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Post by countadrian on Oct 31, 2018 23:43:08 GMT -5
So, I thought it would be nice to discuss this, now that we have cracked the code. But in a separate thread from the book’s, so that other members don’t get spoiled.
The code goes:
TWO SETS OF FRIENDS JUST OUT OF REACH WILL MEET AGAIN ON BRINY BEACH.
So, some thoughts:
- Why “just out of reach” ? It’s a very vague, weird phrase. How can they be out of reach if they’re going to meet again? Out of whose reach? - It’s a couplet. So, the Quagmires and Baudelaires seems obvious.... but what if it’s not about them? - If it is about them, I really hope it doesn’t end on a “happy ending”, because that would be a complete betrayal. If they meet again, it’ll have to be joyful, sure... but I just hope they leave the mystery of “what’s next?” still there. Like, they meet, happiness and tears. Then the Quagmires say “we need to tell you what happened to us on the way”. And they leave who knows where. Something like that. If it’s just “awww we missed you so much!!”, it’ll be terrible. But then again, I don’t think they would betray the books escence like that. - Will this even be on the show? Because there needs to be an explanation as to why the Quagmires are still alive and not eaten by the Great Unkown, if they’re taking that route. At least something vague, but resurrection is not something Lemony Snicket does without giving a bit of credibility...
That’s all I can think of, for now...
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Nov 1, 2018 0:13:58 GMT -5
So, I thought it would be nice to discuss this, now that we have cracked the code. But in a separate thread from the book’s, so that other members don’t get spoiled. The code goes: TWO SETS OF FRIENDS JUST OUT OF REACH WILL MEET AGAIN ON BRINY BEACH. So, some thoughts: - Why “just out of reach” ? It’s a very vague, weird phrase. How can they be out of reach if they’re going to meet again? Out of whose reach? They're out of each others' reach. [Also, the line has to rhyme with "beach".]
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Post by Dante on Nov 1, 2018 4:43:06 GMT -5
My distinct impression is that it's not going to appear on the show; if it did, there would be no point in the coded message, and especially none in people telling us not to crack it until we'd seen Season 3. It's basically just "BEATRICE SANK", only in some respects reversed. People may find it amusing to read that my initial interpretation of the fourth word in the code was "FINDERS", at which point I thought "Hmm, that doesn't sound right"; I had to put it in an anagram engine to pick up what else it could be. We don't have friends here.
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Post by deathtentaclesandpip on Nov 1, 2018 7:57:51 GMT -5
Given that the question is "What happens after the end of the end?" or something like that, I'm assuming that it won't happen on the show.
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Post by Hermes on Nov 1, 2018 8:36:06 GMT -5
I don't think it has to be a happy ending as such. We've long since had strong reasons to think that the B's survived, despite the sinking of their boat, but their lives no doubt remained unfortunate; if the Q's survive they can join in the misfortune. The actual reunion is happy, no doubt, but it's not as if their lives were completely devoid of happiness anyway.
The real puzzle, I think, is how the Q's might survive. If the Great Unknown turns out to be a Beast, as some evidence suggests, it's hard to see how one could survive being swallowed by it; if it remains Unknown, as we're now hearing, one might survive, but only in a way that is Unknown.
And what should we make of 'just out of reach'. It sounds as if they are still out of reach when meeting. The conjectured 'once out of reach' made more sense. Could it be that they don't actually meet as we'd understand it, but rather communicate across a barrier of some kind?
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Nov 1, 2018 8:51:23 GMT -5
but their lives no doubt remained unfortunate; Not necessarily. Sunny seems like she'd be pretty happy with a cooking show on the wireless, for one thing. But beyond that, while it's not by far the only possible interpretation, some people would argue that the fact that the series of books named A Series of Unfortunate Events ends at The End means The End was the end of that series of unfortunate events. The Baudelaires' lives afterwards wouldn't (couldn't) have been blissful and perfect and happy-ever-after, but it's a valid interpretation to assume that no misfortune on the level of what we're shown in the books happened to them again. The real puzzle, I think, is how the Q's might survive. If the Great Unknown turns out to be a Beast, as some evidence suggests, it's hard to see how one could survive being swallowed by it; if it remains Unknown, as we're now hearing, one might survive, but only in a way that is Unknown. See the speculation on the other thread, that either it's a Job/Pinocchio situation (why not?), or the Great Unknown is a Bombinating Beast- shaped submarine akin to the Carmelita's squiddiness.
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Post by Hermes on Nov 1, 2018 9:37:58 GMT -5
but their lives no doubt remained unfortunate; Not necessarily. Sunny seems like she'd be pretty happy with a cooking show on the wireless, for one thing. But beyond that, while it's not by far the only possible interpretation, some people would argue that the fact that the series of books named A Series of Unfortunate Events ends at The End means The End was the end of that series of unfortunate events. The Baudelaires' lives afterwards wouldn't (couldn't) have been blissful and perfect and happy-ever-after, but it's a valid interpretation to assume that no misfortune on the level of what we're shown in the books happened to them again. Oh, to be sure, there's no in-story reason their lives have to remain unfortunate. It just seems likely that they would, given that they are created by Lemony Snicket. (I think you mean Jonah.) I started that speculation, but as Dante pointed out, it doesn't really fit the BB as we know it from ATWQ. The idea of a BB-shaped submarine would explain a lot, though.
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Post by Dante on Nov 1, 2018 9:59:35 GMT -5
My take on "just out of reach" is that it's the least important part of the message; it's there for the rhyme and meter but isn't particularly meaningful. If it relates to anything, it's the way the Baudelaires and Quagmires' paths kept on crossing but without any of their reunions yet being particularly lasting. The ending of TVV in particular says to me "just out of reach," as the problem was more or less literally one of reach. But it's also possible that Season 3 will include fresh scenes where the Quagmires (or any other sets of... finders) come ever-so-close to joining the Baudelaires again - and then don't.
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emf3rd
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 40
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Post by emf3rd on Dec 7, 2018 0:50:07 GMT -5
So, just curious if this has also been discussed, but on page 116 (the page with the spyglass) there seems to be a message hidden in the crazy language on the spyglass. Is this an actual, second, hidden message? I don't think it is, but just curious.
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Post by Dante on Dec 7, 2018 3:21:55 GMT -5
There are barely any repeating characters, so I took those lines as representing the full script sets for the various dials they proposed for the spyglass prop.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Dec 10, 2018 14:16:17 GMT -5
I agree with what others have said that 'just out of reach' isn't too significant: I think it really just means they've been unable to get to each other for some time, even when they were supposed to (for instance: the meeting on Thursday at the Hotel D).
Personally I absolutely love the message, because the Baudelaires & Quagmires meeting again is something I've always thought and hoped would happen, but just to have it confirmed like this is wonderful. I did consider that perhaps it could refer to someone else but I couldn't really think who else would fit ... 'two sets' really seems to imply the Bs & Qs. I also don't think this implies a happy ending of sunshine and roses; partly because I think it's pretty clear this reunion won't actually be shown onscreen, and partly because their reunion doesn't mean a happily ever after. I think the Baudelaires' and Quagmires' lives would likely be filled with many things: mystery, misfortune, misery, adventure, and I believe happiness as well. But whatever happens, whatever they face, at least they can do it together.
It will be fascinating to see how the Quagmires last moments in the series are portrayed given this message ... There's a lot of room for speculation as to how they survive.
When I began decoding the message, though, I was originally quite worried because I'd figured out 'two' and 'friends' and my mind immediately went to the tragic solution and I was certain that the code would reveal only 2 of the Quagmires survived or something like that. I'm very glad I was wrong!
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Jan 8, 2019 23:18:01 GMT -5
So what does this mean after all
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Post by Dante on Jan 9, 2019 4:47:44 GMT -5
It seems pretty straightforward. The Netflix version of The End doesn't present us with the ambiguous deaths of much of the friendly cast, and the coded message is giving us the right to believe that they subsequently all met up again at a location we know the Baudelaires eventually visited.
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Jan 10, 2019 10:26:49 GMT -5
I also spent a few minutes wondering about 'finders' before realising.
I don't experience the message a shocking amendment to the ending, which is fortunate, because while a clarification of the ending would exhilarate me briefly, it would sacrifice the ambiguity that matters so much in the book, which would feel kinda like an affront to the relative faithfulness the show itself has shown the books. Fortunately, this message is in no way short on ambiguities. Which two sets of friends does it refer to? Are all of them friends with each other, or is the friendship internal to each set? Are they literally or figuratively 'just out of reach'? And will they still be so once they meet? Whose reach is it, anyway? I know this most likely describes the Baudelaires and the Quagmires, especially since we already know that Violet would visit Briny Beach a third time (in the book canon, at least), but I think the sheer amount of unknowns here is terribly appropriate.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Jan 10, 2019 13:43:39 GMT -5
(in the book canon, at least) This is reflected in show-canon per TE, where Beatrice II begins to tell Lemony about the encounter with the Female Finnish Pirates, which happened "after [the Baudelaires] left the Island, but before their return to Briny Beach".
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