|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 11, 2014 0:45:39 GMT -5
I would argue, personally, that while Smogface Wiley is a clear reference to Sir, he is equally clearly not Sir; Snicket states in TMM that he never saw Sir's face. In addition, Sir has an unpronounceable name, even in his own opinion; if Sir were Smogface Wiley, people could simply address him as Mr. Wiley, as Snicket does in the Incident in question. Very good point, Dante. The ambiguity of it made me write that it only "indicates" that it might be Sir, but I'll add your counterpoints to the post as well. Although it is not impossible that Smogface is a cousin of Sir's, with a different last name but the same powerful connections and (family) traits (or even that Sir has just changed his last name). Bearing in mind that Mack's son's name, Drumstick, references meat, and that Mack himself is described as being of gigantic size, I would suggest that Mack's name is at least partially a reference to a Big Mac (ba-dum tish). I like that idea, it seems very much like Handler's type of humour; I'll add it to the MP. Drumstick's reference to meat is probably just because of Mack's profession (butcher), though, since there is no drumstick meal in McDonald's that I know of. Indeed, the connection between his job and said franchise is more likely. Colette isn't just in TCC, lest we forget, but also appears in TPP and is equal in prominence as a character to Kevin, to whom Handler makes a very deliberate allusion in "Bad Gang" (an allusion you haven't listed, incidentally, nor either Hal from THH/TPP as Hal Hairdryer in "Ransom Note"). Nonetheless, I would agree with the conclusion that Handler wrote the name "Colette Gracq" without consciously recalling the ASoUE character - or conceivably, reflected on the reference later and decided to eliminate it owing to the lack of supporting detail (whereas Kevin in "Bad Gang" is implied to be ambidextrous). If we're talking allusions more widely... "Vanished Message" makes mention of a "doily that is quite finely made" - clearly a nod to the Very Fancy Doilies of TEE. There's also the Snicket File, herpetologists... depends what your threshold for taking note of a reference is. I didn't consciously leave out Hal or Kevin or the doilies, I just honestly didn't dwell on these connections too much. I just chose the two most obvious ones, or rather, the two references that had the most prominent role in the chapter/the book (and just added the Paltryville reference without much thought, although it is still pretty clear). For one, in the case of Hal, I don't think the character is even related to THH's Hal (more of a feeling than logic I guess), and secondly, I am aware that ATWQ is filled with slight "nods" to ASoUE, like herpetology (the snake skin that comes with the doilies) in this one, but so far doesn't play a role of any importance whatsoever. If anybody is willing to compile such a list, I'd be more than happy to divide my list between references to non-Snicket and Snicket books (or if it gets big enough it can have its own thread, too). Thanks A comet crashing into Earth for bringing our attention to these passages from FU13, I forgot about them, but wouldn't know what they referred to, either, anyway (even though I've read Narnia, Santa Claus must've slipped my mind). Concerning Tess d'Urbervilles, FU13 made me watch the film adpatation of the book recently, by Roman Polanski. It's a superb film, even if too long for its own good. It doesn't have the scene with Tess falling asleep either, though. And thanks to thedoctororwell for pointing out the article, I'll update the MP accordingly. Now there seems to be only the dead bird/mother's old suitor reference missing.
|
|
|
Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Apr 12, 2014 12:18:54 GMT -5
Thanks Terry! I wonder if when Beatrice wrote 'until C realises S is not worthy of his love', 'S' stood for 'Smogface' rather than 'Sir'. I feel obliged to direct everyone's attention to the fact that we're trying to figure out what the S stands for.
|
|
|
Post by Hermes on Apr 12, 2014 12:48:53 GMT -5
Ha! Also, I must correct my earlier post; it was of course Lemony, not Beatrice, who wrote 'until C. realises...'
|
|
|
Post by The Duchess on Apr 15, 2014 20:45:58 GMT -5
Does anyone know what movie (with "all those fools singing in French") was referred to in Violent Butcher? (Or did anyone post something here about that and I missed it?)
|
|
|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 16, 2014 10:00:58 GMT -5
Hmm, could be Jean Luc-Godard's "Pierrot Le Fou" (aka Pierrot the Fool) which has at least two musical moments, but it doesn't have that many people singing. The referred movie could be really any French musical.
Although now that you've mentioned it, I've searched for some French musicals and found an interesting one: "Gigi" from 1958. I haven't seen it, but apparently it's highly acclaimed, and aside from Gigi also being Esmé Squalor's middle name, it's based on a 1944 novella by a French writer whose pen name was Colette! So maybe this is also whom Handler was referencing in the first draft of "Inside Job" (instead of the TCC/TPP character). Now I'm not sure whether I should include this info in the MP or if it's just me who is seeing things.
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Apr 16, 2014 14:58:08 GMT -5
Further research needed, by the sound of things, although initial signs are certainly promising. For additional assistance, recall also that the movie supposedly features something important hidden inside a piano.
|
|
|
Post by thedoctororwell on Apr 18, 2014 17:06:07 GMT -5
A movie about fools singing in french ? You're going to have to narrow it down - that's a bit too vague and I doubt it's supposed to be a specific reference. Alhtough, for some reason, any musical-movie made by Jacques Demy could fit - especially Les Parapluies de Cherbourg or Les Demoiselles de Rochefort. He is, after all, the french grandmaster of camp musicals, and they're quite well-knwon in the States. I heartfully recommend them.
|
|
|
Post by The Duchess on May 5, 2014 13:02:38 GMT -5
Could you add the reference to Orphan Black (the person who plays the clones is named Tatiana) to the list?
|
|
|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on May 5, 2014 16:29:22 GMT -5
Considering Snicket has never (as far as we know) referenced any TV show before, and such a brand new one at that, it's more than doubtful that Tatiana is a reference to Orphan Black, or at least there'd have to be more evidence for it. In fact, it's more likely that the name comes from the love interest in Alexander Pushkin's "Eugene Onegin" (which Handler has praised and referenced before), Tatiana Larina. But even for this, the evidence seems too scarce.
|
|
|
Post by The Duchess on May 5, 2014 18:11:38 GMT -5
But it's CLONES
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 18:28:30 GMT -5
I've not read the book, could someone please explain the Tatiana reference and how it might relate to Orphan Black?
|
|
|
Post by bandit on May 5, 2014 20:09:13 GMT -5
In one of the incidents, there are twins named Tatiana and Treacle. I think it's obvious that the connection is kind of far-fetched though; I mean, Handler could have been writing this before the show even started.
|
|
|
Post by Hermes on May 6, 2014 9:38:58 GMT -5
Terry has a good point, though: LS is not keen on television. I once hypothesised that there was no television in the world of ASOUE: I later found a couple of references which proved this wrong, but it tends to be sidelined, and is treated very negatively in at least one place.
|
|
Trane
Bewildered Beginner
On the Run
Posts: 9
Likes: 2
|
Post by Trane on Jul 7, 2014 15:55:53 GMT -5
On page 86, in the Silver spoon story the drifter mentions washing windows at Diceys Department store. There is a children's book called Homecoming, about four siblings who travel the road by themselves in order to search for home/their mother. The main character is a girl named Dicey who earns money a few times by washing windows. I'm pretty sure he was referencing that along with a drifter talking about it.
|
|
|
Post by Hermes on Jul 8, 2014 8:46:08 GMT -5
Dicey's has been mentioned before, though, in WDYSHL. I had taken it to be a joke on Macy's.
|
|