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Post by Dante on Sept 17, 2019 15:55:33 GMT -5
Welcome back to the three and a halfth installment of 2019's Great 667 Re-Read for Lemony Snicket's All The Wrong Questions. In this thread, we come to the third question - Shouldn't You Be In School? This thread will remain an Announcement for the following fortnight. Previous threads: Who Could That Be At This Hour?When Did You See Her Last?File Under: 13 Suspicious IncidentsI'll kick us off with my own observations on the book's opening: The dedication – that is, the telegrammatic file note (p. -3) – has one less item than usual in its FILE UNDER list. Additionally, after the previous entries were addressed to ‘Walleye’ and ‘Pocket’, I suspect the considerably more complex name Eratosthenes to be something of a punchline. Chapter OneAlthough the masked and uniformed figures in the frontispiece appear very similar to those in ?2’s endpiece, their shoulder insignias have been swapped from VFD to OPD. (p. -1) I wonder how significant this is, in light of suggestions in ?4 that the Snickets’ mission may not have been so unauthorised after all. ‘For this reason I’d taken to spending my afternoons watching over the town’s only remaining school.’ (p. 3) The fact that there is a school more or less confirms that ATWQ’s regulars should have been in it. ‘Some of them looked familiar from my time in town.’ (p. 4) On the other hand, it’s conceivable that some of the students in the school might be characters from File Under, but we don’t find out. ‘All of them looked tired and none of them met my eyes’ would seem to indicate the reverse, so perhaps Snicket had merely observed them around town in general. ‘I was reading Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea in the hopes of learning something’ (p. 4) And by the end of the book, it’s fairly clear that he would have. ‘or, as he called himself, sub-librarian’ (p. 6) A distinction File Under forgets, or perhaps isn’t interested in. ‘in a few short days this library, the only one in Stain’d-by-the-Sea, would be gone forever.’ (p. 6) As I discussed in relation to File Under, neither the building nor the books are destroyed. I genuinely wonder if Handler changed his plans for exactly what would happen to the library. “There are some new Italian dictionaries that I thought you might find interesting.” (p. 7) At times Qwerty’s hints are so prescient as to be clairvoyant. ‘She put the case down with a small frown of pain. Her arm was still bandaged from a recent encounter with someone good with a knife.’ (p. 10) The fact that Moxie’s arm is still injured makes it potentially difficult to situate some of the stories in File Under chronologically. ‘She often had her coffee very late at night and stayed there to watch the sun rise.’ (p. 13) I’m not clear how Snicket could know this. “I looked at the business section of the newspaper […] all the way back to before I was born.” (p. 12) “It’s from an article published when the town was arguing about draining the sea” (pp. 13-14) Implies that the sea was drained before Moxie was born, or at least that discussions about it were already in progress at that time. ATWQ’s backstory is left quite vague, so it’s not clear whether or not this lines up with other details. ‘Ink Inc. had been affected as adversely as the rest of town, and had recently shut its doors for good.’ (p. 15) It wasn’t actually clear in ?2 if this was the case, but this is a clear-cut answer. “ Help has arrived […] Where is the fire?” (p. 18) appears to be a coded phrase, or at least a signal phrase, judging from the italicisation and page 91.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 18, 2019 7:28:51 GMT -5
Personal Notes: “OPD” in the opening picture must stand for “Official Police Department.” I have never heard of a “Volunteer Police Department,” although I am vaguely remembering something about Dwight on The Office… I really prefer Moxie over Ellington. She is more straight-forward. Who is evaluating them? (2) …”fragile glass figurines.” (9) Does Moxie Mallahan become Mrs. Quagmire? (10) Beethoven game (11) What is the birth order of the Snicket siblings? (11) “Do [your uncles] buy you popcorn at the movies…” (11) Uncle Monty ? BERTRAND WAS STM’S PREVIOUS APPRENTICE???!!!!! WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? (12) The kids are more or less the same characters as ASOUE – Cleo is Violet, Jake is Sunny, Snicket is Klaus, Moxie is Duncan, Ellington is Olivia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SHOULDN’T YOU BE IN SCHOOL?
CHARACTERS:Eratosthemes (page before the second title page) Lemony Snicket (1) Hangfire (1) Dashiell Qwerty (1): Snicket thinks a more appropriate name for him would be Wildhairy Oddjacket Ellington Feint (1): Filene N. Gottlin (8) Moxie Mallahan (1) Moxie’s mother (m) (1) Porter Roeman (1) S. Theodora Markson (1) STM’s former apprentice (2) Man asking for fire for his cigarette (2): Hangfire? Kellar Haines: A boy Snicket’s age at the “DoE” (2) Sharon Haines (2): Kellar’s mother Harold Limetta (2) Harvey Mitchum (3) Mimi Mitchum (3) Stewart Mitchum (3) Jake Hix (3) Hungry Hix (3) Cleo Knight (3) Prosper Lost (5): maybe not a bad guy after all Talkie Brothers (5): Official Fire Department Ornette Lost (5): Proper’s daughter; lives with her uncles – the fire fighters? Armstrong Feint (5) Bouvard Bellerophon (6) Pecuchet Bellerophon (6) Zada (6) Zora (6) Mr. Bellerophon (7): He’s still very ill. Man from Calcutta (7): Hungry’s ex-husband Dr. Flammarion (8) Snicket’s sneaking instructor (9) Lizzie Haines (9) Sally Murphy (9) Edward (m) (9): one of Snicket’s associates Polly Partial (11) Bertrand (12) Q (m) (12) Olaf (m) (12) !!! went to Wade academy? Josephine (13): flies a helicopter Gifford & Ghede (13): the two people who were with Snicket at the beginning of the first book – they are not helpful volunteers RIGHT QUESTION:Why would someone destroy one building when they really wanted to destroy another? (1) What did they do with the rest of the equipment from the Roe House? (6) QUESTIONS FROM THE FLAP:What are they teaching their students? Where did she hide it? Does anyone else feel sleepy? REFERENCES (real and made up):Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea (1) Italian Dictionaries (1) a book about Jody and a pony who got sick (2) a book about a sad young man who finds a tiny strange man with a sack of magical crystals (3) a book about two friends, and one tricks the other and he falls out of a tree and breaks his leg (3) The Children’s Hour (3) Sophocles (5) The Goncourt Journals (6) Contrasts for Violin, Clarinet, and Piano (6) by Bela Bartók The Wind in the Willows Old Yeller a book about a dark, stormy night, a scientist who disappears, an intelligent boy, a haunted house, a woman with a crystal ball, a black cloud, and a brain (7) a bunny who disobeys his mother and eats vegetables out of a man’s garden, loses his jacket and shoes, drinks tea, knows a hedgehog, etc. (7) Belgian detective in the funny hat (11) book about two people who decide to trade wicked deeds (12) SNICKET DICTIONARY:cast a pall over the town: made things shadowy and quiet (6) Exacerbate: make worse (11) In a manner of speaking: no (10) Inane: my brother and I would pretend we couldn’t hear each other very well while we were talking (11) ingenius: very clever (4) jalopy: an automobile that looks like it could fall apart if you touched it (5) large campus: there was a tall, wide building that curved slightly like a seashell with a group of small buildings in its shadow (1) Looking daggers at me: giving me nasty looks (11) Paraphrased: more or less stolen from another one of my associates (9) prestigious: important or having great influence (2) Revulsion: a vivid and violent dislike (12) set up shop: turn an empty hospital into a place where many children could be kept prisoner for some sinister purpose (1) shucked: to take the part you can eat out of the shell (6) Skeptical: she didn’t believe me (13) slatternly: untidy and unprofessional (5) the skinny: the secret information (4) unnerved: I didn’t want to look at them (6) GEOGRAPHY:the library (1) Colophon Clinic (1) Stain’d-by-the-Sea (1) Stain’d Secondary (1) the Mallahan Lighthouse (1) Black Cat Coffee (1) Corner of Caravan and Parfait (1) Roe House (1) Clusterous Forest (1) 350 Wayward Way (1): now the Department of Education, formerly the Roe House (2) Diceys Department Store (2) Birnbaum’s Sheep Barn (2): burned down 421 Ballpoint Avenue (2) The Lost Arms (2) Hungry’s (3) Wade Academy (4) Offshore Island (7) The Hemlock Tearoom and Stationary Shop (7) Partial Foods (11) Handkerchief Heights (13) FOODOLOGY:Coffee (1) Peppermint Ice Cream (2) homemade bread (3) Reuben sandwhich (3) tomato-watermelon gazpacho (3) habanero pepper jam (3) limeade (4) buttermilk (4) Hangtown fry (6) Tandoori Chicken with Vegetables (6) doughtnuts (11) grapes that turned into raisins because no one bought them (11) omelet (11) prunes (11) (I love prunes) honey dew melons (11) Porcini mushroom (12) Farro risotto (12) Artichoke lemon soup (13) Brook trout, grape leaves, olives, and rosemary (13) Blueberry cobbler (13) Homemade hazelnut ice cream (13) Peppermint tea (13) S:Smart (2) Slide in, Snicket (2) ‘Some of them looked familiar from my time in town.’ (p. 4) On the other hand, it’s conceivable that some of the students in the school might be characters from File Under, but we don’t find out. ‘All of them looked tired and none of them met my eyes’ would seem to indicate the reverse, so perhaps Snicket had merely observed them around town in general. Do those children ever get brought up again? Or are they all kind of throw-away characters in case readers were unable to read book 2.5 in the series? Do you think Qwerty was the one who taped the newspaper article under the table at Snicket's favorite seat? He would have known that is where Snicket always sat. It seems Qwerty is always suggesting the book Snicket really needs, even though Snicket never realizes it. But why would he need the Italian dictionary? Or is there something hidden in it? Why do you think STM never remembers Moxie?
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Post by Dante on Sept 19, 2019 3:19:16 GMT -5
Does Moxie Mallahan become Mrs. Quagmire? (10) I am curious as to what in particular makes you wonder this. I don't know if we can deduce it from ATWQ alone, or even from most of ASoUE alone; the only real clue is the Family Tree in the U.A., and to a lesser extent one of the calendars, which hint that Jacques and Kit are twins. The File Under characters are now and forever File Under characters, and nowhere else will you find them. I suspect this is because it's sort of meant to be a standalone release rather than truly part of ATWQ. That doesn't seem to be what's being implied, and it would be kind of silly if Snicket was going to all this effort to sneak around Qwerty when Qwerty was the one who left that article in the first place. Some of that irony is already there, of course, in that they are both volunteers who never acknowledge one another as such, but I feel the suggestion is that it's someone closer to Snicket than that. The article itself would still need to be brought in from out of town, after all. It ties in with the cover story about Harold Limetta later, though as I cover in my notes, this is somewhat problematic as it's implied that Sharon Haines only came up with that name off the top of her head when asked - meaning that the Italian dictionaries are, at this chronological point, entirely irrelevant. She doesn't think children are important. Chapter Two‘a man walked out, putting on his hat and taking out a cigarette’ (p. 24) It’s this kind of subtle use of Veiled Facial Disguises that make people wonder if Hangfire was ever a volunteer. Something else in this book will make them wonder. ‘I did in fact have a box of matches in my pocket’ (p. 27) …Why? A strange thing for a volunteer to keep. ‘It is not a question anyone enjoys hearing, especially people my age. It is the question printed on the cover of this book.’ (p. 27) You’re meant to be the one asking these questions, Snicket! ‘At the corner he tossed his cigarette into a dented trash can’ (pp. 27-28) He didn’t really need it, not here. It was purely for the disguise. Of course, it wasn’t even really a cigarette. Please see my note to pages 122 and 125. ‘His hands hardly moved around the keyboard, as if he were typing the same thing over and over again.’ (p. 29) Which, as we later discover, he was. ‘Pinned to her collar was a very shiny gold badge shaped like a lime’ (p. 30) This will be significant. “Read about us in the newspaper if you don’t believe me.” (p. 32) An empty statement. “Well, Kellar Haines […] shouldn’t you be in school?” (p. 32) In previous books, the titular question is never spelt out. In ?3, it’s inconsistent whether it’s spelt out or not, and my reading is that, when it is spelt out, that signals that it’s not the wrong question. In context, it seems to me that Snicket got some useful information out of Kellar’s answer. ‘You could not become an apprentice without knowing what arson is. You could not even start to study for an apprenticeship without knowing “arson.” I even knew the original Latin term from which the word “arson” was derived.’ (p. 38) Arson is an important crime to V.F.D., and this passage perhaps signals that we’ll be learning more about V.F.D. in this book. ‘“Who is this witness?” I asked. / Sharon’s eyes widened and she moved her hands up and down, over and over, like she couldn’t decide whether or not to remove her ears. She looked over at her son and then down at her collar, and then she cleared her throat and answered my question at last. “Harold Limetta is his name.”’ (p. 39) Had Sharon Haines really not been supplied with the name of her witness and had to make it up on the spot from her collar badge? “I believe his name is Italian” (p. 39) On the other hand, Qwerty seems to have had advance knowledge of this detail. Please see my note to page 7. “After all, our progress is being evaluated.” (p. 39) By an observer, or a supervisor; call them what you want, they’re there to keep an eye on things. ‘Kellar stopped typing for a second and shared a look with his mother I didn’t quite understand’ (p. 40) I wonder if, just for a moment, Kellar might have thought that this whole meeting was just people on the same side going through the motions. After all, the Haines family are also being observed, or supervised. ‘I must say, I didn’t expect so much kindness and understanding from such a prestigious investigator.’ (p. 40) This could be simple flattery, but I recall some people have interpreted it as more. “I’ll look up the address […] just like you’ll look up Harold Limetta.” (p. 43) Good thing the library has some Italian dictionaries. ‘“If you were a better apprentice, you’d remember I told you that someone from our organization was keeping an eye on us.” / I remembered. Theodora was quite nervous about this person, whoever it was. I didn’t think it was likely that it was Sharon Haines of the Department of Education. I had my own ideas.’ (p. 44) It was good of Theodora to remind us of this plot point, as it was mentioned once in ?1 and never since. It’s given more importance here because it’s more important to this book, though it’s not clear that Snicket’s ideas are correct. ‘I could see a large set of metal rectangles, each one about the size of a book, stacked up in several rows and surrounded by broken glass.’ (p. 47) I recall that these are important later, and relate to things we’ve seen and things which were perhaps once in the Roe House. ‘Fires were of grave importance to the organization of which I was a part. It would be a black mark on my record, I knew, to have suspicious fires occur and go unsolved and unpunished right under my eyes.’ (p. 47) We get more information about V.F.D. in this book than we perhaps did through the whole of ASoUE; or at least, more fundamental information.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 19, 2019 12:01:47 GMT -5
Does Moxie Mallahan become Mrs. Quagmire? (10) I am curious as to what in particular makes you wonder this. I think what I was thinking is that she is a journalist, and she then passes on her skills in journalism down to Duncan. I find it funny that chapter 2 has heart-shaped balloons mentioned. I wonder if they ever had to start emergency fires. I think his answer showed how vulnerable he was. Kellar wanted to be in school. Why does Theodora wear a helmet while she is driving her car? Or is it the type of car with no roof? Did the sheep wind up on the island? (38) Is it being insinuated that Qwerty is the arsonist? (38) I think they are kind of acting like middle-school girls who are best friends/enemies all at the same time... I never understood those relationships. I don't get why he's so obsessed with helping Ellington. (42) Peppermint ice cream really would hit the spot...(46)
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Post by Dante on Sept 22, 2019 4:07:29 GMT -5
Why does Theodora wear a helmet while she is driving her car? Or is it the type of car with no roof? Good question. I feel like it's included more to help construct that early-twentieth-century atmosphere, but it's also very reasonable to suggest that Theodora doesn't actually need it at all. When you put it that way, I'm sure the very presence of sheep is another ASoUE self-reference. Is it being insinuated that Qwerty is the arsonist? (38) Unfinished business? Cupidity? Or perhaps at this point he correctly suspects how important she is to the case. Chapter Three‘The metal rectangles were still there too, stacked up like the books you were planning on reading next. My shoes crunched on the shattered glass. They’re tanks, I realized. Tanks for fish or small animals. They’re tanks and they’d probably be clues, I thought, if you knew what the mystery was.’ (p. 53) Book-sized tanks seem like they must be unusually small and unusually shallow or narrow. “My aunt counts on me to run this place.” (p. 63) While she, Hungry Hix, does what? “Doesn’t anyone in this town go to school?” (p. 64) You may well ask. Certainly the protagonists don’t – for a while. “Still, some people waste their afternoons chasing after an Italian lime.” (p. 65) Kellar’s even less subtle in his hinting than Qwerty. Chapter Four“The fires are a plot by someone who hates moths.” (p. 73) This is honestly far more logical than most of the absurdities Hangfire tries to get his enemies to believe. “In our line of work we’ve learned to trust, honor, and flatter librarians.” (p. 74) Further background information on V.F.D. ‘That was all I told them. It was everything except the small tanks that lay burned in the wreckage.’ (p. 79) I wonder how much Snicket suspected already, if he didn’t want to tell Moxie and Jake about these. ‘and beneath all the secrets was a great, slippery mystery, like a creature lurking in the depths of the sea.’ (p. 82) Presented without comment. ‘Qwerty […] turned his empty cup over so it domed over the saucer.’ (p. 83) This is also a mannerism of Ellington’s. I wonder if they’ve ever met, at Black Cat Coffee. Almost certainly, given page 85: “I was away from the library on a delivery […] A woman felt she could not come to the library, as it would be dangerous.” But was Ellington attempting to extract this book on her own initiative, to understand what the Inhumane Society was planning? Or was she doing on the Inhumane Society’s behalf, in order to cleanly destroy evidence? “They say in every library there is a single book that can answer the question that burns like a fire in the mind. You must find that book, Snicket, and read it.” (p. 86) If that book is anything other than Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea, we don’t find out what it is; and in any case, Snicket never reads it.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 22, 2019 11:42:54 GMT -5
‘The metal rectangles were still there too, stacked up like the books you were planning on reading next. My shoes crunched on the shattered glass. They’re tanks, I realized. Tanks for fish or small animals. They’re tanks and they’d probably be clues, I thought, if you knew what the mystery was.’ (p. 53) Book-sized tanks seem like they must be unusually small and unusually shallow or narrow. They are probably pretty small tanks, but I think the baby bombinating beasts are pretty small to start out with, like when Snicket gets bit by one of them. Sits around the restaurant? Maybe she takes care of the business end of things, paying the bills, etc. I remember this quote was in the show, too. Was this an original Snicket quote, or did he get it from somewhere else?
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Post by Dante on Sept 23, 2019 8:19:39 GMT -5
“They say in every library there is a single book that can answer the question that burns like a fire in the mind. You must find that book, Snicket, and read it.” (p. 86) If that book is anything other than Caviar: Salty Jewel of the Tasty Sea, we don’t find out what it is; and in any case, Snicket never reads it. I remember this quote was in the show, too. Was this an original Snicket quote, or did he get it from somewhere else? It's a Snicket original, as far as I'm aware. I think he usually makes it more obvious when it's a borrowing (as we see very prominently later in this book). Chapter Five‘ Help has arrived is what I was supposed to say, but it wasn’t true.’ (p. 91) Please see my note to page 18. ‘I had seen buildings burn before, as part of my training and as part of my childhood.’ (p. 91) In other words, as part of his training and as part of his personal history. Arson has always been a significant crime for V.F.D., as I indicated before; and just as clearly, it’s a significant crime for Snicket and his past, even at this young age. ‘the masked driver of the car grabbed me and threw me into the passenger seat.’ (p. 93) You would have thought Snicket would be more alarmed at being grabbed by masked men at this point, but presumably it’s different if they are firefighters. ‘The driver threw off his mask. It was Prosper Lost. […] His voice and his manner had no trace of the sneakiness he usually demonstrated around me. It had vanished into thin air. Now he just seemed like a worried man who was done pretending.’ (p. 95) What a turnaround from our previous experiences of Prosper Lost, and the moment he becomes an actually sympathetic character. ‘“Is there a volunteer fire department?” I asked finally, taking an enormous risk.’ (p. 95) I think very few of us expected ATWQ to have greater giveaways about V.F.D. than ASoUE did. This, as I read it, is the line which shows that Lemony suspected Prosper Lost as the V.F.D. observer; it’s a risk in that it otherwise chances giving away the existence and nature of Snicket’s organisation. “Ornette lives with her uncles […] I miss having her near me, but I wanted to keep her safe.” (p. 96) Firefighters live safer lives than hotel proprietors? Perhaps. Many shady individuals seem to pass through the Lost Arms, and we can’t forget that Theodora got beaten up there by Hangfire in ?1. ‘Armstrong Feint only seemed to sink deeper into the shadows of the Inhumane Society.’ (p. 98) ‘I recognized the phonograph but not the music’ (p. 100) Our first hint, if an oblique one, that Ellington is in contact with Sharon Haines. “With the destruction of Stain’d Secondary, they have all been transferred to the Wade Academy, just outside of town. Normally, they only admit the best kind of students—the children of dukes, earls, counts, that sort of thing.” (p. 102) Earls are the same as counts, and that decision appears to have been made and put into operation phenomenally quickly considering that the head of the Department of Education has been partying with Theodora all afternoon. ‘They were probably hitting the town. I hoped it was hitting them back.’ (p. 105) I wonder if Snicket will regret that thought later. ‘even though I did not like it when she called me L.’ (p. 107) Young Kit is a surprising stickler for V.F.D.’s rules considering that the operation she was undertaking with Lemony appears to be an unauthorised one. ‘I picked it up and turned it over and then saw a word, just one word stamped into the machine, right where the arm with the needle lay waiting to make the music play.’ (p. 109) This mystery is presently unsolvable for the reader. ‘I was taking the word I had seen, the wrong word on the phonograph, and using it to fill in a blank, as in a crossword puzzle. It made the puzzle ugly and unspeakable.’ (p. 110) This is the point, if he didn’t suspect it before, that Lemony must realise Hangfire’s true identity.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 23, 2019 11:24:54 GMT -5
‘I had seen buildings burn before, as part of my training and as part of my childhood.’ (p. 91) In other words, as part of his training and as part of his personal history. Arson has always been a significant crime for V.F.D., as I indicated before; and just as clearly, it’s a significant crime for Snicket and his past, even at this young age. Who would burn down a symphony hall. Who hates classical music that much? I find it interesting that part of his training was learning how to make a grappling hook. Who taught Violet how to make a grappling hook? (92-93) Prosper says Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town. How is that possible? Secondary makes me think it would be a middle or high school, so there would be an elementary school somewhere in town. And maybe since she lives with her uncles, that is why Prosper didn't know she had already been sent home for the day? The whole party scene causes me to wonder who on earth thought it a good idea to recruit STM into V.F.D. Why does Snicket have to put down adults in all his books? Why are there no reliable adults in the entire series? I don't care for that aspect of the books. (99) "but she would not look me in the eye." (103) Maybe STM was so desparate to have a friend that she was willing to go along with a plan she knew was wrong. "It is one of the worst adjectives to have on your evaluation as an apprentice." (104) That would stink to be given a bad evaluation because your ... I can't think of the word for what STM is for Snicket, so supervisor is a bad one. He should have picked a better one. As his older sister, she was maybe just doing it to irritate him a little bit on purpose. "I wasn't sad the way a spider isn't an insect." (108) I don't get this. A spider has eight legs and I thought only two parts of its body, therefore it is not an insect. I think every time Ellington looked at the machine, she had to have known. That's just too much of a coincidence.
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Post by Dante on Sept 23, 2019 14:35:40 GMT -5
Prosper says Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town. How is that possible? Secondary makes me think it would be a middle or high school, so there would be an elementary school somewhere in town. Perhaps all the elementary school students have to go to school out of town, or have already been moved out of town; or have no choice but to stay home. I'm fuzzy on American school-age divisions, but I'd imagine that Squeak would be an elementary schooler? Technically, a spider is not an insect, no; but to many people, it's intuitive to bracket spiders together with insects as they have a family resemblance, that of tiny, crawling creatures with an exoskeleton. People tend to assume that spiders are insects before they're taught otherwise. What is suggested by this line is that spiders may not technically be insects, but perhaps they are in spirit; and using this as an analogy for his feelings of sadness. It was "only the tiniest bit true" that he wasn't sad. There's a good chance, I'd agree, but I'm not sure that we're ever truly certain what she knew. It may be that she didn't want to know.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 24, 2019 11:16:29 GMT -5
Prosper says Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town. How is that possible? Secondary makes me think it would be a middle or high school, so there would be an elementary school somewhere in town. Perhaps all the elementary school students have to go to school out of town, or have already been moved out of town; or have no choice but to stay home. I'm fuzzy on American school-age divisions, but I'd imagine that Squeak would be an elementary schooler? Yes, probably. It really varies from town to town. I think the school system where I grew up was divided PreK-5th grade for elementary, 6-8 grade for middle school, and 9-12 for high school, but I think now the 5th grade is part of the middle school. And some towns have junior highs, too, which I would guess would be 7-8 grade. But I went to not a public school, and my grade school was preschool-8th grade. Sorry, probably way more information than you were looking for.
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Post by Dante on Sept 24, 2019 12:31:49 GMT -5
Chapter Six
‘they both had wrinkled and blackened uniforms reading OFD’ (p. 112) Natural enough in context, but also a very oblique reference to the BBRE.
‘The Talkie Brothers didn’t seem to be very talky. They didn’t seem to be brothers, either.’ (p. 113) In case anyone hasn’t picked it up yet, Ornette’s uncles are a couple.
‘There was a short list of places in Stain’d-by-the-Sea where I could talk with my associates without fear, and the list kept getting shorter.’ (p. 116) In this case, it’s perhaps not necessarily that they can’t trust the adults, as that the adults wouldn’t trust the children.
‘“Maybe their father isn’t sick,” I said, “so they don’t have to drive his taxi.” / ‘Jake opened his mouth to say something and decided to say something else.’ (p. 121) Whatever the truth is about the Bellerophons’ father, it’s an open secret in town; just not to the reader.
‘Cleo frowned into it, and reached down to retrieve the cigarette the man had thrown away.’ (p. 122) ‘Cleo […] put the cigarette in the pocket of her coat.’ (p. 125) It was foolish of Hangfire to leave that thing lying around. He put a tool into the hands of his opponents.
“It refers to something that takes a bit of time before it works.” (p. 129) Hangfire. But it might also refer to a person who takes a long time before he finally decides he has to act.
‘a large, carved club, a little longer and a little thicker than a baseball bat. It was made of black wood, and the carvings were at the very end of it. They were rough, angled carvings, as if the carver had been angry when he used his knife. Still, though, I could see what they depicted. I could see the face of the Bombinating Beast.’ (p. 134) ?2 indicated that the black wood is as important as the tree it came from. The following books don’t necessarily follow that lead, but here’s another item of black wood anyway; though in this case, rather than being made into furniture for the Colophon Clinic (or a black cane of dubious ownership), perhaps it was retrieved by someone who opposed the felling of the tree and who put their feelings into the crafting of this weapon – and then waited a long time before they used it.
‘Cudgel, I thought, would be another word for it. Staff. Wedge.’ (p. 134) This is a somewhat unusual usage of ‘wedge’.
‘The man ushered everyone into the van, but he still didn’t say anything. His voice could have sounded like anything. He could imitate the voice of anyone, anyone at all. He might not have even had a real voice, not anymore.’ (p. 138) After ?2, Hangfire by and large stops using this ability. It’s the kind of advantage that’s no advantage at all once everybody knows about it. But I think it’s also psychologically significant that at this point he’s by and large stopped saying anything at all. Increasingly, Hangfire gives up on expressing himself and retreats into facelessness.
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Post by Foxy on Sept 25, 2019 11:42:09 GMT -5
Where is Jake getting the oysters from if the sea has been drained? (111) Lemony has been going to school at least since kindergarten. (114) Jake makes a reference to how hard it is to get fresh oysters. (116) Hungry seems somewhat agreeable about giving out free food. Do they make any money at all to survive? Ah, to live in a fictional world...(118) "No one throws away a cigarette they haven't lit." (122) 1. How does he know this? 2. Why didn't he bring it up before? “It refers to something that takes a bit of time before it works.” (p. 129) Hangfire. But it might also refer to a person who takes a long time before he finally decides he has to act. I wonder how the machine works. How does it know the exact moment you want it to play? I still don't quite understand why Qwerty needed to be framed. Did Hangfire think Qwerty was going to stop his evil plan? I wonder if the man and woman were TMWTBBNH and TWWHBNB. Snicket said they unnerved him. (132) Nope, the woman is Sharon Haines. (133) Why didn't Hangfire just make his own BB statue or have a similar kazoo or whistle made? With all the talk of typewriters, this reminds me Snicket's typewrite becomes very important to him later in life. (137) I don't get how being in a special program gets Snicket out of getting forced by Hangfire and Sharon Haines to go to school. (138)
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Sept 25, 2019 12:09:06 GMT -5
FoxyI think he didn't know yet what the sound produced by the statue was, since he didn't have the statue in his hands yet. Also, I don't think he could hear the BB sound, because the beast he developed was still too young to produce that specific sound. I can only deduce that the sound produced had to do with the mating call of the beast, so that the beast when it was a child did not yet produce the sound. Also, even if Hangfire had control of the beast, it was important to take control of the beast from the hands of others. Even I believe the Colonel's death must have been caused because of it. I suspect the Colonel used an old version of BB during the war, so Colonel C. needed to die. He might have some whistle that could control the BB.
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Post by Dante on Sept 26, 2019 14:45:35 GMT -5
Jake makes a reference to how hard it is to get fresh oysters. (116) So they're probably being ordered in from somewhere nearer to the sea. I think it's probably just some kind of timer mechanism. To be honest, given that Qwerty appears to know everything that's going on in town, sometimes even before it happens, then I wouldn't bet against him. I think we may reasonably infer that the Bombinating Beast statue isn't just shed skin and a pipe; the exact proportions and inner chambers of the statue are necessary for air to pass through it in such a manner as to replicate the species's distinctive call. Hangfire's smart enough to know that Snicket would be trouble in school, so he tries to arrange for him to be taken out of town instead. Foxy I think he didn't know yet what the sound produced by the statue was, since he didn't have the statue in his hands yet. Also, I don't think he could hear the BB sound, because the beast he developed was still too young to produce that specific sound. I can only deduce that the sound produced had to do with the mating call of the beast, so that the beast when it was a child did not yet produce the sound. It's not necessary for the call of the Bombinating Beast to be specifically a mating call; most animals' calls alter as they grow older and larger and their interior biology develops. Just look at humans. Chapter Seven“I’m not smart, Snicket. I don’t ask the right questions and I never find the right answers.” (p. 143) It must have cost Theodora a lot to admit that, and to her apprentice, no less. “We can be transferred to another location, and we’ll never have to worry about Stain’d-by-the-Sea again.” (p. 144) What’s interesting about this is that it confirms, finally, that Lemony and Theodora have been formally stationed in Stain’d-by-the-Sea rather than just being there for specific jobs. My own reading of this is that Stain’d-by-the-Sea is thought by V.F.D. to be obscure and unimportant, and thus a good place to put troublemakers out of harm’s way. Either way, it confirms that V.F.D. can’t have wanted Lemony to play a role in his sister’s activities, no matter what else may be the case. “If we return to the city, maybe we can get her out of prison.” (p. 144) But it also seems to be true that a certain amount of latitude for independent activity is authorised among volunteers. ‘With the sea gone, Offshore Island was just a pile of stones rising from the bare seafloor, with an eerie bridge hanging over the missing water, and a rickety platform that had once served as a stop for the train.’ (p. 155) The description can be a little confusing, here and other places. If Offshore Island is indeed an island, it must have bridges on two sides for the train to pass through, unless it’s circling around and passing straight back over the bridge it came from. I’ll be discussing some unlikely features of a certain train route in ?4. ‘I could see a large pile of something, gathered together in a spot right near the wall. The pile was round and tall like a haystack, made of something leafy, or something papery.’ (p. 157) I can’t remember if the story ever outright states exactly what this is, although I do know what it is. It’s the same material used to cover the base of the Bombinating Beast statue, for a start. ‘Behind a few shrubs was a large, abandoned wagon, longer than an automobile and wider, too. It looked like something a farmer might use, or people who traveled with all the books they owned, just in case they needed one of them.’ (p. 161) I had not noticed all the foreshadowing in this pair of sentences before. ‘It might have been just a small, round reflection, something shiny in a window.’ (p. 162) Ellington was watching him again.
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Post by Dante on Sept 30, 2019 8:14:46 GMT -5
Chapter Eight
“Stew Mitchum. He polices these hallways day and night with a cigarette in his mouth and a smirk on his face.” / “There’s boys like that at every school.” (p. 169) I wonder if Lemony is thinking of anyone in particular. And I wonder something else about this cigarette, but I’ll discuss it next chapter.
‘“I saw him attack you,” she said, gesturing to the binoculars’ (p. 169) The mysterious light Snicket followed on pages 161-162.
‘I was thinking about Ellington Feint, dragging me to her room. She was stronger than Stew Mitchum, or maybe she just wanted something more than he did. Or maybe, Snicket, I thought to myself—’ (p. 170) Or maybe this was part of the plan?
“You wanted to read this book for the same reason I did. We were both investigating the process by which caviar is made.” (p. 170) The solution is being pointed to gradually more explicitly, and before long we’ll see the results. Qwerty trusted Ellington’s intentions. The whole point of the plan to frame Qwerty was ultimately to destroy the library, which was ultimately to destroy this book. Even in light of later events, it’s hard to be sure what Ellington’s stake was. Did she want to save this book, the better to stop Hangfire? Or did she simply want to find out for herself what was going on, without being concerned about how it ended up?
“The woman who runs this place took it away along with almost everything else, as soon as I arrived at the Wade Academy.” (p. 172) It’s reasonable for anyone to regard this as unlikely. If Ellington had any other option, she wouldn’t have given up that statue unless she was sure she could get it back.
‘We kept quiet for a minute, with only the music for company.’ (pp. 172-173)
‘It was a photograph, a small one, of a man with kind eyes, frowning at me.’ (p. 173) This could well be the clincher, once Lemony has confirmation of what Armstrong Feint looks like. He’s seen Hangfire’s face, after all; though I suspect that face looks somewhat different to the face in the photograph.
“I’m counting on you. We all are.” (p. 180) This is the curious thing. This conversation outright reveals that Ellington is working with the Inhumane Society directly and personally. And yet –
“Stew knocked him unconscious, but then he disappeared.” (p. 180) Sharon also doesn’t seem to know anything about what happened to Snicket. My research indicates that it’s harder to move a body than you think. I find it unlikely that Ellington was able to steal Snicket away to her room on her own; how would she even know? But she might have made a bargain with Stew Mitchum to the effect that she would take care of Snicket, and that was enough for Stew to keep quiet about having smuggled Snicket into Ellington’s room, while still reporting that Snicket was in the vicinity. That feels like Stew Mitchum, honestly; and it feels like Ellington, too, always playing both sides.
“Volunteer Fire Department.” (p. 185) Who on beginning this series ever imagined that one of the biggest secrets of ASoUE would be casually stated out loud like this. What’s interesting is wondering how Ellington found out about it; back in ?2, she thought that Snicket was a member of the Inhumane Society. Handler has given an answer indicating that Ellington may have run into this information outside of Stain’d-by-the-Sea; but I think it’s equally possible, given something we learn later, that Hangfire told her.
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