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Post by Hermes on Jan 17, 2009 16:28:49 GMT -5
In THH, the Snicket File is originally referred to as 'the file on the Snicket fires' - presumably, fires that Lemony was accused of starting. The natural assumption would be that 'Snicket File' is short for that. So it's a file about a Snicket.
Later, however (I think in TSS, through Quigley) we are told that the file was compiled by Jacques and his siblings; so it's a file by the Snickets.
Of course, it could be both; then the name 'Snicket File' would be doubly appropriate. However, this does leave us with a puzzle; if the Snickets compiled it, why on earth did they deposit it in the Library of Records at Heimlich Hospital, of all places, where the authorities were easily able to get hold of it? Would it not have been more sensible to send it to the dairy, for instance, or to Dewey at the underwater library?
Out-of-story, I suspect, the likely explanation is that Handler changed his mind about exactly what the Snicket File was. But can anyone think of a good in-story explanation?
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Post by Dear Dairy on Jan 17, 2009 17:40:11 GMT -5
Is it a file of fires allegedly started by the Snickets, or fires that destroyed property belonging to the Snickets?
Perhaps the Snickets deposited the file in the HH believing it to be fireproof (heehee). Or perhaps they deposited it elsewhere (at the VFDairy, for instance) and some surreptitious person moved it to HH.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 17, 2009 17:59:36 GMT -5
Is it a file of fires allegedly started by the Snickets, or fires that destroyed property belonging to the Snickets? I think the first is more likely, because there were pictures of the Baudelaires in it, which suggests the Baudelaire fire was one of those it dealt with. I guess that's possible. If they were sensible they would have made more than one copy, and then putting one in a public archive while others were in private VFD archives would have made some sense. (Of course, perhaps they did - but Olaf doesn't seem to think so.)
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Post by Dante on Jan 18, 2009 3:54:47 GMT -5
In THH, Esmé originally refers to the Snicket File as "the Baudelaire file." The note on the file itself, and Esmé later, call it the Snicket file, though. Since we know that Lemony is wanted for arsons that were actually committed by Olaf, I am comfortably convinced that the Snicket file is an investigation into fires allegedly committed by at least Lemony; it's a little biased for him and his siblings to be working on it, but they would be expects on the subject matter. Given this, and given the way the Snicket File is sometimes referred to as the Baudelaire File, this suggests to me that the catalyst for the creation of the Snicket File was the destruction of the Baudelaire Mansion - which Lemony was probably accused of starting.
As for why it's in the Library of Records: Possibly this is a case of V.F.D. being overconfident about the safety of libraries and knowledge, in addition to narrative convenience. Not that the authorities actually took the Snicket File; the note on the file referring to an "official investigation" is a little disingenuous, as we know it ended up in the Mortmain Mountains headquarters. Quite possibly the Library of Records was used as a neutral location to pass it to the official agency of the V.F.D. In fact, now that I think about it, I intend to subscribe to this theory. Let's say that whichever Snicket sibling completed the file was unable to pass it directly to V.F.D. due to personal circumstances, so they arranged to have it delivered to the Library of Records, where V.F.D. proper would later reacquire it for their "official investigation" to fact-check and ultimately bring to the police evidence of Lemony's innocence / the villains' guilt.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 19, 2009 6:33:01 GMT -5
Where are we told that it was at the Mortmain Mountains HQ? When the man with beard but no hair and the woman with hair but no beard produce it, they do not tell us where they got it. I had supposed that it had indeed been removed for an official investigation, and had come to the MWBBNH and the WWHBNB in their capacity as high court justices.
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Post by Dante on Jan 19, 2009 9:01:11 GMT -5
Fair point, hermes - I don't think it does say, now you mention it. I always assumed they picked it up when they were raiding the Mortmain Mountains headquarters, since at the time it was hard to tell where else they might have acquired it. It coming into their hands in their position as judges of the high court is entirely plausible - although that strikes me as something Handler came up with while writing TPP, and not before, in which case they would probably have found it in the headquarters. It's implied that they haven't read it yet (although it's ambiguous, you can easily ignore it), and it seems strange that they'd be carrying it around for quite some time without doing much more than checking it's all there. The sinister duo themselves say they burned down the V.F.D. library last of all the previous night - it seems entirely possible that they picked up the Snicket file there, burnt everything that wasn't of use, and were preparing to read it the next day when they encountered Olaf. You may go ahead with the High Court theory, though, if you prefer.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 19, 2009 12:49:15 GMT -5
I agree it's unlikely Handler had the High Court theory in mind when he wrote TSS. (It seems to me he probably changed his plans quite radically after TGG; the endings of both TSS and TGG seem to point in a direction very different from where we end up.) I'm not sure, though, that he had any other specific theory in mind; it's just mysterious, in the way so many things are, how they got the file, and when they turn out to be judges, it seems a reasonable explanation.
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Post by hieitouyaicedemon on Jan 19, 2009 12:56:21 GMT -5
Is it not possible there were multiple copies? I can't imagine the Snickets having faith enough that they would make only one. I can imagine several circumstances.
Imagine there was more than one copy - let's say two. One might have been sent to Heimlich, as few would guess such a file would be hidden in such a place. Then a second was sent to Dewey for his underwater library, but since that library is such a secret, it would exist only as a back-up in case the first was destroyed. But the first could be accessed by volunteers without revealing the secret of the sub-sub library. It's also fair to say it was well-hidden - not only in an unusual place, but in a giant library of records. Since it was known before as the Baudelaire file, it might have taken enemies a long time for enemies to figure it out as being called the Snicket File (remember, the Baudelaires only figured it out because Hal had read the first few paragraphs - the enemies only started calling it the Snicket File AFTER it was found.)
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Post by cwm on Jan 19, 2009 13:47:08 GMT -5
Is it not possible there were multiple copies? I can't imagine the Snickets having faith enough that they would make only one. I can imagine several circumstances. If they are, then they're irrelevant to the plot. Nobody ever mentions the possibility of another. The MWBBNH and WWHBNB seem very confident that the Snicket file that they own is the last problem they need to eradicate, too.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 19, 2009 15:33:51 GMT -5
They do - but are they right? Certainly the Snicket File is not the only file containing evidence of villainous activity: Dewey has a whole library full of evidence. It would not be surprising if that contained a copy of the Snicket file.
Of course, by the time we discover this, in TPP, we also learn that the MWBBNH and the WWHBNB don't really need to worry about it, because they are the judges to whom it is being presented. So with hindsight, it may be that their concern with the Snicket File is not so much with the evidence against them which it contains, as with what it can tell them about VFD. Of course, this isn't apparent at the time, probably because Handler hadn't yet decided it.
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Post by cwm on Jan 20, 2009 16:18:45 GMT -5
Dewey's library was a secret so only the Baudelaires, Dewey and Kit actually really knew about it, wasn't it? Or am I misremembering? If there is a copy there, then the Baudelaires are the only people still living who know the library actually exists, and they don't even know how to actually enter the library.
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Post by Dante on Jan 20, 2009 16:57:39 GMT -5
It's unclear how secret the library was. The Baudelaire parents and Ishmael knew about it, per The End, but Ishmael at least may not have known its actual location. Olaf and Esmé had heard rumours of Dewey Denouement, or someone, secretly cataloguing all of their villainy, but they certainly didn't know where. It's unclear if Justice Strauss and Jerome Squalor know where the catalogue is. And it's very hard to imagine Frank and Ernest not knowing at least about the existence of the underwater hotel, even if they didn't know it was used for cataloguing purposes. Lemony clearly knows it all. I wouldn't put my finger on any specifics about how secret Dewey and his library are.
As far as a copy of the Snicket File goes: I wouldn't bet on its existence. The Snickets are quite probably naive enough to think they wouldn't need one. However, in itself it may comprise copies of numerous pieces of evidence which had not previously been placed together. Conceivably Kit used Dewey's catalogue as a resource for researching the Snicket File.
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Post by Hermes on Jan 21, 2009 6:15:02 GMT -5
It seems likely that Hal knew, since he was helping Kit and Dewey with their researches; and I believe he survived the fire.
In the light of this, it's interesting that Lemony says there was a record of the trial in the underwater catalogue, considering that the trial happened after Dewey's death; someone must have carried on the work. (I would guess Hal, though we can't know that.)
Olaf's view is striking; he has heard of Dewey, but believes he is legendary, like unicorns or Giuseppe Verdi. It's plausible that rumours would leak out, given that Dewey and Kit were getting information from all the volunteers; but they seem to have managed to prevent people knowing for sure.
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Post by cwm on Jan 21, 2009 11:36:50 GMT -5
On what evidence, beyond the fact that he wasn't mentioned when the Baudelaires were visitng every floor, is the basis for Hal, a man with atrociously bad eyesight in extreme old age, surviving the fire? There really is very little basis for any character surviving the fire or not beyond the Prufrock Prep teachers.
Also, where does it say there's a record of the trial in the catalogue? That sounds familar.
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Post by Dante on Jan 21, 2009 11:48:27 GMT -5
Good point, cwm - Snicket seems to forget about Hal after Chapter Eleven, much as he seemed to forget about Phil after Book the Eleventh. I'd just assume they're in the same sorts of places they were when last seen. And the reference you're looking for is near the start of Chapter Eleven - right after Lemony mentions the account of an interpretation of sausages that went horribly wrong. Since Lemony pretty much says in the same passage that he knows how to access the catalogue, and since he says that the account of the interpretation of the law that went horribly wrong is als found in the remainder of TPP, I would assume that said account is an excerpt from his own writings.
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