til now he's proven to be one of the wokest mf's out there. I'd be on board for a voting age cap at 90, since your vote will likely barely affect your life anymore (and might more easily be manipulated by relatives?).
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 18:55:28 GMT -5
the whole demographic doesn't need to have dementia for them to be generally unviable for voting. 70 is just a ballpark number -- i suppose it could be 80, or maybe 90. idk, how did we decide on 18 as a minimum? the brain isn't fully developed until ~25. similarly, studies show that fluid intelligence has decreased substantially from its peak by the time you're a senior. when a behavior is prevalent enough, like minors being politically unaware and having insufficient mental capacity to vote, we keep 'em completely at bay until they're 18. there are probably loads of extremely woke 17 year olds whose votes would be nothing but beneficial, but it's for the greater good. i would happily bar noam chomsky from voting if every other 88 year old couldn't vote either.
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 19:01:27 GMT -5
the life expectancy in america is 79, so if you set the maximum voting age at 80, the average american wouldn't even be alive to be affected by it.
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Post by zombieinthesnow on Sept 17, 2017 19:07:16 GMT -5
There's no guarantee how long they'll live, could easily be through the next president's term.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 17, 2017 20:04:59 GMT -5
when a behavior is prevalent enough, like minors being politically unaware and having insufficient mental capacity to vote, we keep 'em completely at bay until they're 18. there are probably loads of extremely woke 17 year olds whose votes would be nothing but beneficial, but it's for the greater good. i would happily bar noam chomsky from voting if every other 88 year old couldn't vote either. my point wasn't that chomsky would be barred, but that he shows how an 88 year old can have a greater mental capacity than many (in his case most) people younger than them. pretty sure there's way more politically educated 70-80y/olds than politically educated teenagers. to find out a sensible "age cap", there would have to be a study on at what age the senior's average mental capacity would fall back to an average pre-18-year-old's mental capacity, and this would probably be difficult (though maybe not impossible).
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 20:11:44 GMT -5
18 year-olds are excluded from voting because they are legal minors and given many, many exemptions from the legal system in general. The system is set up to treat legal minors as non-participants in the law, so they theoretically suffer less consequences and bear less responsibilities. Trial as a minor, no taxes - no voting. Citizens aged 70 and above pay taxes, must absolutely follow laws, and have the right and responsibility to vote and determine the system that governs them. usually the age to be tried as an adult is different from legal adulthood. it's usually 16 or 17, and in some cases could be 15 or 14. taxes aren't synonymous with the right to vote at all. i do not pay taxes, but i can vote. permanent residents pay taxes, but they can't vote.
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 20:32:32 GMT -5
I'd always thought the age limit was based on experience, not political awareness or intelligence. I'm sure plenty of voters fail one or both of those second two marks. However, the older you get, the more experience you get living inside the current system, which is completely different from simple political awareness. I might be very smart and know about the legal systems of Czechoslovakia, but I haven't lived there long enough to actually know what being inside that system is like, so of course I can't help determine the system. My guess is the 18 year age limit is the amount of time that would maybe give you enough practical experience in the system so you know what you like and what you don't. Because very smart people who have done a lot of research can still not have any actual experience with a subject. theoretically people might use that excuse, because obviously every citizen doesn't need to take an intelligence test to vote, but i don't think experience is consistent with our voting laws either. in some states, you can vote even without ever having lived in the US -- just as long as you're a citizen and one of your parents lives in that state. in maine and vermont, incarcerated people can still vote, so if you murdered a bunch of people at age 16 and spent the rest of your life in prison, you could still vote without having any experience in society.
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Post by Reba on Sept 17, 2017 20:48:39 GMT -5
when a behavior is prevalent enough, like minors being politically unaware and having insufficient mental capacity to vote, we keep 'em completely at bay until they're 18. there are probably loads of extremely woke 17 year olds whose votes would be nothing but beneficial, but it's for the greater good. i would happily bar noam chomsky from voting if every other 88 year old couldn't vote either. my point wasn't that chomsky would be barred, but that he shows how an 88 year old can have a greater mental capacity than many (in his case most) people younger than them. pretty sure there's way more politically educated 70-80y/olds than politically educated teenagers. to find out a sensible "age cap", there would have to be a study on at what age the senior's average mental capacity would fall back to an average pre-18-year-old's mental capacity, and this would probably be difficult (though maybe not impossible). the young adult will have very high fluid intelligence, but low crystallized intelligence. between 70 and 80, both will even out to the point of the young adult. picking an old age for legal purposes would not have to be any more technical than picking the age "18" out of the "young adult" demographic.
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Post by penne on Sept 18, 2017 0:08:54 GMT -5
id only be down for an age cap bc most old ppl are conservative potato s and thats just a fact everyone knows from experience. cant really defend that idea tho
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 18, 2017 2:28:30 GMT -5
either it's a fact or it's based on experience, which would be circumstantial evidence. I'd agree that old folk are pretty set on what they've always believed in and not prone to change their minds on something. that, of course, means also that today's youth will be stubborn about changing any beliefs when they enter old age. but that also depends on what they believe in, cos I've met some old-ass commies too. picking an old age for legal purposes would not have to be any more technical than picking the age "18" out of the "young adult" demographic. you seem kinda bitter about 18 being the legal age, mate. i mean, i always figured it's the age when people normally finish school. and then you enter the school of life. EDIT: In my thoroughly non-expert opinion, based on that shady demographic bandit posted, I wouldn't veto an age cap at 80-85.
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Post by Reba on Sept 18, 2017 7:42:12 GMT -5
lol i have no reason to be bitter about it. i just think it shows that laws are pretty arbitrary, like no law is based on hard science, we're just making rough estimates of transitional periods in the average life. the age cap could vary from state to state, as long as we all agree that them old people shouldn't vote.
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Post by Charlie on Sept 19, 2017 5:46:21 GMT -5
Thing is, it'd never happen bc, like, all legislation regarding voting aims to encourage conservative voters and discourage liberal-minded voters
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