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Post by BMatt on Jan 2, 2019 20:37:35 GMT -5
I think that the decision to make The End a single episode was not ultimately as wise a decision as we may have anticipated. It is abbreviated; it's restructured to accomplish that abbreviation; but much of it is too brief. I felt the same way, while I did not want a LOTR 15 endings scenario, I would have liked a moment to breathe and remark on the journey rather than the one hour "Oh. It's done." It has been interesting to watch the series through observation of The Lady. She has never read the books, seen the film, ect. During the final episode she had questions, primarily why Olaf suddenly cared about Kit, why she would not take the apple, and a few other things. I enjoyed that there was enough meat on the bone for the book fans to discuss but accessible enough for her to enjoy as a casual viewer.
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lanayru
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 69
Likes: 62
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Post by lanayru on Jan 3, 2019 0:05:55 GMT -5
So like. I sobbed, of course.
It was a beautiful episode in many different ways.
I won’t say I don’t have problems with it (it felt rushed, some changes don’t necessarily make sense to me, like the stuff with Ish and VFD, nothing anyone hasn’t said yet) but it’s been long enough since I read the book that I was able to appreciate it without expecting it to be just like the source material.
The stuff with Beatrice the second was amazing. I almost wish that I didn’t keep up so closely with the production thread on this forum so I could’ve been surprised by it.
I just. Can’t believe it’s over now. I don’t have much else to say I guess.
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Post by Mr. Dent on Jan 3, 2019 3:20:34 GMT -5
As others have already mentioned, this episode is terribly flawed. It is rushed, it has some awkward moments, some contrivances and tragically underdeveloped characters. The tone is uneven, and some moments really ought to be more dramatic than they are presented. I was terrified, especially since I knew they weren't going to keep the ambiguity of the book, that The End and it's messages would be ruined, or come across as hypocritical or plastic.
The End is my favorite episode. Easily, of the entire series. It is rich, and beautiful. It is satisfying, but even moreso it is sincere. It is so loving and sincere, and honest. The way that watching this made me feel is something I'm not sure I'll ever feel again. I know that's dramatic, but it's the truth.
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Post by cwm on Jan 3, 2019 5:07:43 GMT -5
I thought it worked better as a single standard-length episode than I thought it would, but it is a little too frantic in pace at times when it could have afforded to be slower. Another 20 minutes of runtime could have solved a lot of my problems with it.
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Post by Groge on Jan 3, 2019 9:07:09 GMT -5
It's saccharine, perhaps; but I got what I wanted... which was the Baudelaires encountering the F.F.P. on their way to Briny Beach for the third time. Happy ending? Bah! Validation for having read the BBRE is the ending I deserved. Sorry I haven't read the BBRE or TBL (although have read excerpts on various sites) so I'm not sure what FFP is? Is this something to do with pirates?
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Post by Hermes on Jan 3, 2019 10:07:36 GMT -5
Female Finnish Pirates. (They are mentioned a couple of times in the main series, as the source of one of Violet's knots, but without a suggestion that they still exist.)
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Post by Groge on Jan 3, 2019 14:36:01 GMT -5
Female Finnish Pirates. (They are mentioned a couple of times in the main series, as the source of one of Violet's knots, but without a suggestion that they still exist.) Thanks! Googled it to get more info and it led me back to 667 Dark Avenue circa 2012 asoue.proboards.com/thread/31164/female-finnish-pirates
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Post by meinhard1 on Jan 3, 2019 21:48:47 GMT -5
For me season 2 was a bit of a mixed bag. Brilliant in parts, but could be overly silly and lacking in focus. But for me Season 3 was ... not perfect ... but perfect enough. I’m internally mistrustful of hyperbole but it was all just really, really good.
I love that The End kept the poetry passeges Handler wove I’m so eleqently. The Phillip Larkin passage remains Olaf’s last words and it feels just as impactful.
I binged the last three episodes and they were different from the two final books but I *feel* like I just read them and just as blown away by handlers end to the series as the first time
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Post by gliquey on Jan 4, 2019 11:57:35 GMT -5
I love that The End kept the poetry passeges Handler wove I’m so eleqently. The Phillip Larkin passage remains Olaf’s last words and it feels just as impactful. In fact we could say that the Larkin passage has more meaning here, as This Be The Verse as a whole is about parenting and Olaf has a clearer backstory in the Netflix series, with the Sinister Duo as his surrogate parents.
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Post by meinhard1 on Jan 4, 2019 12:36:00 GMT -5
I love that The End kept the poetry passeges Handler wove I’m so eleqently. The Phillip Larkin passage remains Olaf’s last words and it feels just as impactful. In fact we could say that the Larkin passage has more meaning here, as This Be The Verse as a whole is about parenting and Olaf has a clearer backstory in the Netflix series, with the Sinister Duo as his surrogate parents. Yeah! It adds personal significance. Olaf would be one to think about what his last words would be, perhaps he had the passage in mind. The themes in general were more obvious. Also, I think The End is better presented as a quicker paced epilogue available right after viewing The Penultimate Peril, rather than waiting something like a year for a meditative, intentionally opaque and anticlimactic final book.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Jan 4, 2019 22:22:43 GMT -5
Before I write anything else I want to say that personally I have never had a problem with inconsistencies in ASOUE because they're part and parcel of the ASOUE world. They help create that sense of mystery and uncertainty which pervades the books. So I don't mind there being inconsistencies in the show, either; the show itself is not canon, of course, so it doesn't really matter anyway in terms of matching things shown in the books to things shown in the Netflix adaptation. But the inconsistencies even within the show are OK in my book because having things be unclear and baffling is so much in the spirit of the series.
As I say, the show is not canon, the books are (although I am happy to accept the revelation from the code hidden in TIHOSO as canon, because I imagine they would have gained DH's approval for that, and even though we know he wasn't at all precious about changing stuff for the show, this particular revelation concerns what happens AFTER The End, and is therefore new content, not a change in the adaptation. Anyway, what happens next was left open for imagination and this was always the outcome I favoured.)
I think the only part where this gets tricky is with some of the new revelations which don't change what we know from the books, or which could slot in quite easily among all the general confusion and mystery. In particular I am thinking of the sugar bowl. Personally, I am quite happy to take this answer because it seems to me to be a good one. There are some statements in the books concerning the sugar bowl's contents which might seem to clash with the show's answer, but others which certainly don't, and in any case, so many of the statements may be unreliable, or a twist on the truth, or they may be in relation to secrets we never hear of which could actually tie everything neatly together if only we knew. Essentially, I think that, whether or not this was the solution Handler always had in mind, he must have been happy enough with it for them to use it in the show. As he's listed as co-writer on the last episode, I certainly think he would have been able to veto anything which he felt was just too far wrong or out of place. So for me, I'm really happy with this answer. And I don't think it removes the series' mystery: one of the big themes of the entire series was just how complex the world is, and how one mystery only unlocks another and another, ad on infinitum. So the answer to one question, if you accept it, only raises a dozen more. And if you don't accept it ... then of course one is free to continue pondering the mysterious contents of the sugar bowl. Anyway, those were my two cents on that whole topic.
Things I Loved:
Well my goodness did this make me cry. Honestly, I cried for hours after this, and when I typed this up yesterday, days after watching this, I was still genuinely feeling so sad about it all. I felt like I’d suffered a bereavement. I felt like that when the books ended as well, of course, but that only makes this more impressive: the fact that I feel this sad at the end of the show demonstrates, I think, what a good job they’ve done in translating the books to the screen. What is really really wonderful for me, though, is that when I rewatched it today, a second viewing (which I was nervous would make me even more miiserable) was incredibly cathartic, and lifted such a weight from my shoulders. It was still so sad and touching and tragic, and I cried again, oh yes. But watching it again, the enormous comfort of knowing that the story goes on, of seeing Lemony and Beatrice 2 discussing the Baudelaires' adventures after The End, was overwhelming. The first viewing devastated me. The second viewing lifted me out of my devastation.
Anyway. I loved the design of the interior of the apple tree.
More ATWQ references!! Those make me very happy.
Olaf’s death scene was absolutely outstanding, and was, I think, NPH's best performance in the entire show (and he has been stellar). It was horrifically sad, and so delicate. I'm so glad they had the poems, even if the way they recited them was a bit different. And Olaf’s lurch towards the Baudelaires was great: creepy, startling, touching. And his interactions with Kit were spot on. So tragic, so brutal, so believable, so sad.
And again, really great performances all round. Violet and Kit and Sunny. ❤️
INK!!!
The scenes with Beatrice 2 and Lemony! My goodness that was powerful. It was so wonderful to hear so many snippets of information being tied together by Beatrice right at the end, as she continued the Baudelaires’ story. I think that was one of the most emotional things of all: hearing their story continue, and seeing it told so happily and fondly. It was cathartic, bittersweet. Wonderful as always to think of their story continuing, unbearably sad not to be able to hear it all. I loved it.
Things I didn't like:
Mainly, I think the things I didn't like were not so much things that were there, but the absence of what was left out. Despite the tone of The End being very much separate from the rest of ASOUE, it is still one of the longest books, and there's a lot of content to get through, so I was just sad that they didn't give themselves more time and build up the island society, show the various schisms developing, explore the characters and their hollow society. And I would have liked to see them discuss INK's arrival more.
But I think what is really important to note is that despite all the material it lacks, the episode was still breathtaking and so, so powerful. I think there was so much more they could have included, but what they kept in was done superbly, and with real respect for these wonderful books and their incredible world and characters.
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Onder
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 28
Likes: 22
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Post by Onder on Jan 5, 2019 11:56:38 GMT -5
Re: Whether the Bauds are dead or alive.
It's technically possible they died some time after arriving in The City. However, I believe it's implied Lemony and Beatrice Jr will eventually find them alive. Reunification of lost family members or loved ones is a major theme in this episode whether it's the Widdershins, Quagmires, or Snickets - all recover a loved one who was long presumed either dead or lost. Plus, in the ASOUE universe is anyone really dead unless there's a body? It isn't exactly uncommon for VFD members to go on the lam.
Regardless, this was my favorite episode. Equal parts funny and sweet, it made for a great send-off.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Jan 5, 2019 15:12:17 GMT -5
“It’s small... round... full of secrets... and I WANT IT!” The Sugar Hybrid is itself a secret. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think the line still checks out.
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Post by cwm on Jan 5, 2019 17:19:45 GMT -5
My preferred interpretation in the book series was that there were multiple sugar bowls, each containing something completely different, and everyone was referring to a different sugar bowl whilst presuming that everyone was after the same one.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Jan 5, 2019 17:29:51 GMT -5
Fair, fair, but look at it this way: knowing the contents of the Sugar Bowl is knowing the answers to several, at-first-glance-separate questions: - What is the content of the Sugar Bowl?
- Why do both sides of the Schism want it?
- Why ever was it put in a sugar bowl to begin with?
- Is there a way to reliably protect oneself against the Medusoid Mycellium?
- What was [Insert Name of Whatever Volunteer Invented the Hybrid Here] growing in that plantation that we tried so hard to spy upon?
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