foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 23, 2011 2:14:22 GMT -5
Well um, hello there. As you can probably tell, I'm new here. And well, if there's anything that I'm doing wrong, please let me know. (Yeah, um, this isn't an introduction thread... I just wanted to clear this up before I got started.) Anyway, I have a somewhat quick question... Well, my friends and I really want to film ourselves... acting out, I guess you could say, books 4-13 and put the videos on YouTube. It'd be a series of short videos for each book, and well, this is my main question: Would we need permission from someone to do this? If so, who? And might you any idea on how we could get in touch with them? I thought we might need to contact Mr. Handler... but I couldn't find his e-mail anywhere. Maybe HarperCollins? I'm not sure, but that's obvious, as that's why I'm posting this, haha. I mean, we'd be doing it just for fun, no profit in it for us or anything, but we just want to be sure. Well, thank you to anyone who might have any tips or information, and to anyone who bothered to read this.
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Post by Dante on Jul 23, 2011 4:21:51 GMT -5
My inkling, and this is just a personal opinion, is that you'd be fine so long as you weren't making a profit from the videos - which seems unlikely. If you did need permission, it would probably be from Mr. Handler, HarperCollins, or maybe Little, Brown & Co. (his new publishers). You could try either of the e-mail addresses here, although at least one of those is probably just going to give you an in-character auto-reply. But I would say that the project you have planned isn't going to infringe on copyright; you wouldn't be making any money, the material would be your own revision of scenario and dialogue, you wouldn't be making available for free or profit substantial portions of the text... you might even be better off trying not to draw attention to it from official sources. At worst you'd be asked to take down the videos, though. But I seriously think you should just go ahead and not worry about it. Good luck.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jul 23, 2011 8:29:52 GMT -5
If you're not trying to: promote anything for your own gain; follow the text word-for-word in your video (I suspect your version would be abridged, anyway); or give ASOUE or its movie a run for its money (which is highly unlikely); then it sounds to me what you've proposed is perfectly legal. If you're really worried about it, I'd refer you to sections 107 and 110 of the U.S. Copyright Laws. The latter deals with when performances are legal, and the former with when it's all right to use a work. Really, though, the worst case scenario is the YouTube removes your video.
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foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 23, 2011 9:23:24 GMT -5
My inkling, and this is just a personal opinion, is that you'd be fine so long as you weren't making a profit from the videos - which seems unlikely. If you did need permission, it would probably be from Mr. Handler, HarperCollins, or maybe Little, Brown & Co. (his new publishers). You could try either of the e-mail addresses here, although at least one of those is probably just going to give you an in-character auto-reply. But I would say that the project you have planned isn't going to infringe on copyright; you wouldn't be making any money, the material would be your own revision of scenario and dialogue, you wouldn't be making available for free or profit substantial portions of the text... you might even be better off trying not to draw attention to it from official sources. At worst you'd be asked to take down the videos, though. But I seriously think you should just go ahead and not worry about it. Good luck. If you're not trying to: promote anything for your own gain; follow the text word-for-word in your video (I suspect your version would be abridged, anyway); or give ASOUE or its movie a run for its money (which is highly unlikely); then it sounds to me what you've proposed is perfectly legal. If you're really worried about it, I'd refer you to sections 107 and 110 of the U.S. Copyright Laws. The latter deals with when performances are legal, and the former with when it's all right to use a work. Really, though, the worst case scenario is the YouTube removes your video. Alrighty, thank you both very much. Now, I can't wait to get started.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 23, 2011 9:59:01 GMT -5
But I would say that the project you have planned isn't going to infringe on copyright; . I'm not sure that's quite right - as I understand it, non-profit stuff can technically infringe on copyright (and nobody is sure in exactly what circumstances it does, because the 'fair use' provisions in the US copyright code are intentionally vague), but in cases like this copyright holders are generally happy to let it go. Indeed, there is already an animated version of TMM on the web, which no one has ever tried to take down. (Likewise with other works, e.g. A Very Potter Musical.)
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foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 23, 2011 10:55:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure that's quite right - as I understand it, non-profit stuff can technically infringe on copyright (and nobody is sure in exactly what circumstances it does, because the 'fair use' provisions in the US copyright code are intentionally vague), but in cases like this copyright holders are generally happy to let it go. Indeed, there is already an animated version of TMM on the web, which no one has ever tried to take down. (Likewise with other works, e.g. A Very Potter Musical.) Ah, thank you very much. Oddly enough, the animated version of TMM is what gave me the idea. The thing is, though, it was done for a school project... might that have anything to do with it still being up?
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Post by Dante on Jul 23, 2011 15:01:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure that's quite right - as I understand it, non-profit stuff can technically infringe on copyright (and nobody is sure in exactly what circumstances it does, because the 'fair use' provisions in the US copyright code are intentionally vague), but in cases like this copyright holders are generally happy to let it go. Indeed, there is already an animated version of TMM on the web, which no one has ever tried to take down. (Likewise with other works, e.g. A Very Potter Musical.) I didn't mean that it wouldn't infringe simply by being non-copyright; I'm aware of a number of non-profit works by fans being shut down by copyright holders. My understanding is that limited quotation may fall under fair use, and that's the impression of this project that I get - "short videos" are necessarily going to exclude much of the text of the books. As you've noted, though, copyright is a very vague field, and - actually, that does make me think of one point. foxiegaspie23, are you living in America? I assume you are. It doesn't make much difference, though. But anyway, the point I was trying to make is that several of the elements that would agitate a copyright holder are not present in this project. Ah, thank you very much. Oddly enough, the animated version of TMM is what gave me the idea. The thing is, though, it was done for a school project... might that have anything to do with it still being up? I'm pretty sure I've heard of schools being interfered with according to copyright before, but I don't recall the details. It really depends on who the copyright holder is, but there's no indication that Mr. Handler guards his intellectual property as jealously as other authors who, for instance, forbid fanfiction entirely. The animated version of TMM is a good example of why you shouldn't have any problems; I'd have thought that was far more objectionable to anyone interested in sniffing out copyright violators.
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Post by bryan on Jul 23, 2011 15:09:46 GMT -5
But I would say that the project you have planned isn't going to infringe on copyright; . (Likewise with other works, e.g. A Very Potter Musical.) I was just about to reference that. They avoided copyright infringement by re-naming it from Harry Potter the Musical (where the full name is copyrighted) to A Very Potter Musical (whereas just the word "Potter" is not copyrighted. Or trademarked. Or whatever it is.) It might be a little hard to avoid with what you're doing though. You could always go for the "All rights belong to Daniel Handler, Lemony Snicket, Harpercollins, Nickelodeon, and Paramount Studios (Pictures?) [if they still own rights to the series, that is]" in the description box. Whether or not that would be entirely sufficient, I have no idea. But it couldn't hurt.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 23, 2011 15:43:35 GMT -5
My understanding is that limited quotation may fall under fair use, and that's the impression of this project that I get - "short videos" are necessarily going to exclude much of the text of the books. Not sure - each will be short, but I take it they will add up to a lot. I think the 'short quotations' bit relates to criticism and review; the issue is not just how much of the original work is quoted, but also how much of the new work consists of quotations. Well, if it's on the web it's published in America anyway. I think people take most account of that because that's where people are most likely to go to law. They avoided copyright infringement by re-naming it from Harry Potter the Musical (where the full name is copyrighted) to A Very Potter Musical (whereas just the word "Potter" is not copyrighted. Or trademarked. Or whatever it is.) It might be a little hard to avoid with what you're doing though. Titles, as I understand it, can't be copyrighted. They can be trademarked - no idea if ASOUE is. But I would have thought trademarks - being marks used in trade - are only relevant when people are making money from it. Yes indeed. I really think no one knows what the law is on this (supposing we're talking about US law, which seems the most significant) - because it is vague; it mentions some factors that should be taken into account, but doesn't say how much weight each of them has. What we can know is what is, and what isn't, likely to annoy the copyright holders - and acknowledgement certainly helps there.
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foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 23, 2011 18:02:10 GMT -5
I didn't mean that it wouldn't infringe simply by being non-copyright; I'm aware of a number of non-profit works by fans being shut down by copyright holders. My understanding is that limited quotation may fall under fair use, and that's the impression of this project that I get - "short videos" are necessarily going to exclude much of the text of the books. As you've noted, though, copyright is a very vague field, and - actually, that does make me think of one point. foxiegaspie23, are you living in America? I assume you are. It doesn't make much difference, though. But anyway, the point I was trying to make is that several of the elements that would agitate a copyright holder are not present in this project. Well, what I was going to do is try to stick to the books as much as possible (as in, looks of the characters and the settings) but obviously that won't always be a possibility. The dialogue I would almost definitely change (if that's allowed?). Maybe leave a few lines here and there, but for the most part it'd be different. Oh, and yes, I'm living in America. I'm pretty sure I've heard of schools being interfered with according to copyright before, but I don't recall the details. It really depends on who the copyright holder is, but there's no indication that Mr. Handler guards his intellectual property as jealously as other authors who, for instance, forbid fanfiction entirely. The animated version of TMM is a good example of why you shouldn't have any problems; I'd have thought that was far more objectionable to anyone interested in sniffing out copyright violators. Ahh, okay. Thank you. Sorry I keep dragging this out, I really am, but I just really wanted some input on what others thought I should do. I was just about to reference that. They avoided copyright infringement by re-naming it from Harry Potter the Musical (where the full name is copyrighted) to A Very Potter Musical (whereas just the word "Potter" is not copyrighted. Or trademarked. Or whatever it is.) It might be a little hard to avoid with what you're doing though. You could always go for the "All rights belong to Daniel Handler, Lemony Snicket, Harpercollins, Nickelodeon, and Paramount Studios (Pictures?) [if they still own rights to the series, that is]" in the description box. Whether or not that would be entirely sufficient, I have no idea. But it couldn't hurt. Do you suggest renaming it? I was thinking something along the lines of A Sequence of Unfavorable Enactments (I don't know, it was just an idea), if I had to. As for the rights, that was one of the things I initially thought I should do. Now I know it's probably best if they're included. Not sure - each will be short, but I take it they will add up to a lot. I think the 'short quotations' bit relates to criticism and review; the issue is not just how much of the original work is quoted, but also how much of the new work consists of quotations. Well, if it's on the web it's published in America anyway. I think people take most account of that because that's where people are most likely to go to law. Titles, as I understand it, can't be copyrighted. They can be trademarked - no idea if ASOUE is. But I would have thought trademarks - being marks used in trade - are only relevant when people are making money from it. Yes indeed. I really think no one knows what the law is on this (supposing we're talking about US law, which seems the most significant) - because it is vague; it mentions some factors that should be taken into account, but doesn't say how much weight each of them has. What we can know is what is, and what isn't, likely to annoy the copyright holders - and acknowledgement certainly helps there. Ahhh, okay then. Um. I'm really starting to second-guess even attempting this. D: I'm really not sure anymore. /:
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Post by bryan on Jul 23, 2011 22:57:00 GMT -5
Ahhh, okay then. Um. I'm really starting to second-guess even attempting this. D: I'm really not sure anymore. /: Don't be discouraged, you should still try it. My advice would be to just put in that you don't own the rights. You could still probably call it a series of unfortunate events. Just don't put ads in front of it, if you get offered. Because then you would be making money off of it. I think.
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foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 24, 2011 0:42:08 GMT -5
Don't be discouraged, you should still try it. My advice would be to just put in that you don't own the rights. You could still probably call it a series of unfortunate events. Just don't put ads in front of it, if you get offered. Because then you would be making money off of it. I think. Alrighty then. State I don't own the rights, and no ads. Got it. :3 Once again, thanks SO much everyone. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
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Post by Dante on Jul 24, 2011 2:40:13 GMT -5
Aye, don't be discouraged just because we keep on talking about it. The upshot of everything we're discussing is that you'd be wrong to worry and quite right to go ahead with what sounds like a really interesting film project. Don't let us meddle; make it however you want it.
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foxiegaspie23
Reptile Researcher
I think it's a rather ____ rainbow.
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
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Post by foxiegaspie23 on Jul 24, 2011 2:50:44 GMT -5
Aye, don't be discouraged just because we keep on talking about it. The upshot of everything we're discussing is that you'd be wrong to worry and quite right to go ahead with what sounds like a really interesting film project. Don't let us meddle; make it however you want it. Ah, well, thank you for the reassurance, Dante. Do you think it'd be alright if I posted some of the videos once I was done with them? Maybe not in this thread, but somewhere on the forum?
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Post by Christmas Chief on Jul 24, 2011 6:03:34 GMT -5
I think we'd all be delighted to see your efforts. Something for Aggravating Art, maybe (since fan-made videos have been posted there before)?
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