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Post by Brian on Oct 17, 2005 15:47:00 GMT -5
And to Brian...welllll...how long has it been since you read the first book? Maybe you've changed. Your opinion (I'm guessing, cuz mine does) changes over time of certain people, especially as you get older. For instance, when I read B2 and B3, I didn't care that Monty died. But in the movie, I did. Well, mostly because I liked the actor and Uncle Monty in the books drove me insane, but do you get the point?! Kay. I'm done now. Thanks for your response, Grace, I appreciate it. I agree with your points; however, I have read the first book recently and maintain my opinion that there is a high difference between early-series Olaf and late-series Olaf. To everyone else: you are looking into this the wrong way, or at least definitely not the way I intended when I began this thread. The reason for Olaf's laugh is not that he was stuck in a submarine, or that he was drunk, but because ~~Handler wrote his character that way.~~ For once on these boards, we are looking at the books for what they are: books. Not a true story. There doesn't have to be a plot-related reason for Olaf's laugh. Now, I'm all for artistic liscence, and I'm aware that Handler's books are his to write. I'm not trying to tell him how they are to be written. I'm merely attempting to express my dismay for an aspect of recent books and am questioning your opinions.
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Post by Sugary Snicket on Oct 18, 2005 8:18:24 GMT -5
Once again, I feel compelled to agree with you on certain points, but, once again, Olaf is becoming less menacing to the Baudelaires. They are learning more about him and his weaknesses. He's still a threat, but not one that they cannot handle. The sinister duo is what they most likely fear now, although they did not specifically do anything TO the Baudelaires.
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Post by RockSunner on Jan 30, 2006 0:37:44 GMT -5
In my opinion, Olaf has been played for comedy from book 2 on. Other than the first book, when has he presented an actual workable plan for stealing the Baudeliare fortune, for example?
But in TPP, he comes into his own in a new way. He has actually done something to the Baudelaires: he has led them into evil. They have done something we could never imagine them doing at the start of the series.
I look forward to seeing how this develops in the last book.
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Post by CountOlaf on Feb 1, 2006 2:45:13 GMT -5
I always thought CountOlaf was smart, slippery, cunning and cruel all at the same time. He was smart, an aspiring actor of sorts, and always managed to get away from law enforcement. He was my book rolemodel, to say the most.
Then I read Book 12. It potrayed my favorite character as stupid. Someone who couldn't even spell. SOMEONE WHO WAS AN EXPERT ARSONIST, BUT FORGOT TO BURN DOWN THE FRICKEN HOTEL AND HAD TO BE REMINDED BY A BABY WHO CANT EVEN TALK IN PROPER F***ING SENTENCES!!!!!!!!!
God.
-CO
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Post by Beatlesque on Feb 1, 2006 18:36:17 GMT -5
I always thought CountOlaf was smart, slippery, cunning and cruel all at the same time. He was smart, an aspiring actor of sorts, and always managed to get away from law enforcement. He was my book rolemodel, to say the most. Then I read Book 12. It potrayed my favorite character as stupid. Someone who couldn't even spell. SOMEONE WHO WAS AN EXPERT ARSONIST, BUT FORGOT TO BURN DOWN THE FRICKEN HOTEL AND HAD TO BE REMINDED BY A BABY WHO CANT EVEN TALK IN PROPER F***ING SENTENCES!!!!!!!!! God. -CO I so have got to agree. I thought Olaf was an evil mastermind. But when he said he forgot to BURN DOWN the hotel. It made Olaf look really stupid when Sunny reminded him to BURN IT DOWN. Also the spelling thing. No one and I mean no adult can be that dumb. Well some...but Olaf no way!
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Post by Sugary Snicket on Feb 3, 2006 20:32:30 GMT -5
I think that perhaps they are switching roles a bit. The Baudelaires are learning that you cannot survive on charm and wit alone. You may have to make sacrifices. And Olaf is learning that he can perhaps keep eluding the police, but he can't elude his true feelings about himself. Yes, I'm implying that, contrary to popular belief, Olaf actually has FEELINGS. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but.....
And we, as the readers, are learning that there truely isn't such a thing as black and white: Only shades of grey. The so-called "noble" side might do something villainous, and the so-called "evil" side might do something good. And both could fall back on their words, weather the side promises to start fires or to put them out. The books are teaching us about choices, sacrifices, and cause-and-effect.
At least that's how I see it.
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Post by twistedbrain on Feb 3, 2006 20:37:56 GMT -5
I agree with Orphaned Hope! I'm still going to call you that.
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Post by Sugary Snicket on Feb 4, 2006 21:51:42 GMT -5
You may. I dug up an old username of mine and thought about changing my username, so i did.
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Post by RockSunner on Feb 7, 2006 1:47:50 GMT -5
I don't fault Olaf for failing to think of burning down the hotel at that point. He had a much more potent weapon in hand that would have killed many more people far more efficiently -- the mushrooms.
Where he fell down as a villain this time was letting himself be tricked by Sunny into his old arson habits. This prevented him from using the mushrooms, exactly as she intended.
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Post by Sugary Snicket on Feb 7, 2006 18:42:18 GMT -5
Sunny's one smart baby.
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Post by Beatlesque on Feb 9, 2006 23:24:57 GMT -5
I guess. It's just a little odd that Olaf can't spell. I know he's stupid. But really.
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Post by RockSunner on Feb 13, 2006 0:43:42 GMT -5
Handler has established that the unquiet side of the schism doesn't value literacy. For example, Esme says in TSS "Being well-read won't help you in this world... I knew that silly book would never help me so I threw it into the fireplace."
Olaf takes that attitude to the logical extreme and so he has a contempt for spelling. It makes me wonder how he came up with the "Marvelous Marriage" plan, which required knowledge of marriage laws. I'll say that perhaps the Sinster Duo helped him. As judges, they must read law-books at least.
An even more serious flaw is his loss of the knowledge of elementary physics. In TBB, he knew that a drop from a 30-foot tower was a serious threat. In TPP, he expects to survive a drop from a building that must be at least 100 feet tall. Maybe Olaf is losing his mind. I wonder if he will admit Violet saved his life when she rigged that drag-chute for his boat.
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Post by ice on Feb 16, 2006 14:56:03 GMT -5
I think the real problem is just that Olaf is turning into an idiot because of Esme. Before he met her, he actually had some pretty good plans, right? Ever since (especially since TSS) he's come up with some pretty stupid ideas. Or should I say, Esme has come up with some pretty stupid ideas. Maybe she figured Olaf can do whatever needs to be done?
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Post by lauren on Feb 17, 2006 4:08:57 GMT -5
Awww...Esme ain't turning him into an idiot. Personally, I think the only witty plan Olaf came up with was on the 1st occasion with the marriage, that was some good plotting.
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Post by labelle64 on Feb 23, 2006 0:12:26 GMT -5
Oh, I certainly agree with you! The series has gone downhill quite dramatically since book 11. The most obvious annoyances are certainly those that have been mentioned time after time here: Olaf's new, less evil ways and irritating laugh (although if I remember correctly, the irritating laugh was aborted in book 12), and Widdershins, whould not have been any more annoying! But I must add and discuss.
The detail I must as is that the erratic change in locations, and how poorly they have been handled. I believe that imagining the books taking place in strange locations such as underwater, in grottos, and in fancy hotels with dangerous missions are wonderful things to be able to dream up BEFORE the book is released. However, reading about them is a much less rich experience because they are not executed in a very Lemony Snicket manner. In other words, they are stail and dull, and oftentimes become quite boring to read about. I remember how Olaf's house, the Reptile Room and it's extensive library on all kinds of reptiles, Aunt Jesephine's hazardous abode, the baron woods of Paltryville, the austere acadamy that was Prufrock, 667 Dark Avenue, the Village of Fowl Devotees, Heimlich Hospital, the Calligary Carnival, and the Mortmain Mountains were great settings for these stories because they were all so fantastical and whimsical and dream-like, but so dark and filled with nasty people. But the settings from books 11 and 12 were just plain boring to read about because they lacked the richness, the interest, and (it would be a crime not to add) the darkness of the places previously mentioned. The characters just do not fit in these new areas because, while the characters are generally interesting (although losing their lust), the atmospheres are not interesting at all.
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