The Seer
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Post by The Seer on Aug 30, 2018 15:50:24 GMT -5
Kurt Vonnegut. Arguably one of the greatest authors in fiction, American or global. His books reflect the wonderful surreality of life, and its horror and indifference. He shows us the meaning of life with a sparkler, flashing erratically and revealing new shadows on the cave wall of human existence. I would greatly enjoy discussing any of his books here with you all, veterans of Vonnegut or those who have only read one. Thank you for reading my humble thread. Attachments:
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Post by Reba on Aug 30, 2018 18:07:22 GMT -5
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The Seer
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Post by The Seer on Aug 31, 2018 3:15:04 GMT -5
Oh, you don't like Vonnegut?
Care to dicuss?
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The Seer
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Post by The Seer on Aug 31, 2018 11:03:30 GMT -5
I read Slaughterhouse V a while ago. I really enjoyed his writing style, but beyond that, the book is wonderful on a conceptual level. I loved the way the book attempts to emulate the type of “story” the aliens tell - where you see everything at once, and get a feeling about the totality of the story, instead of being limited to linear storytelling. It’s neat when the way a book is written is just as integral to the story as what is written. I feel like a lot of books don’t take that into account. Also, I love the recurring, almost cyclical parts. “Why you? Why anybody?” is up there with “Are you? Are you who I think you are?” from the Penultimate Peril in terms of things I’ll never get out of my head. (For some reason this is in the quote, not sure why... Quisby did not say the following. I did.)I know exactly what you mean, his grasp of time is incredible! Have you read Sirens Of Titan? The Tralfmadorians are back in that one, in a bit of a roundabout way. The story is linear, but jumps time in ways that are disorienting even though you know exactly were you will be next. I would call it my favourite, but it depends how recently I have read Cat's Cradle, or Breakfast Of Champions.
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Post by Reba on Aug 31, 2018 13:34:57 GMT -5
Oh, you don't like Vonnegut? Care to dicuss? i don't like my novels poisoned with salmonella-teeming genre tropes, whimsy and satire, (that's Undercooked) all written in the dated hackery of a 1950s Midwestern teenager. i always found it ironical that the pea-brain point he tries(?) to make in harrison bergeron is actually most applicable to his own works, as far as catering to idiots goes.
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The Seer
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Post by The Seer on Aug 31, 2018 14:46:55 GMT -5
Genre tropes? That word probably is the furthest possible from describing Vonnegut. Not a single one of his plots is a trope. Pea-brain plot in Harrison Bergeron? How so? Please clarify. Could you clarify your point about his writing style?
Also- sorry- ironical isn't a word.
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Post by Reba on Aug 31, 2018 17:07:09 GMT -5
if his books didn't use science fiction, dystopia, turd etc. tropes then no one could possibly categorize them, as Genre's existence is a collection of tropes. and yet we all know what genres he belongs in, other than the lost souls who think genre fiction can be literature?
i never said the word Plots as i couldn't care less about them nor how loopy his happen to be. tropes are elements within the plot, harrison bergeron makes a pea-brain point. could you clarify what clarification you need? you should know his texts better than me. ironical is a word
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Aug 31, 2018 17:28:58 GMT -5
sorry to barge in on a debate i don't have a stake in, but other than the lost souls who think genre fiction can be literature? what flippin' era are you from? genre writers like jim thompson, dashiell hammett, raymond chandler, or stanislaw lem have long been recognized as literary giants. I'd wager vonnegut being more often than not among these authors on people's lists. personally, i find reserving the term literature exclusively for "high lit" ridiculous in the first place; something you seemed to recognize re: the term "art" before. disappointing
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Post by Reba on Aug 31, 2018 18:11:59 GMT -5
genre writers like jim thompson, dashiell hammett, raymond chandler, or stanislaw lem have long been recognized as literary giants. yeah, and bob dylan is a literary giant now too, obviously the popular conception of literature is not directed by me. anyway, i don't see what's so contradictory about my old post there. i'll still call vonnegut's books art if you want. some are genre fiction, some are literature, all are art. just because i think genre fiction and literature are mutually exclusive doesn't mean i think one is automatically good. i just think an impoverished work of literature is still often worthwhile: i put one V book in my mild-mannered lit list (mother night) even though i don't personally like it.
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The Seer
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Post by The Seer on Aug 31, 2018 18:37:04 GMT -5
Your point is valid, although I disagree. I believe that Vonnegut's use of tropes is intentional, and his unique take on them is refreshing and well done.
Except for one thing.
Ironical is a word, but an archaic one that. You are correct on that point.
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Post by Teleram on Aug 31, 2018 21:36:29 GMT -5
Yscolan, bud, you have to type your response to Quisby after the "[/quote]".
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Post by Reba on Aug 31, 2018 22:15:13 GMT -5
Your point is valid, although I disagree. I believe that Vonnegut's use of tropes is intentional, and his unique take on them is refreshing and well done. of course it's intentional, otherwise he wouldn't be able to write non-genre stuff, which he did. he uses genre trappings because it makes his dumb sociopolitical points (and the basic facets of literature) more accessible to the Great Unwashed. on top of that he uses grating humor and the juvenile diction that i've mentioned. aliens &c in a funny new context may be refreshing if you're used to consuming a worse trash, created without even self-awareness, but i think you'll find the only truly refreshing experience is a Prose without any such elements in it a'tall
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The Seer
Reptile Researcher
Hoping that they were telling the truth.
Posts: 48
Likes: 7
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Post by The Seer on Sept 1, 2018 17:21:35 GMT -5
Teleram, quisby didn't quote me. Or if they did, the quote was deleted. If it was, sorry quisby!
Bear, if you are going to use any argument with the words "Great Unwashed", I can no longer take you seriously. That is an argument used to place oneself in a higher class of person, and is frankly quite repellent. I'm sure that isn't your intention, but I had to bring it up. I disagree with you calling his points "dumb". He has some excellent ideas, especially in Sirens of Titan.
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Post by Teleram on Sept 1, 2018 17:39:17 GMT -5
Yscolan, I meant like so: I read Slaughterhouse V a while ago. I really enjoyed his writing style, but beyond that, the book is wonderful on a conceptual level. I loved the way the book attempts to emulate the type of “story” the aliens tell - where you see everything at once, and get a feeling about the totality of the story, instead of being limited to linear storytelling. It’s neat when the way a book is written is just as integral to the story as what is written. I feel like a lot of books don’t take that into account. Also, I love the recurring, almost cyclical parts. “Why you? Why anybody?” is up there with “Are you? Are you who I think you are?” from the Penultimate Peril in terms of things I’ll never get out of my head. (For some reason this is in the quote, not sure why... Quisby did not say the following. I did.)I know exactly what you mean, his grasp of time is (...etc, etc)
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Post by Reba on Sept 1, 2018 17:44:33 GMT -5
Teleram, quisby didn't quote me. Or if they did, the quote was deleted. If it was, sorry quisby! Bear, if you are going to use any argument with the words "Great Unwashed", I can no longer take you seriously. That is an argument used to place oneself in a higher class of person, and is frankly quite repellent. I'm sure that isn't your intention, but I had to bring it up. I disagree with you calling his points "dumb". He has some excellent ideas, especially in Sirens of Titan. sory, i did not realize you were a greasy boy yourself
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