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Post by Dante on Jun 20, 2020 3:18:27 GMT -5
It's worth remembering that the only mention of Eleonora in the main series relates to the Baudelaires meeting her at the Hotel Preludio, as reported in TPP, and there we don't hear either her surname or her occupation. The whole saga of Eleonora Poe, the editor, comes entirely from TUA. And there is a mention of a spyglass in TSS, so it is book canon, even though it was movie canon first. It's true. Chapter 7 TSS: "what looked like a periscope, or perhaps a spyglass, an ice cream scoop, lying forlornly in a pile of ashes encrusted with burnt sugar, and an iron archway emblazoned with the words "V.F.D. Library" One of the burned objects may seem a spyglass. But I think it's not exactly the same thing than shown in the movie, Hermes . I am in agreement with Jean Lucio here; the spyglass is unemphasised and the allusion is never repeated, even after the movie. There is no indication that it is any more special and significant to V.F.D. than the ice-cream scoop - it's not even definitely a spyglass. Even Jean Lucio's beloved whistles had adjectives. Olaf's 'flammable' strongly suggests he started the fire - I think there will be other indications of this - unlike the books where this is always kept mysterious. I wonder if this is part of the way the show tends to avoid unsolved mysteries (for understandable reasons, as I've said before) - this was never really treated as an important mystery in the books, but I think some readers saw it as one, and were annoyed when it was not solved. I disagree that there are no indications in the books that Olaf might be responsible; quite aside from the implications of the 667 Dark Avenue tunnel subplot in TEE and the U.A., there is, more strikingly, Olaf's admission in TWW (p. 207) that he is also wanted for arson - at a point at which the only fire ever mentioned is that of the Baudelaire mansion. Bearing in mind that Handler's initial contract was for only four books and he didn't believe he would get an extension, I think there are enough hints in the first four books for a backstory to be reconstructed. (This is not to say that the series ultimately commits to this answer; it is very plain that we are supposed to make up our own minds. But there is evidence, enough so I think to suggest that Olaf's culpability was indeed the original intention. I would also call it an inevitability of the logic of children's books, really.)
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Post by Hermes on Jun 20, 2020 6:26:22 GMT -5
She also references a “mitzvah” later in the episode, which the Baudelaires do not understand. (I think others have criticized this moment as it implies that the Baudelaires are not Jewish.) That is inaccurate, though. Klaus correctly says that 'mitzvah' means 'commandment'. That is its basic sense; from there it comes to mean the fulfilment of a commandment, and hence an act of human kindness, which can be called a blessing. But I don't find it at all incredible that a learned Jewish boy would initially say 'commandment'. (We know the Baudelaires are not strictly observant, as they have eaten ham. On the other hand, Klaus's first association for a long robe is that it is something a rabbi might wear.) The most notable example, I think, is 'I bought it online', in relation to the hourglass (which is rather problematic in light of the setting).
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jun 20, 2020 7:19:08 GMT -5
I think Hermes touched on a subject that I didn't exactly like. Despite the cited optical fiber books and computers of the last generation, I do not see the ASOUE world as having an internet as we know it. I have always seen it as a world in which knowledge is kept mainly in physical media in the form of physical libraries. In addition, I believe that the main means of long distance communication are the telephone and the telegraph. I would say that the advancement of information and communications technology is at the level of the early 1970s. It makes more sense for libraries to be so highly valued, I think. Inserting the internet in that world seems like a non-positive anachronism.
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Post by Hermes on Jun 20, 2020 7:24:54 GMT -5
My headcanon is that 'online' need not refer to the internet as such, but could mean an old fashioned bulletin board, of a kind which did exist in the 70's - though Olaf is not the sort of person likely to have access to one. Still, it would have made life easier if NPH had not said it.
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Post by FileneNGottlin on Jun 20, 2020 7:53:14 GMT -5
The internet line always seemed out of place, but Lemony’s review of of Olaf’s play mentions how he doesn’t understand why people are on their phones during performances.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jun 20, 2020 8:05:25 GMT -5
Two phrases that I particularly liked, spoken by Olaf. (My wife was watching episode 2 with me, and she didn't understand why I laughed): when Fernald talks about the cake filling and he says that one has a lemony flavor, Olaf says: "I told you never to use that word". The joke was lost in the Portuguese translation, but I got it. And another moment was when Olaf kidnapped Sunny, and he says, "When Did You See Her Last?", A great (?) reference to ATWQ. There was another moment ... He was having tea (or coffee) and he said: "I just couldn't find my sugar bowl."
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Post by Hermes on Jun 20, 2020 9:48:45 GMT -5
Second half of episode 1:
'You've done something to your hair.' Should we conclude that Justice Strauss did not use to wear her wig in public? (We later discover that she does not wear it indoors.)
The Justice clearly knows something about VFD, through having read the Incomplete History. It's always a bit of a puzzle, of course, how secret VFD really is; is it actually hidden, or just arranged so that people fail to notice it? Does the show handle this differently from the books?
Do you think that Klaus's line about how a library is like an island if it's surrounded by water is a bit our of character? It's a metaphor, and a perfectly sensible one. K should know how metaphors work. Lemony is rather literal-minded, and I can imagine him saying something like that (perhaps he did?), but it shouldn't carry over to all the characters.
The Justice's character is very beautifully developed; she was a rather flat figure in the book.
Olaf cannot remember what language he is speaking. Is the point that he cannot remember the word 'English', or is it a hint that he is talking some other language, and we are hearing a translation?
How does the Hook-Handed man know that Sunny said there was chocolate pudding?
I'm struck by the way O says his theatre production will change everyone's life; this suggests he has already concocted the marriage plot. I have a feeling this is a difference from the book, where one can see he moment he comes up with the plot, and it is accompanied by an apparent change of heart. Does anyone know the details?
We probably shouldn't comment on 'Mother' and 'Father' until their plotline is resolved.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jun 20, 2020 11:18:16 GMT -5
Olaf cannot remember what language he is speaking. Is the point that he cannot remember the word 'English', or is it a hint that he is talking some other language, and we are hearing a translation? I suspect that Olaf only pretends not to have learned knowledge. It would be very strange that they are not speaking English, given that we have so many references to North America in the books.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jun 20, 2020 14:18:46 GMT -5
Did I see a reference somewhere to Neil Patrick Harris improvising some of his lines? Some of his asides, like the “for recycling” comment after dinner, are fantastic but seem like they could have been improvised outside of the script. The most notable example, I think, is 'I bought it online', in relation to the hourglass (which is rather problematic in light of the setting). Ah yes, now that was mentioned as being a line he improvised and to be honest it does sort of feel that way. Luckily though, from everything I've read they kept to the improvisation to a minimum, at least while filming the episodes themselves. I believe NPH and some other cast members did do a little bit of improvising but that was usually weeks or even months ahead of time, during the script read throughs. The schedule of the show was simply too tight to allow for that kind of Carrey-style improv to be possible except once in a while. How does the Hook-Handed man know that Sunny said there was chocolate pudding? The show seems to imply a much stronger connection between the two right from the get go, possibly to make his kinder treatment of her and his redemption later on in the series appear slightly more plausible. I'm struck by the way O says his theatre production will change everyone's life; this suggests he has already concocted the marriage plot. I have a feeling this is a difference from the book, where one can see the moment he comes up with the plot, and it is accompanied by an apparent change of heart. Does anyone know the details? The main thing that struck me in the book was just how early the Marvelous Marriage plot was introduced. It appears about 40% of the way into the book and subsequently takes up the rest of the plot. Olaf isn't even introduced until the end of the second chapter and at that point it's pretty clear that he has no idea that adopting the children doesn't mean their fortune automatically passes to him. The book doesn't give us a specific amount of time the children stay at his house but it's clearly more than the few days presented in the show. Olaf seems to have been spending a lot of time thinking up plans and when the children eventually go to see Mr Poe, it spooks him into finally putting one into action. In the show Olaf appears to be a lot more aware of things and better organized (at least initially) and I certainly got the sense that he already had the workings of the marriage plot in his head from the very beginning.
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Post by Hermes on Jun 20, 2020 15:01:04 GMT -5
How does the Hook-Handed man know that Sunny said there was chocolate pudding? The show seems to imply a much stronger connection between the two right from the get go, possibly to make his kinder treatment of her and his redemption later on in the series appear slightly more plausible. Yes indeed, but does he understand Sunnyese? That's what puzzled me: Sunny did indeed say that there would be chocolate pudding, but in a way no outsider should be expected to understand.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jun 20, 2020 15:04:32 GMT -5
I think that's just part of the connection. Plus, he also grew up with a baby sister with whom he had a warm and loving bond so that might also explain it.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jun 20, 2020 16:19:21 GMT -5
The show seems to imply a much stronger connection between the two right from the get go, possibly to make his kinder treatment of her and his redemption later on in the series appear slightly more plausible. Yes indeed, but does he understand Sunnyese? That's what puzzled me: Sunny did indeed say that there would be chocolate pudding, but in a way no outsider should be expected to understand. I think it is implied on the show that all babies speak a single language. We all speak this language in life, and some do not forget it, or learn from other babies. In Fernald's case, I believe he learned from Fiona, as he was almost an adult when Fiona was born. They must have taken that idea from what Captain W said in the books: "I don't have time to learn a new language", implying that the language Sunny speaks is like any normal language.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jun 20, 2020 16:34:09 GMT -5
Olaf cannot remember what language he is speaking. Is the point that he cannot remember the word 'English', or is it a hint that he is talking some other language, and we are hearing a translation? I suspect that Olaf only pretends not to have learned knowledge. It would be very strange that they are not speaking English, given that we have so many references to North America in the books. The show loves to play off the odd-mixture of accents and cultural references present in the English version by making jokes about it.
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Post by Uncle Algernon on Jun 20, 2020 17:03:43 GMT -5
In the show Olaf appears to be a lot more aware of things and better organized (at least initially) and I certainly got the sense that he already had the workings of the marriage plot in his head from the very beginning. That's not quite true. He still seems to have assumed (hoped?) that the children would just be able to make withdrawals on their own accord, per the scene of his first meeting with them. Poe remarks that the house is run-down, Olaf pointedly remarks that “with a little bit of [the children's] money” this might be remedied, and this prompts Poe to exposit about the workings of the Baudelaire will, at which point Olaf is visibly startled. This also seems to foul his mood for the rest of the interview, so I doubt it's an act.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Jun 20, 2020 17:19:23 GMT -5
In the show Olaf appears to be a lot more aware of things and better organized (at least initially) and I certainly got the sense that he already had the workings of the marriage plot in his head from the very beginning. That's not quite true. He still seems to have assumed (hoped?) that the children would just be able to make withdrawals on their own accord, per the scene of his first meeting with them. Poe remarks that the house is run-down, Olaf pointedly remarks that “with a little bit of [the children's] money” this might be remedied, and this prompts Poe to exposit about the workings of the Baudelaire will, at which point Olaf is visibly startled. This also seems to foul his mood for the rest of the interview, so I doubt it's an act. But by the late afternoon that very same day he's clearly already gloating about his wedding scheme so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that he had it as a backup plan in case Mr Poe wouldn't allow the children to withdraw money. As I said, the version of Olaf in the show clearly plans ahead a great deal more than the Olaf of TBB, especially since he takes the initiative to divert the children away from Monty and into his care instead.
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