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Post by mizbizsav on Jan 17, 2020 21:56:01 GMT -5
I want to preface this by saying that the source is not anything official. It's a big fansite for Netflix that could very well have deeper connections with those involved in Netflix world... or not. They claim they "got word" that a prequel series is happening, but that's it. They didn't say from who or where and no other outlets have reported on this. So... obviously this does not mean anything is happening and we should all reasonably be skeptical. However... since it is out there and some people are discussing it, I figured it best to share it here, too. Here are some select quotes from the article: And this is how they describe the show: Link: Whats On NetflixUntil there's more information and reliable reporting, I'm doubtful of this being real... but obviously hoping very strongly that it is! I do think a prequel series aka ATWQ would make sense. The creators of ASOUE all seemed to be very passionate about the world and would be willing to work with the story further. There also seemed to be a strong relationship between not only those crafting the story, but between the creatives and those at Netflix. And, even if chatter about the series dipped over the years, there was always a steady demand for more. So it's not the craziest rumor I've ever heard. Even if the source is doubtful, it's still always fun to imagine what an ATWQ TV series would be like, especially in connection with the ASOUE TV series. Imagine Patrick Warburton doing some narration - it would be lovely. P.S. Also hello to everybody at the boards! I've been MIA for the past year - I don't even think I shared my thoughts on ASOUE S3?! (Which I thought was overall amazing and I was very happy that my favorite books got such strong adaptations.) Anyway, I don't know how that happened, but I'm here and am going to spend the next hour scouring the boards, hoping I didn't miss any important Snicket news.
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Post by Dante on Jan 18, 2020 4:38:10 GMT -5
It's difficult not to take this with more than a pinch of salt. Joe Tracz didn't think an ATWQ series was very likely, and, much though it pains me to say it, ATWQ never set the world on fire, and the ASoUE adaptation never seemed to get much in the way of mainstream attention, either - outside of its links with Neil Patrick Harris, who has no obvious role in ATWQ. It's worth noting that that description of the show is taken verbatim from the Kindle edition of ?1 (yes, down to the "before the invention of Netflix" line). Nonetheless, it would be very interesting to see a television adaptation of ATWQ - a tightened-up version, too (my recent reread of ?4 turned up more than a few inconsistencies). And I do think ATWQ would probably be easier to adapt, overall; shared setting, emphasis on returning characters... By analogy to the ASoUE adaptation, they could knock out ATWQ in a single series - but File Under is there for filler material that could stretch it out to two series; the main questions as openers and finales, with case-of-the-weeks padding it out. Or would they be more likely to release each book individually as a sort of extended telemovie?
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Post by countadrian on Jan 18, 2020 15:06:21 GMT -5
This would be a dream come true... Although it doesn't seem likely, maybe (just maybe) it could work as a miniseries. After all, ASOUE was three seasons long, but ATWQ are 4 books that could easily be put into just one big season. So yeah, a bunch of money, but not such a big involvement as ASOUE.
They would definitely need big names here, though... and because the main cast would be made of children, it would be even more difficult. "Children stars" today are mainly the It and Stranger Things kids... Patrick Warburton could be back as a narrator as well...
Who knows? Until we don't have an official confirmation, let's not get our hopes high...
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Jan 18, 2020 18:39:48 GMT -5
Good point on how just because NPH wouldn't be involved in a theoretical ATWQ adaptation it doesn't mean they cannot get another star(s) for such a series.
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Post by Esmé's meme is meh on Jan 20, 2020 10:58:26 GMT -5
I don't think it's unlikely at all for an ATWQ mini-series/movie to happen. The show, though it didn't become one of Netflix's most popular shows, had a great reception for its three seasons. During the development of the ASOUE adaptation, Whats on Netflix proved to be a reliable source, so let's hope it's true!
I'll try asking some people that worked for the show to see if they know anything about it.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 20, 2020 15:55:53 GMT -5
At least they can't go wrong with ATWQ.
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Post by gliquey on Jan 22, 2020 7:27:56 GMT -5
ATWQ would make a brilliant series, I think, but I am a bit distrustful of the rumour for all the reasons Dante gives, and a couple more. ATWQ was more recent so it doesn't have the nostalgia factor for audiences in their 20s that ASOUE had for my IRL friends who watched it. However, it's impossible to predict what Netflix wants more of and what it will cancel when it seems to be doing well - if they're looking to expand their range of original content targeted for children then this would make an adaptation more likely.
If it was made into a show, the stars they get won't be a big deal to me as long as they can act, but I think it would be a big blow to not have NPH - unless they forced adult Olaf into the show somehow (and also invented new ways to get Warburton on-screen as much as possible). I think those would damage the quality of the adaptation a little, but I was pleasantly surprised by lots of changes in the ASOUE adaptation. If they cannot work out how to fit NPH/Warburton in, or they're not on board for an ATWQ adaptation (I don't see much reason why they would be), it might be that a project will get the go-ahead if they get another big name actor in an ATWQ character role (e.g. S. Theodora Markson), and otherwise the project could fall through.
If ATWQ was being adapted, I'd hope for Handler to have a big role as he did in ASOUE. My biggest fear would be that they make the same mistakes that ASOUE did in spoiling mysteries at the end of the show. I suppose ATWQ has quite a different ending with quite a different message, and I'm not tied to the idea of Snicket walking into the forest at the end of ?4, but the sense of mystery and ambiguity running through the whole series is very important for them to get right. But I would love to see it on-screen because it has so much potential. One unlikely and quite out there idea that I think would actually be very interesting is a standalone miniseries of 13 5-minute episodes of File Under (after an introductory episode to acquaint us with the characters).
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Post by Dante on Jan 22, 2020 17:44:40 GMT -5
I don't think it would be too difficult to involve Warburton quite heavily on-screen, given that we're literally talking about his character's memories; as Snicket's adult self able only to watch powerlessly as his younger self makes mistake after mistake, his role would arguably be both more powerful and more logical than it was in ASoUE. A big-name actor as S. Theodora Markson is a good idea (I confess I was toying with ill-starred ideas for a present-day plotline featuring an adult Ellington); she does charge through the narrative with some of Olaf's reckless abandon. The only real issue would be that her screentime is somewhat limited - one struggles to remember her doing anything in ?2, for instance, and in ?4 Snicket barely sets eyes on her. But I don't think it would be too difficult to rectify that, since ASoUE quite cheerfully added third-person scenes the Baudelaires were never present for. What might be more of a problem is that Theodora tends to be involved less and less over the course of each book, so the big-name star's role in "Part 2" would necessarily always be less interesting than in Part 1. A difficult problem. You can't exactly make a big name out of Hangfire, though; in the first half of the series he's anybody and in the second half he's nobody. ATWQ is a series which leans even more heavily on its cast of children than ASoUE did, so unless you happen to have any big-name child stars knocking around, you might have trouble drawing people in on star factor; and you'd have to really nail the casting.
For my part, I already think the canon ATWQ finale made a number of thematic missteps (quite apart from the plot not making any sense when you actually think about it); Hangfire's motivation doesn't square with the rest of the series, and I don't buy the happy ending that Snicket gives the town - though that's partly as I don't think it fits the tone (the unhappy ending Snicket and Ellington receive feels much more natural and deserved). I'm cautiously optimistic about some of that getting tweaked, in the same way the ASoUE adaptation nodded towards a few long-running gaps and inconsistencies - though of course it included its own, more glaring ones. That would be the thing to avoid. I do regard the ASoUE adaptation as essentially a separate product with its own distinct ideas, though; would ATWQ be the same? Difficult to say or know whether that's something we'd even be interested in. I would quite like to see File Under material included somehow, though I suspect it would be more in the form of nods and allusions rather than direct adaptations, even heavily-padded ones. I wouldn't want them to do anything like some of the adaptations of Agatha Christie short story collections, where they basically put the whole thing in a blender and come up with something essentially completely original; I think that can work, but they'd have to work hard to convince me it was the right approach.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 22, 2020 22:45:50 GMT -5
There is nothing to indicate that the original narrator of the ATWQ books is not an adult Lemony narrating about the time when he was a teenager. Even if this is Netflix's interpretation, I would not consider it anti-canonical.
I think File under 13 would work well as an introduction and conclusion to each chapter. You know ... like it shows an opening scene with a case of File Under 13, and only at the end of the episode will the result be revealed. But it would be necessary to make a really quick video to leave the viewer curious throughout the episode. And at the end of the episode, the end of that case would be shown. This would somewhat replicate the idea of File Under 13, I think. Regarding the adaptation of ASOUE, I believe that one of the most anti-canonical and unforgivable things that Netflix did was to ruin the almost millennial history of VFD. Netflix made VFD look like it was created by Ishmael, making the ATWQ ambiance meaningless. Lemony at ATWQ is proving to be an innovator in an almost millennial organization. This rebellious attitude, which ended up causing a shock between generations, is one of the recurring themes in ATWQ, and is very important for the effect of ATWQ. At the end of ATWQ, we were left wondering how much new ways of thinking are really better than old ways of thinking, and what price we are willing to pay for the innovation of our ideas.
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Post by Dante on Jan 23, 2020 5:16:20 GMT -5
You don't discuss the Netflix adaptation of ASoUE very often, Jean Lucio, and it's interesting to see your views; I hadn't considered that the Netflix backstory of V.F.D. is difficult to reconcile with some of ATWQ's premises, and I don't see an obvious fix for that. The point I'd been considering is the way the "item" subplot is dropped halfway through the series, with the emphasis shifted only to Kit and not the object of her and Lemony's attention; that's exactly the kind of thing the ASoUE Netflix team would take it upon themselves to expand and explain. The trouble is, the easiest way to pass it off (and this does go for canon) is to hint that the item becomes the contents of the sugar bowl, and thus turn a loose thread into a point of continuity - but Netflix has a sugar bowl explanation which is irreconcilable with that approach. I suppose they could always imply it was literally the sugar bowl, with or without contents of note. Or come up with a completely different explanation or indeed premise behind the whole incident. I suppose it depends partly on whether Handler regarded the subplot as concluded at ?2, or whether it was a genuine dropped plot point.
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Post by B. on Jan 23, 2020 6:54:10 GMT -5
Does Netflix have infinite money?
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 23, 2020 9:37:17 GMT -5
You don't discuss the Netflix adaptation of ASoUE very often, Jean Lucio, and it's interesting to see your views; I hadn't considered that the Netflix backstory of V.F.D. is difficult to reconcile with some of ATWQ's premises, and I don't see an obvious fix for that. The point I'd been considering is the way the "item" subplot is dropped halfway through the series, with the emphasis shifted only to Kit and not the object of her and Lemony's attention; that's exactly the kind of thing the ASoUE Netflix team would take it upon themselves to expand and explain. The trouble is, the easiest way to pass it off (and this does go for canon) is to hint that the item becomes the contents of the sugar bowl, and thus turn a loose thread into a point of continuity - but Netflix has a sugar bowl explanation which is irreconcilable with that approach. I suppose they could always imply it was literally the sugar bowl, with or without contents of note. Or come up with a completely different explanation or indeed premise behind the whole incident. I suppose it depends partly on whether Handler regarded the subplot as concluded at ?2, or whether it was a genuine dropped plot point. I think that after talking to you so much, I finally matured. (That's a lie.) But today I can say that what most offends me about adapting Netflix is not the revelation of SB. I realized that in the third season Netflix writers simply acted like me, trying to deduce mysteries on their own, and then publishing those deductions. They got it wrong, and the difference between me and them is a lot of money and the ability to produce TV shows. But the things that offended me most in the third season were not the non-canonical revelations. It was the anti-canonical scenes. There is a subtle difference between these two concepts. To affirm that the TGU is a sea snake or to affirm that inside the SB it has sugar, is to take advantage of gaps left in the original content to create. They did something like a Fanfic or one of my theories. But taking Captain W out of the submarine is anti-canonical. It is disrespectful to the original material. It is not a subtle change, like changing a character's gender. I say the same about the VFD story. As it was shown, VFD looks like a group of friends who just got organized. It was very small. But in the books VFD is an international organization, with a rich and complex history. Especially in the final books, VFD proves to be a very important element, something that DH spent a lot of time thinking about how to create. If I'm not mistaken, the very concept of the character Lemony Snicket was born after DH became interested in secret organizations. So, what Netflix did was to de-characterize an important element, one of the most important. ATWQ expands on information about VFD, but does not expand on information about Baudelaires. The same is true in LSTUA. VFD is very important to me, and it has always impressed me more than the Baudelaire story itself. I am not a normal person, I already convinced myself of that. And that’s why I don’t talk a lot about adapting Netflix, although there are elements that reconcile a lot with the way of thinking, like the fact of showing a narrator telling events of many years in the past, which is one of the bases of my theories. Does Netflix have infinite money? Of course, yes!
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Post by catastrophist on Jan 23, 2020 15:24:55 GMT -5
I regret to inform you that Daniel, Barry, and I have been showing this article to one another with much bafflement and amusement. So while I can’t say for certain that there is no ATWQ series in development at Netflix, I can say the three of us haven’t heard anything about it. Which means this news should be taken with a very large grain of salt. (Or, more controversially, horseradish-laced sugar.)
And since the topic of adaptation has been brought up…. I think it’s totally fair to talk about any adaptation as being anti-canonical, since different mediums have different requirements, and different types of viewers have different expectations. I do hope the people on this board know that any decisions that were made were never made lightly or with the intention to step on what makes these books worth discussing (and adapting!) in the first place. There’s a line in the Official Fire Chief’s speech in Penultimate Peril Pt 2 that you can’t really hear in the final cut, because other characters are talking, but here’s part of it:
“Fire is more than a literary metaphor for the kind of sudden change that can sweep through your life without mercy or warning, destroying everything in its path. It is also a very real danger.”
I was always proud of this line because I thought it spoke to the dual nature of the answers we give on the show. The contents of a sugar bowl can be literal AND a metaphor for the things people obsessively pursue that aren’t worth the pursuit. An underwater danger can be a sea monster AND a metaphor for [death/the unknown/all the huge, mysterious, powerful things in life that will never give us closure]. This is different than the books, which don’t give direct answers at all, but hopefully maintains the idea that things in the Snicketverse are more than they appear, and thus merit close interrogation. I’ve always felt that this is what sets the Snicket books apart from all the other kid-Gothic series that followed, which copied the surface details but lacked the subtext.
Anyway, your mileage on whether this is the right approach, or how successfully we handled it, will vary, but I’m grateful to have been a part of something that can fuel these discussions. And nothing makes me happier than to know that, one year after the series' conclusion, these conversations are still being had.
(Finally, in the happier timeline where this news item is true, I’d add that Ishmael’s claim to have founded VFD wouldn’t pose a problem for any ATWQ adaptation, because it would be the easiest thing in the world to claim that Ishmael, false god that he is, was simply lying about his own importance to manipulate the Baudelaires. That ambiguity was intended to come across anyway.)
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 23, 2020 15:56:26 GMT -5
I regret to inform you that Daniel, Barry, and I have been sharing this article to much bafflement and amusement. So while I can’t say for certain that there is no ATWQ series in development at Netflix, I can say the three of us haven’t heard anything about it. Which means this news should be taken with a very large grain of salt. (Or, more controversially, horseradish-laced sugar.) And since the topic of adaptation has been brought up…. I think it’s totally fair to talk about any adaptation as being anti-canonical, since different mediums have different requirements, and different types of viewers have different expectations. I do hope the people on this board know that any decisions that were made were never made lightly or with the intention to step on what makes these books worth discussing (and adapting!) in the first place. There’s a line in the Official Fire Chief’s speech in Penultimate Peril Pt 2 that you can’t really hear in the final cut, because other characters are talking, but here’s part of it: “Fire is more than a literary metaphor for the kind of sudden change that can sweep through your life without mercy or warning, destroying everything in its path. It is also a very real danger.” I was always proud of this line because I thought it spoke to the dual nature of the answers we give on the show. The contents of a sugar bowl can be literal AND a metaphor for the things people obsessively pursue that aren’t worth the pursuit. An underwater danger can be a sea monster AND a metaphor for [death/the unknown/all the huge, mysterious, powerful things in life that will never give us closure]. This is different than the books, which don’t give direct answers at all, but hopefully maintains the idea that things in the Snicketverse are more than they appear, and thus merit close interrogation. I’ve always felt that this is what sets the Snicket books apart from all the other kid-Gothic series that followed, which copied the surface details but lacked the subtext. Anyway, your mileage on whether this is the right approach, or how successfully we handled it, will vary, but I’m grateful to have been a part of something that can fuel these discussions. And nothing makes me happier than to know that, one year after the series' conclusion, these conversations are still being had. (Finally, in the happier timeline where this news item is true, I’d add that Ishmael’s claim to have founded VFD wouldn’t pose a problem for any ATWQ adaptation, because it would be the easiest thing in the world to claim that Ishmael, false god that he is, was simply lying about his own importance to manipulate the Baudelaires. That ambiguity was intended to come across anyway.) Thank you for writing this. Today is a very important day for me, as I was finally heard by people directly linked to the adaptation of ASOUE. Thank you very much for sharing this information. I am very happy that you understood my feelings about the almost millennial history of VFD. (Actually, I think it's a really ancient story, from 300 BC or so, from the time of one of the first volunteers who said something about frogs and stones). And if you happen to have access to Daniel Handler, please tell him that I am one of the few people who realized that Beatrice survived for many years after the fire in her house, and that I realized that there is a great hiatus of many years between the publication of books 3 and 4. And that I understood why Lemony was not dressed as a bullfighter at that costume party that took place at headquarters on the Netflix series. Tell him I thought it was great. It is a pity that I was one of the few who understood the reasons. He will understand.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Jan 24, 2020 5:29:01 GMT -5
I had no idea Joe Tracz once joined the ATWQ re-read discussion here. that's awesome, lol
Oh, and I guess that's that for the ATWQ/Netflix rumour..... for now!
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