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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jan 18, 2008 21:42:32 GMT -5
What type of movies, TV shows, and music do you think existed in the ASOUE Universe? Do you think rock and roll music existed? What yea do you imagine the evens of the series taking place?
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Post by Philosophy on Jan 18, 2008 21:55:37 GMT -5
Based on the Illustrations made by Brett Helquist, I believe the Series might have taken place possibly ranging from the 1950's to the 1970's, though it could be later.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jan 18, 2008 22:49:33 GMT -5
I personally imagine the series taking place from 1981to 1982, but it could probably take place any time after 1950.
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Post by Dante on Jan 19, 2008 12:08:16 GMT -5
Since this is a question of when the series takes place and what its setting is like, I'm moving it to Perilous Places; have a browse and you may find much of interest to you.
I think that the series takes place in a composite setting made up of many different influences, but largely those that invoke a sort of vaguely Victorian or Dickensian old-times feel. There are glimpses of the modern day, though.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jan 19, 2008 13:13:28 GMT -5
Thanks! I've been finding a lot of interesting things here. From what I can make out, a lot of the modern conveniences do seem to exist - but much of the styles and such seem to have an old-times feel to it. One of these days, I'll probably be able to form my theory on when the point of convergience would be, what caused things to take a different term.
Being interested in time travel and alternate realities, I do find the setting to be about the most fascinating part of series. I don't mean to imply that time travel is involved, of course - but it's a very related concept. My guess would be that the point of convergience is somewhere around the early 20th century.
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Post by EyeAndInsignia on Apr 5, 2008 13:26:42 GMT -5
I would've gone with sometime in the Late 70's or early 80's
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Post by rossvanderh on Dec 10, 2008 22:21:17 GMT -5
The series is purposefully anachronistic, with 1910's era clothes as well as halogen lamps.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 9, 2009 12:26:16 GMT -5
I think the point of divergence has to be earlier than the 20th Century to allow for there being a King of Arizona.
One very noticeable difference between ASOUE and the world as we know it is that Lemony always uses a typewriter. The only computer in the ASOUE universe seems to be the 'advanced' computer at Prufrock Prep, and we don't know how advanced that is (though it has a screen, which means that in our world it must have been developed in the 1970s at the earliest).
Going back to the original question, do we know that TV exists in the world of ASOUE? They have movies (Zombies in the Snow) and radio (on which Sunny appeared) but I don't recall any references to TV.
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Post by Dante on Jan 9, 2009 12:59:28 GMT -5
I'm sure the question's been brought up before, and I'd be mystified if there were no references to TV in the series at all - I'd expect some of them in the Squalor penthouse, for example. But no mentions immediately reach my mind, and a quick look through some of my files doesn't turn up anything. If they have movies and computers advanced enough to have monitors, television doesn't seem unlikely to exist, but maybe Handler doesn't like it - or there's just never a good place to bring it up. In terms of actual pop culture, I think you'd probably be best off avoiding any particularly modern music, and indeed anything too modern in general - but if something seems like it comes from a few decades to a century or so ago, that's about the right sort of feel. (Re: The point of divergence, I wouldn't think of it from that angle - if you're trying to build a practical set of rules for the series as an AU, go ahead, but I imagine Handler just threw together elements that fit the genre of the book, with the occasional spanner in the works like the advanced computer and the conveniences of the Last Chance General Store. It's parallel to our world, but attempting to link it to any real time period would be wide of the mark, in my opinion. But that's off-topic.)
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Post by Hermes on Jan 11, 2009 14:02:31 GMT -5
I can well imagine him not liking TV - if the Baudelaires had spent their childhood watching TV, they would not have had so much time for inventing, researching and biting things.
Edit: aha! Mr Remora told a story in which he watched television. So television does exist. I still think it can't be as pervasive as it is in our world - for one thing, if it were, people woudn't rely so much on the Daily Punctilio as a source of news.
(On the other thing, I actually agree with you. I just meant to say - in response to Quagmire44's comment above - that if you see it as an alternate history with a definite point of divergence you have to put it quite a long way back. But I think it's better to see it just as a world which is quite like ours, but different in some, unpredictable, respects - something of which there is of course a long tradtion in children's literature.)
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Post by hieitouyaicedemon on Jan 13, 2009 13:48:58 GMT -5
It's kind of odd how many of the technological references (the advanced computer, Mr. Remora's television) appear in TAA, isn't it? Maybe it's just me, but it almost seems like Lemony is trying to steer us away from technological answers. Think about the Titanic. It sank because it was too reliant on technology (they ignored warnings of icebergs because they were so focused on getting to their destination - depending only on radar and the reputation of an "unsinkable" ship. Obviously many people died due to the lack of lifeboats, but it should be noted that the crash never would have happened in the first place had they only heeded the warnigs.)
To me, it seems as though Lemony (through use of the computer, not the TV, I'm sure) was trying to warn us about technology. Nero was so sure of his computer system he ignored the evidence in front of him (of course, he was also just a terrible, selfish man.)
I think the computer in TAA had less to do with the actual time frame of the series, and more to do with Lemony's purpose - a warning about reliance on technology, and the consequences such a dependency could result in.
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Post by Dante on Jan 13, 2009 14:31:24 GMT -5
I think that's the sort of response I'd like to see more of - technology and cultural allusions being drawn not to pinpoint any specific time period but to reinforce themes and character. In the advanced computer example, the technology serves the role of an adult, as well as serving one serving the role of an adult - its methods of dealing with the world present it with one solution and it's unwilling to deal with any objections. It's dogmatic - it doesn't accept the possibility of its own error. Whether this applies to technology in other situations is something that might be interesting to analyse. Obviously, the self-sustaining hot air mobile home is a mirror of Hector, created as his tool - he wants to fly up high where there are no other people to bother him and never return. It doesn't say anything about the nature or role of technology in aSoUE's world, but it says a lot about Hector. The real challenge is the Last Chance General Store, though...
So to relate this to the topic of pop culture: I think what sort of movies, TV shows and music exist in the aSoUE world depend very much on who's speaking. The Baudelaire parents like their opera. Carmelita likes her ballet. Olaf adores the theatre. Their interests are dependent on their identity; therefore, for, say, TV to exist and be commented on, you need someone who's the sort of character to have views, positive or negative, on TV. It's not going to be there for no reason. Maybe.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 17, 2009 16:40:38 GMT -5
I think he sometimes does mention technology just as background, to provide a sense of the kind of world they are in, but then, far from dating it to a particular period, it makes it harder to date; the technology doesn't quite fit any actual period in history. I'm thinking of how, in the first book, they pass horse-drawn carriages and motorcycles when driving into the city, and how in TBL Beatrice takes a rickshaw to follow Lemony home from the library.
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Post by Dear Dairy on Jan 17, 2009 17:56:22 GMT -5
To me, the anachronistic nature of the book is mostly related to Handler's style of humor through incongruity and non-sequitur. We laugh because horse-drawn carriages and motorcycles seldom appear on the same street, and rickshaws are a completely unexpected mode of transportation in almost every circumstance.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 18, 2009 12:46:23 GMT -5
Strangely enough my city has rickshaws, though they generally appear late at night, when buses have stopped and taxis are prohibitively expensive. But I think you are right; it gives a sense of the incongruity of Snicket's world. (Another example is the reference in TPP to Beatrice, when pregnant, dancing to the phonograph. When did you last see a phonograph?)
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