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Post by Dante on Apr 27, 2018 6:53:20 GMT -5
Possibly Stephin Merritt misunderstood; possibly either he or Mr. Handler whipped up a quick retcon to tidy up the loose end of a forgotten character. And the wart-faced man is a forgotten character; although he's specifically listed escaping with Olaf's associates at the end of TBB, when Snicket recounts the list of Olaf's associates in TRR then the wart-faced man isn't mentioned, and never is again.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 27, 2018 8:44:22 GMT -5
My view has always been that the WFM is an independent villain who is co-operating with Olaf, like Dr Orwell, possibly the manager of the theatre: note that he is not mentioned when Olaf's troupe come to dinner (though he might have been one of the invisible people in the shadows - but he does not need to be). This does make his appearance in the poll, along with the other independent villains Dr Orwell and Ernest, quite appropriate.
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Post by Dante on Apr 27, 2018 9:07:00 GMT -5
Of course, one must take into account the given size of the theatre troupe. Count Olaf describes his troupe as having ten members, with the caveat that it is not clear whether he includes himself; TBB p. 30 has him refer to "the ten of them" (rather than "the ten of us"), but the Baudelaires are assuming they only have to cook for ten people total as early as page 33, which then becomes thirteen people on page 42 when they remember that the three of them need to eat too. But if we go by the original description implying ten beside Olaf, then that number can be made up entirely from characters appearing in TBB; the regular troupe (the hook-handed man, bald man, henchperson of indeterminate gender, and the two white-faced women), plus the important-looking man with warts all over his face, the three very short men, and the woman with very short hair (all p. 134). That would imply that the wart-faced man was one of the "assortment of people the children could not see" (p. 48).
Edit: To be clear, Hermes, you know all this already; but I thought it was best to review for those who haven't been through this countless times before.
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Post by lemonmeringue on May 2, 2018 15:35:05 GMT -5
I think the wart faced man is an associate of Olaf, but still independent, rather than working for him.
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vfds321s
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Post by vfds321s on May 10, 2018 11:08:06 GMT -5
Of course, one must take into account the given size of the theatre troupe. Count Olaf describes his troupe as having ten members, with the caveat that it is not clear whether he includes himself; TBB p. 30 has him refer to "the ten of them" (rather than "the ten of us"), but the Baudelaires are assuming they only have to cook for ten people total as early as page 33, which then becomes thirteen people on page 42 when they remember that the three of them need to eat too. But if we go by the original description implying ten beside Olaf, then that number can be made up entirely from characters appearing in TBB; the regular troupe (the hook-handed man, bald man, henchperson of indeterminate gender, and the two white-faced women), plus the important-looking man with warts all over his face, the three very short men, and the woman with very short hair (all p. 134). That would imply that the wart-faced man was one of the "assortment of people the children could not see" (p. 48). Edit: To be clear, Hermes, you know all this already; but I thought it was best to review for those who haven't been through this countless times before. About the three short men and the short haired woman, I don't think they were actually aware that the play was part of Olaf's plan and might not have even known that he's evil (Unlike the wart-faced man, they didn't flee with the rest of the theater troupe) Also, the assortment of people that couldn't be seen promised to be just as frightening. Warty might've been at the dinner party and most likely is frightening, but I don't think the three short men and short haired woman were either there or scary. Like the wart-faced man, the assortment of people are not mentioned again and could be just some of his friends (In a twisted sense) that might also be on the fire starting side. I'm not sure Warty was at the dinner party either or else either the Baudelaires or Lemony would've mentioned or at least hinted that.
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Post by colette on Jun 22, 2018 9:50:11 GMT -5
I am not sure. I didn't even decide which version to use in my fanfics. In my headcanon the wart-faced man is definetely capable of commiting arson. He burnt down one mansion ten years before TBB and that mansion belonged to that family which he personally knew and which trusted him( I guess this crime can be consider somewhat bigger for this reason), unlike Baudelaires whom he didn't know personally. So, yeah, I can definetely imagine him doing it.
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Post by nisforknowledge on Jun 22, 2018 12:46:23 GMT -5
Why is Sir even an option?
I mean, he smokes a lot is a terrible reason.
And Nero?
He’s a terrible violinist, not an arsonist.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Jun 22, 2018 13:37:08 GMT -5
I am not sure. I didn't even decide which version to use in my fanfics. In my headcanon the wart-faced man is definetely capable of commiting arson. He burnt down one mansion ten years before TBB and that mansion belonged to that family which he personally knew and which trusted him( I guess this crime can be consider somewhat bigger for this reason), unlike Baudelaires whom he didn't know personally. So, yeah, I can definetely imagine him doing it. Aha, interesting! So what is your headcanon of who the Wart-Faced Man is? What is his name, what is his motivation, what is his relationship to the Cantankerous Count?
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Post by colette on Jun 22, 2018 15:24:26 GMT -5
My headcanon is that he is competent minion and Olaf genuinely respects him. Olaf also doesn't want to risk WFW's life because values his intelligence. This is why doesn't want to risk him in the dangerous task. The wart-faced man is VFD villain. He is very greedy in my headcanon.
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Post by Foxy on Nov 10, 2018 12:45:04 GMT -5
My computer tells me this poll has expired or been locked, but I would vote for another volunteer. After finishing a rereading of the series, I do not think Count Olaf started the Baudelaire mansion on fire. He seems very incredulous at the prospect when the Baudelaires confront him in TE, and at that point, he would have no reason to deny burning down their home. I would think if he did it, he would want to brag about it. But he makes it sound so completely outlandish that he did it that it makes me wonder if not only did Count Olaf not do it, but neither did any of the "bad guys."
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 10, 2018 14:55:46 GMT -5
I think I did it, guys. Sorry.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Nov 10, 2018 15:05:50 GMT -5
I think I did it, guys. Sorry. Really? I thought Stanley Kubrick faked the whole thing on a soundstage?
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Post by Dante on Nov 10, 2018 17:06:42 GMT -5
My computer tells me this poll has expired or been locked, It turns out that I have the power to open polls again, and so I have done so.
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Post by Foxy on Mar 7, 2019 11:02:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry to drag up an old topic, but I am jumping on the Esme bandwagon. I have been rereading TUA lately, and everything seems to match up. She read an article in The Daily Punctilio by Geraldine Julienne about Jerome purchasing the penthouse at 667 Dark Avenue. She wrote to Geraldine Julienne, asking her for more information. Geraldine Julienne tells her where to find Jerome. Esme meets him at the Veritable French Diner, and somehow she convinces him to marry her after only one evening. Esme obviously has a score to settle with Beatrice for Beatrice stealing the sugarbowl from her, so the reason she marries Jerome is to gain access to the penthouse and the secret passageway attached to the penthouse leading to the Baudelaire mansion, so she can sneak through the secret passageway and start the Baudelaire mansion on fire. The Baudelaire parents must have seen this coming. They would have received the invitation to Jerome's wedding, and perhaps this is why they sent the children to the beach that day.
Except now I just further read into the chapter, and Jacques is writing the letter to Jerome after the accident at the Lucky Smells Lumbermill. But maybe there was an accident before the accident with Dr. Orwell? Neither article mentions Dr. Orwell by name. There are other clues in the letter to allude to this theory not working, but not necessarily. Jacques found a couplet in what I am presuming is the Village of Fowl Devotees, but the Quagmires obviously can't be in V.F.D. before Esme and Jerome get married because Esme and Jerome were already married when the Quagmires were in the elevator at 667 Dark Avenue.
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Post by Dante on Mar 8, 2019 4:22:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry to drag up an old topic, but I am jumping on the Esme bandwagon. I have been rereading TUA lately, and everything seems to match up. She read an article in The Daily Punctilio by Geraldine Julienne about Jerome purchasing the penthouse at 667 Dark Avenue. She wrote to Geraldine Julienne, asking her for more information. Geraldine Julienne tells her where to find Jerome. Esme meets him at the Veritable French Diner, and somehow she convinces him to marry her after only one evening. Esme obviously has a score to settle with Beatrice for Beatrice stealing the sugarbowl from her, so the reason she marries Jerome is to gain access to the penthouse and the secret passageway attached to the penthouse leading to the Baudelaire mansion, so she can sneak through the secret passageway and start the Baudelaire mansion on fire. The Baudelaire parents must have seen this coming. They would have received the invitation to Jerome's wedding, and perhaps this is why they sent the children to the beach that day. Except now I just further read into the chapter, and Jacques is writing the letter to Jerome after the accident at the Lucky Smells Lumbermill. But maybe there was an accident before the accident with Dr. Orwell? Neither article mentions Dr. Orwell by name. There are other clues in the letter to allude to this theory not working, but not necessarily. Jacques found a couplet in what I am presuming is the Village of Fowl Devotees, but the Quagmires obviously can't be in V.F.D. before Esme and Jerome get married because Esme and Jerome were already married when the Quagmires were in the elevator at 667 Dark Avenue. The clues you mention certainly come from especially ambiguous parts of the U.A., and the truth is we just don't know. My take has always been that Esmé and Jerome's marriage is clearly indicated as being to secure control of the passageway to the Baudelaire mansion; but even if this took place before the beginning of ASoUE, it might simply have been to eliminate the passage as an escape route, more than to employ it as an arsonist route. The accident at Lucky Smells Lumbermill mentioned is very mysterious and doesn't appear to line up with Dr. Orwell's death, which was indeed an accident and not directly attributable to Olaf and his associates. This, I think, is an instance of the clues quite deliberately pointing in a lot of directions, and you are given liberty to put them together in whatever order you want.
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