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Post by lemonmeringue on Jan 2, 2019 12:15:54 GMT -5
I hate what they've done to Larry - they just should have left him out at all, or given him a harry, open, or at least tastefully sad ending. This... was just disgraceful and embarassing and ruined a lot of it for me. It was so unnessecary, too, and very forced, in ways of writing, acting, and "comedy".
Otherwise, I think the episodes were beautiful, especially Lemony's scenes. And Justice Strauss!
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Post by imlarryyourwaiter on Jan 2, 2019 13:53:03 GMT -5
I hate what they've done to Larry - they just should have left him out at all, or given him a harry, open, or at least tastefully sad ending. This... was just disgraceful and embarassing and ruined a lot of it for me. It was so unnessecary, too, and very forced, in ways of writing, acting, and "comedy". Otherwise, I think the episodes were beautiful, especially Lemony's scenes. And Justice Strauss! About Larry, Joe said, “ I apologize for killing Larry. We were all sad to see him go but excited to give him one last restaurant gig.”
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jan 2, 2019 16:07:08 GMT -5
I'm actually quite happy that they not only killed Larry but did so in the way that they did. Given that TPP ended with Justice Strauss explicitly surviving the Hotel fire, it seems only right that another recurring character would receive an explicit death.
And I'm glad it was Larry who got killed off too, instead of Hal, who -based on Joe Tracz's comments- it was originally going to be until they couldn't get David Alan Grier back for TPP.
I like Hal as a character very much but he only ever appeared in two episodes towards the end of the second season while Larry has been around since the first and appeared in 10 other episodes prior to TPP: Part 1.
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Post by Dante on Jan 2, 2019 16:54:55 GMT -5
This pair of episodes are definitely a high point. I was astonished, actually, at just how faithful Part One was; a few characters are swapped around, I suspect by necessity, but the game-like, interchangeable nature of TPP makes that no bitter pill to swallow. I was surprised at the Justice Strauss revelation being separated from and preceding the Dewey revelation; but on reflection (pun intended), I think it's very appropriate as it brings forward the important theme of a safe life versus an interesting one. I also thought it was important that the Baudelaires deduced Dewey's existence and tracked him down to his lair on their own account; a very active measure!
I also noticed, with some pleasure, that the story actually brought forth a number of elements which were implied in the original text but never made explicit. In the original book, Kit reports that somebody is impersonating her brother - but we never see or hear of anyone doing it; while in the show, Olaf's impersonation of Jacques is both on-point, brilliantly mean-spirited, and hilariously ironic given that Jacques was earlier mistaken for him. (It's also significant that the J.S. mystery is explained far more thoroughly than it was in the book.) Likewise, in the original book, there are a couple of hints which suggest that Esmé was indeed planning to feed people crow hors d'oeuvres at her cocktail party; and in the show she pulls it off, though I'm somewhat ambivalent about the poisoning fakeout.
I will say that I'm still not entirely clear on whether Mr. Poe or Justice Strauss wrote Odious Lusting After Fortunes, as they both take credit for compiling and titling it. I am comfortable with imagining that Mr. Poe simply stumbled on the completed product and thought that taking something which was already there and presenting it as your own work constitutes "research".
The death of Larry - a surprising event, certainly. It was always a strange reality, where Larry the waiter, of all people, was suddenly a major character; it's somehow even stranger to have him ghoulishly if cartoonishly murdered, right before our eyes. I won't say that I like it; but I won't say that I dislike it, either. It's a complicated element. I think it reminds us, at just the right time, that Olaf is an effective villain and a brutal one; this is the man who murdered Monty and Josephine. Dispatching the comic relief is cruel, but it may also be a necessary preparation.
Inflating the trial to the majority of the second episode is something I was dubious about; I'm not quite convinced that there's enough material there, but all the same, they use it well, and they even do an acceptable job of balancing use of the blindfolds with the need to have the characters spend half an hour in the middle not blindfolded - even if it means running the literally-figuratively joke into the sub-basement.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the flashbacks to the opera and everything they implied. I accept, much though the crew of the series are careful to insist that it is such a faithful adaptation, that the Netflix series is its own story; and their version of the opera tragedy is both touching, coherent, and suitably morally complex. I enjoyed the way Lemony, Beatrice and Kit are shown as comfortable friends with Olaf and Esmé, in striking contrast to what would come after; Lemony taking the rap for Beatrice is a suitable explanation and also feels true. I was taken aback by the boldness in presenting Olaf's father with such distinct characterisation and image - as a man with a job, even! A count and a fire chief; he must have a busy schedule...
But what I liked most of all was the way the conclusion of the story was presented as the end of the series. I like to imagine that actually deceiving some people unfamiliar with the series. It's true to the way TPP is a denouement which wraps up all the major plotlines and most of the major characters; it's also a way of including the same subterfuge from the original text of The End. It may also be a nod to the people who enjoy ASoUE most as a story with a bittersweet open ending about which one can imagine what one likes.
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Post by Groge on Jan 2, 2019 18:12:50 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that I liked the confirmation that Dewey and Kit were together and that he was Beatrice's father. It was touching moment seeing them together. An especially enjoyable moment when she says "give Frank my best" fooling new viewers in to thinking she is with a villain!
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jan 2, 2019 18:22:06 GMT -5
Some of the reactions to the Opera flashbacks that I've seen on social media have really been baffling me. Mainly that Beatrice accidentally killing Olaf's father removes her moral ambiguity as a character.
I have to say that I am figuratively literally baffled by these complaints. Just because Beatrice didn't mean to kill Olaf's father doesn't mean she didn't deliberately throw a dart she knew to be coated with a deadly poison directly at Esmé Squalor.
In fact, compared to her book version one could make the argument that she is much more murderous in the show. At least in the books, she didn't do it alone, and it's unclear why she did it or if she even wanted to in the first place.
Even Esmé comes off as nobler in this situation given that when she finds out her sugar bowl has been stolen she calls out Beatrice and Lemony's names and waits for them to turn around before throwing the dart directly behind them as a threat.
Beatrice shows no such compunction and just straight up tries to directly kill Esmé with no warning and likely would have done so too, given the close range she was at, if Olaf's father hadn't gotten in the way.
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Jan 2, 2019 21:13:04 GMT -5
I hate what they've done to Larry - they just should have left him out at all, or given him a harry, open, or at least tastefully sad ending. This... was just disgraceful and embarassing and ruined a lot of it for me. It was so unnessecary, too, and very forced, in ways of writing, acting, and "comedy". Otherwise, I think the episodes were beautiful, especially Lemony's scenes. And Justice Strauss! About Larry, Joe said, “ I apologize for killing Larry. We were all sad to see him go but excited to give him one last restaurant gig.” Is this from an interview posted somewhere???
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Post by imlarryyourwaiter on Jan 2, 2019 21:46:08 GMT -5
It’s from my DM with him.
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lanayru
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 69
Likes: 62
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Post by lanayru on Jan 2, 2019 22:34:45 GMT -5
Just watched both the episodes and oh man. Ooooooh man. They were so good. I can’t speak to how accurate they were to the book because admittedly I only remember what happened in the book in vague terms (which I need to fix immediately), but it was overall really exhilarating to watch.
The acting from the three children has improved immensely to when the series started. I’ll be honest, when I started the first season after it came out I wasn’t entirely convinced, but they grew into their roles beautifully.
Hmmm I guess I take back what I said about my reservations with the show’s LGBT representation in TSS discussion. It’s a small thing, but Jerome saying “he” when he talks about the love of his life (and Babs’s “someone” being a woman) is definitely something I’d consider explicit representation rather than mere implication. Also, I have to say that Jerome/Charles, while unexpected, makes a lot of sense and makes me happy. Babs/Mrs. Bass seemed a bit more random, but I’m definitely not complaining lol.
The reprise of “That’s Not How The Story Goes” over pictures from previous seasons made me cry. Speaking of, bringing back the characters and ideas and themes from the previous episodes and seasons in these episodes was done wonderfully.
I’m not sure how to feel about all the retconning they’ve done with the night of the opera and the supposed origin of the schism in general but I think that’s something I need time to mull over.
It’s almost over. I can’t believe it.
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Jan 2, 2019 22:45:10 GMT -5
It’s from my DM with him. And the bit about Hal being the first one considered? Sorry I'm playing catch up. Have you just been chatting with him on and off?
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Post by meinhard1 on Jan 3, 2019 21:59:17 GMT -5
ASOUE is filled with deaths but I somehow mistrusted that Larry was killed. I saw the pot of sauce and was like “ohh, no one will die” and then when they dropped Larry in the pot I was like “well he must have survived somehow. Then I didn’t think about it until mid episode 6 where I was suddenly sad to realize Larry actually died.
Really a surprisingly upsetting death. Larry was more likable than many of the other victims ... at least J.S. I knew it was coming.
All-in-all these episodes were *riveting.* Possibly my favorite
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Post by meinhard1 on Jan 3, 2019 22:07:18 GMT -5
I know double posting is frowned upon but guys ... Violet in her purple dress?? The children were fantastic in that trial. I forgot they were actors for a bit
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Post by Agathological on Jan 4, 2019 12:30:57 GMT -5
Does everyone agree that Max Greenfield as the denouement brothers was a really good casting choice and that he nailed the characters?
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Jan 4, 2019 21:29:59 GMT -5
Things I Loved:
My goodness the sets. Gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous. Everything was so so beautifully designed from the roads and hedges to the hotel and everything inside it — the bells, the underground library, the benches, the clock, the area which isn't the underground library but which had all those tiny drawers and the chutes for things to be delivered ...
In a similar vein, the costumes. Violet’s almost-book-dress. ❤️ The concierge uniforms were lovely. Sunny was adorable as always. ALL THAT GREEN . The split screen and rewinding the clock for the Baudelaires’ errands worked really well. I really appreciate moments like that, where they take a clever and funny literary device from the books and turn it into a clever and funny cinematic device for the show. I just think it's a mark of how well-produced this series is, that they take the time to think of that sort of thing, instead of going for a more plain adaptation and ignoring things which don't immediately translate to the screen. Great acting, as always. I keep forgetting to mention it but it’s just been stellar all the way through. Particularly love the performances from: Malina, Presley (yes she's acting now and she is a joy to behold), NPH, Lucy Punch, Richard E Grant & Patrick Warburton.
Larry being killed was actually really shocking and I’ve got to applaud them for going that dark. As others have said, I really didn't believe they were going through with it at first. I thought for sure he would be rescued but ... no.
Just seeing the general hustle and bustle of the hotel was great fun, though I would have loved to have seen more -- but you know it's there, just around the corner, and that's the important thing. Dewey’s death was very sad , and very beautiful. His body sinking above his library was a beautiful and haunting image, as is the idea that, unless someone removes his body, his skeleton will lie atop his library forever (or until it disintegrates).
I was glad the Baudelaires' noble intentions for their actions were shown very clearly. It's such a key difference between them and Olaf, the fact that they truly do always try to do the right and good thing (and still agonise over their choices), even when it means making terrible decisions, whereas Olaf excuses his terrible actions by claiming he had no choice and claiming that no one is truly noble anyway, even though he repeatedly chooses to do terrible things for none other than his own gain and pleasure.
The flashbacks were very nicely done and I do like the idea of Olaf wandering the VFD tunnels following that night at the opera. Obviously it wasn’t accurate to the book’s description of that night, or a number of other events from the books, but it was done with the right spirit, which is very important, I think.
Seeing the younger Lemony at the hotel!!! I liked his tousled hair, it felt very Lemony.
And they drove through the hedge — yay!!
The Baudelaires' testimony in court was very emotional, particularly Violet's, and I really liked that.
The ending was beautiful, with the song and all the photos and clues and string. So nostalgic and sad, but also sort of cosy and comforting im its very nostalgia and sadness. Which is how a lot of ASOUE is, I suppose. Anyway, as others have said, I liked that the end of TPP was presented very much as the end, with TE serving as this hazy, out of time and out of place epilogue.
I was pleasantly surprised by Frank, Ernest, and Dewey — they didn’t look how I imagined them to so I wasn’t sure what to expect but I was pleased with his performance.
It was good to see returning characters, although a shame to miss some. The absence of Eleanora Poe struck me when Mr Poe mentioned The Daily Punctiilio ... I don't know if I've missed something, but was the actress just unavailable for this season, do we know?
It was nice to see the whole cocktail party/hors d'oeuvre plot kept in, although I wasn't too sure about the poison fakeout. I liked it more upon second viewing.
Things I disliked:
I feel the Baudelaires were made to seem kind of foolish in court with the way they called Count Olaf to the stand. It was very obviously not going to end well, and I think it was a shame to make the Baudelaires appear so short-sighted.
The way the Baudelaires dropped the harpoon gun. In the book it slipped through their fingers very naturally, but here they properly had it in their hands and then all just dropped it. Not a big deal, though; they were still surprised and it was still clearly an accident; I just expected it to be a bit smoother.
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Post by Liam R. Findlay on Jan 5, 2019 4:30:44 GMT -5
It's quite amusing how, in A Series of Unfortunate Events, where there is treachery, murder and no happy ending, Larry the waiter's death is too far or distasteful for some fans. Like with the freaks' deaths, I was suitably excited by such an unexpected dispatch, because it showed that even as a book reader who thinks they know what's going to happen, things were still incredibly intense and unpredictable.
I also like how it gave Ernest his time to shine as a villain. We don't see very much of the triplets, and it was good to see the true danger he posed, beyond a simple aura of sneakiness.
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