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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 14, 2020 6:01:54 GMT -5
Wow, gothicarchiesfan! This Snicket scholarship is truly impressive. I'll add that it lines up with the things I've heard from various sources over the years. I think I've mentioned it on this board before, but the "VFD agent" subplot also made it into Daniel's script for the sequel -- minus the "young boy agent" and "young girl agent" (which feeds my personal theory that they were intended to be the Quagmires). You can see how those scenes affected the Netflix series too: our Quagmire parents storyline originally had "Mother" and "Father" showing up at the burnt mansion to investigate the fire, but even when we dropped that specific plot, their scenes serve a similar function of introducing VFD early while hinting at larger mysteries. And you can probably trace a direct line from the script's "fight choreographed like a halftime battle" to every scene with Jacqueline and Larry. An odd twist is that, since ASOUE wrapped, I've been developing a (non-Snicket) series with Netflix and we brought on Brad to direct. He and I got to swap Snicket stories and he shared his genuine fandom for what we did with the show. One thing that's easy to forget is that being true to the books has only recently become a priority for YA/middlegrade adaptations. Book readership is so small compared to film/TV viewership that, for decades, in-name-only adaptations were the norm, even for beloved and popular series. The trend towards faithful adaptation is one of the countless ways Harry Potter was a game-changer, and the ASOUE movie was made in the early days of that phenomenon. (Percy Jackson too, but that's another story.) So I know Brad fought to keep the film faithful when that wasn't necessarily everyone's priority, and while certain changes may drive other readers mad, I really love the film we got; seeing it in theaters is what led me to pick up the books in the first place. One of the joys of ASOUE is that its tone is so hard to pin down. It's simultaneously arch and sincere, terrifying and comedic, meta, ironic, philosophical, and melancholy -- and which of these tones you see has a lot to do with what you prioritize as a reader. Any adaptation is going to have to pick its priorities too. (That's why the notion of a third adaptation somewhere in our endless-reboot future feels like a joke that may one day end up coming true.) I suspect the challenging tone was the factor in the film's behind the scenes drama, and the final product is still more faithful than many book adaptations get. And then there's the cinematography, the music, the production design, the costume design... they're all gorgeous and evocative and make the movie a regular go-to when I need an escape. I often see people pitting the show, the movie, and the books against each other, as if a true fan can only support one, but I don't think that's true, and the fact that this series can sustain different (sometimes VERY different) creative visions is one of the things that elevates it. As the meme goes, it's a feature, not a bug. A postscript to my own recent experience: Brad and I were filming in NYC's famous Strand bookstore, and since Daniel was in New York, he came to visit us on set. For someone who has my own relationship with the film, the show, and the books, it felt incredibly special to have associates from all three versions, together in one place, surrounded by books. Thank you very much for responding to my post catastrophist , it really means a lot that someone who was so closely involved with the show still has time to chat with us fans. I'm very glad to hear that you were able to facilitate a meetup between Brad Silberling and Daniel Handler. I've always had a great deal of sympathy for Silberling and it has only increased these last few days as I've been deep-diving into the movie's production. It's clear he had a great deal of enthusiasm for the material but got saddled with a difficult leading man and a studio that undermined his work. One of the bonus features on the DVD shows Silberling still mixing and dubbing the movie just a couple of weeks before release because the studio keeps sending him new edits without warning and it's truly heartbreaking to watch. He just looks so unhappy and exhausted. That's why it's nice to see that he still has a great fondness for it even after all these years and enjoyed the Netflix show's take on the material. Maybe one of these days he'll be allowed to release his cut of the film, even if it's only a workprint edit. #ReleaseTheSilberlingCut? I agree with you that boy agent and girl agent were likely meant to be the Quagmires as it would fit with their roles in the books as the people who first introduce the Baudelaires to the existence of VFD but would not fit with a draft that was a direct sequel to the finished movie. :Edit: Actually, if you don't mind my asking, what role did the Quagmires end up playing in the sequel draft? Did they, or any other characters/locations like Esmé/Nero/Prufrock Prep/667 etc. end up getting merged or cut? Were the rumours about it being a combination of books 5 and 6 true?
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Post by catastrophist on Aug 14, 2020 11:09:24 GMT -5
#ReleaseTheSilberlingCut indeed!
The sequel script that Daniel shared with the writers room was a faithful adaptation of AA and EE, with a brief sequence that comedically compressed MM into a few pages. It influenced our second season in the same way that I think the original film script (seen in excerpts here) influenced the first: the idea of Count Olaf revealing his disguise at a pep rally originated there, as did the subplot of VFD agents trying to get an important book into the Baudelaires' hands (in the script, a coded copy of The Luckiest Kids in the World). But I know there were multiple scripts developed so it's totally possible that one of the other versions conflated characters and books in a less faithful way.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 14, 2020 13:01:37 GMT -5
#ReleaseTheSilberlingCut indeed! The sequel script that Daniel shared with the writers room was a faithful adaptation of AA and EE, with a brief sequence that comedically compressed MM into a few pages. It influenced our second season in the same way that I think the original film script (seen in excerpts here) influenced the first: the idea of Count Olaf revealing his disguise at a pep rally originated there, as did the subplot of VFD agents trying to get an important book into the Baudelaires' hands (in the script, a coded copy of The Luckiest Kids in the World). But I know there were multiple scripts developed so it's totally possible that one of the other versions conflated characters and books in a less faithful way. Thank you very much for putting up with my questions and for your informative responses. It really means a lot. Judging from what you've said, it seems that there were at least three different sequel scripts developed at some point during 2005-2013. Daniel Handler brought up one of them in a radio interview from around 2009, which he mentioned would be stop motion and feature an opening explaining that the previous film had merely been a recreation and had been tampered with by "sinister forces". Lemony Snicket would then show us the fates that befell the child actors, cutting to Liam Aiken as a hobo on the street, Emily Browning in a mental ward, and the Hoffman twins as cackling old women in wheelchairs. He brought up another one of them in an article for the Guardian from around 2013, where he mentioned that it would feature the Quagmires and, more intriguingly, Dr Orwell. :Edit: Speaking of #ReleaseTheSilberlingCut, while doing some research, I noticed that a monitor in the background of one of the DVD extras about sound mixing was playing an edit of the "Count Olaf slaps Klaus" scene that didn't actually feature Klaus getting slapped. And this was with less than a month to go before the release. So while it's clear Silberling did lose a lot of control over the editing process, it's nice to see that he was able to win at least a couple of his battles in the end.
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Post by thathoboravioli on Aug 14, 2020 15:44:08 GMT -5
If we do get #ReleaseTheSilberlingCut to be a thing, then what about a complete/expanded release of the soundtrack? I really want an expanded release of Thomas Newman's masterpiece and maybe also some of the unused demos that I heard in The Sad Score.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 14, 2020 19:09:11 GMT -5
If we do get #ReleaseTheSilberlingCut to be a thing, then what about a complete/expanded release of the soundtrack? I really want an expanded release of Thomas Newman's masterpiece and maybe also some of the unused demos that I heard in The Sad Score. tbh- the full score is far more likely to be released before any kind of new cut of the movie, so you're in luck. There are whole companies that make their living off of just releasing expanded movie scores for the collector market and Thomas Newman is a famous enough composer that his name and it's acclaim (it was nominated for an Oscar, after all) will guarantee sales, it's just a matter of time. The score would also have been recorded and edited digitally as well, so the files are likely just sitting out there, just waiting for someone to gather and release them. The problem with the movie is that it while was shot on film, every edit (apart from the very final cut) was made by copying the footage onto VHS tapes, which were much easier to edit on as they could be purchased and junked at very little expense. That's why the colours and the picture looks so soft and fuzzy on the DVD's deleted scenes; they were never used in the final edit so nobody ever bothered to transfer the actual film. Personally, I'm down to watch his cut in any format but studios, for some reason, seem to hate releasing workprints. Even the (in)famous Snyder Cut is a re-edit of the entire film from the ground up using just the raw footage. Let's keep our fingers crossed though.
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Post by thathoboravioli on Aug 16, 2020 1:24:11 GMT -5
This film feels like one of those bizarre things that should have a documentary about them.
Honestly I was really worried the production of this film was more like what happened with PJO where the author was involved but the studio kept ignoring him and his ideas and as a result we got a film that was nothing like the book (twice). Then again, The Sea of Monsters tried to reinclude stuff that was left out like Dionysus, the Oracle, Clarisse La Rue, the prophecy, etc. so...
I feel like if the ASOUE film did get a sequel, it might have ended up like PJO2 where the entire film feels like it has a different tone than the first to the point where even the score is different (Christophe Beck's Lightning Thief is an adventurous fantasy orchestral score with quite a few recognizable themes, Andrew Lockington's Sea of Monsters is a Zimmer clone crossed with a wannabe post-Avatar/Amazing Spider-Man James Horner with like...two themes: main theme/Percy/darkness and Thalia's one-woman-singing leitmotif)...so I wonder if ASOUE2 would have even brought back Thomas Newman.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 16, 2020 4:04:45 GMT -5
The film's US DVD release contains a gallery of concept art not carried over to either the bluray releases or the international copies. I've created an Imgur gallery for it which I've linked below. imgur.com/a/9Bmtkao:Edit: I've been working on gathering all the pictures/footage we have of the movie's deleted and alternate scenes and they'll be going up later today.
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Post by catastrophist on Aug 16, 2020 10:07:53 GMT -5
That concept art is great; the ASOUEverse really lends itself to gorgeous imagery. While a lot of it looks similar to the final film, there's something interesting in that ferris wheel picture: you've got what looks like a Volkswagen van, a turn-of-the-century motorcar, a horse and buggy, and a 50's automobile all in a row. It indicates to me that they were initially toying with a more obviously anachronistic world, as in the book, before finally settling on the final vision, which features flourishes from different periods but is generally more Edwardian-with-a-steampunk-bent.
One challenge we had on the show, that's interesting to see them grapple with here, is how to make the Baudelaire mansion feel both grand and homey. Make it too big and ornate, and it can feel stuffy and cold, so it's hard to envision the Baudelaires feeling at home there.
I also love the image of the car going over the eye-shaped hill on Lousy Lane. Playful and eerie.
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Post by catastrophist on Aug 16, 2020 10:16:37 GMT -5
Honestly I was really worried the production of this film was more like what happened with PJO where the author was involved but the studio kept ignoring him and his ideas and as a result we got a film that was nothing like the book (twice). Then again, The Sea of Monsters tried to reinclude stuff that was left out like Dionysus, the Oracle, Clarisse La Rue, the prophecy, etc. so... That's a great observation about the score differences in the two PJO movies. To me, a big difference between the ASOUE film and the PJO films is that, while you can argue whether ASOUE works an adaptation, it still works as a film -- and at least in my opinion, the PJO movies fail on both accounts. (Also, shameless plug, if you're a PJO fan who loves music, may I direct you to the musical adaptation of The Lightning Thief? Written by yours truly, with Rick Riordan's seal of approval -- and I promise it's way more faithful than the film.)
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Post by Reba on Aug 16, 2020 11:01:18 GMT -5
i love the movie <3
the severe gothic look is breathtaking, and perfect. even if the books developed into something much more than a gothic pastiche, they certainly started with that in mind, and helquist's influence on the reader's imagination is also undeniable.
the adult actors are all perfect as well. each performance is the perfect balance of funny and upsetting; no one is pure comic relief or pure antagonism/conflict.
as for the baudelaires, well, sunny is a baby; browning has an interesting aura like she actually comes from another time, and she works up some serious anguish, sort of lillian gish vibes. but whathisface is a disappointment at best and absolutely pukeworthy at worst. always my least favorite part of the film, even as a kid. i always cheered when he got smacked.
it's a good point about the tone of the books-- like the plot, the place, and the time, it's totally amorphous. i may have found the colorful, kitsch, everything-but-the-kitchen-sink mentality of the tv show so shocking, not because it was different from the books, but because i always easily ignored that aspect of the books, there being so much else to captivate me.
it's true that jim carrey brings a lot of wackiness to the movie, but the important thing that almost always makes it work for me is that it doesn't seem to be jim carrey hamming it up for the audience. it's count olaf hamming it up diegetically-- the character himself is a pompous entertainer, either trying to show off, or trying to make his troupe laugh. it makes it all the more alarming when he threatens the baudelaires seriously, because he's angry enough to "break character." when the troupe isn't around, and he's hamming up as stephano or sham, i think it also adds a nice level of menace, because then it's like he's intentionally reveling in and pushing his luck with his disguise, as a taunt to the baudelaires.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Aug 16, 2020 13:04:07 GMT -5
Reba, if a movie receives your approval is because it is really good.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 16, 2020 18:31:29 GMT -5
That concept art is great; the ASOUEverse really lends itself to gorgeous imagery. While a lot of it looks similar to the final film, there's something interesting in that ferris wheel picture: you've got what looks like a Volkswagen van, a turn-of-the-century motorcar, a horse and buggy, and a 50's automobile all in a row. It indicates to me that they were initially toying with a more obviously anachronistic world, as in the book, before finally settling on the final vision, which features flourishes from different periods but is generally more Edwardian-with-a-steampunk-bent. One challenge we had on the show, that's interesting to see them grapple with here, is how to make the Baudelaire mansion feel both grand and homey. Make it too big and ornate, and it can feel stuffy and cold, so it's hard to envision the Baudelaires feeling at home there. I also love the image of the car going over the eye-shaped hill on Lousy Lane. Playful and eerie. It's interesting to see that, just like the show, a number of the designs in the concept art were essentially recreated one for one as shots in the finished product. The DVD also included a rare gallery of stills from the production, which I have uploaded below.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 16, 2020 18:38:55 GMT -5
That concept art is great; the ASOUEverse really lends itself to gorgeous imagery. While a lot of it looks similar to the final film, there's something interesting in that ferris wheel picture: you've got what looks like a Volkswagen van, a turn-of-the-century motorcar, a horse and buggy, and a 50's automobile all in a row. It indicates to me that they were initially toying with a more obviously anachronistic world, as in the book, before finally settling on the final vision, which features flourishes from different periods but is generally more Edwardian-with-a-steampunk-bent. One challenge we had on the show, that's interesting to see them grapple with here, is how to make the Baudelaire mansion feel both grand and homey. Make it too big and ornate, and it can feel stuffy and cold, so it's hard to envision the Baudelaires feeling at home there. I also love the image of the car going over the eye-shaped hill on Lousy Lane. Playful and eerie. It's interesting to see that, just like the show, a number of the designs in the concept art were essentially recreated one for one as shots in the finished product. The DVD also included a rare gallery of stills from the production, which I have uploaded below. The third and last of the image galleries included exclusively on the US DVD was a selection of Colleen Atwood's costume designs for the characters. Count Olaf's initial look is especially different from his final design.
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Post by gothicarchiesfan on Aug 16, 2020 19:33:00 GMT -5
Movie Trailers
This is the film's first US trailer, released while filming was still going on due to the delayed schedule. This is the film's second US trailer. The film's international trailer. No video from the english language version remains, so I took a bootleg of its audio and synched it up to an HD copy of the German version. It also includes footage and narration from Lemony Snicket that didn't end up in the finished movie. A TV commercial for the film centred around Violet which includes narration and footage that didn't end up in the final movie. A TV commercial for the film centred around Klaus which includes narration and footage that didn't end up in the final movie. A commercial for the movie's tie-in website, narrated by Jude Law. A behind the scenes video hosted by Liam Aiken. A commercial for a tie-in contest. A TV promo for the movie.
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Post by thathoboravioli on Aug 16, 2020 20:49:58 GMT -5
Honestly I was really worried the production of this film was more like what happened with PJO where the author was involved but the studio kept ignoring him and his ideas and as a result we got a film that was nothing like the book (twice). Then again, The Sea of Monsters tried to reinclude stuff that was left out like Dionysus, the Oracle, Clarisse La Rue, the prophecy, etc. so... That's a great observation about the score differences in the two PJO movies. To me, a big difference between the ASOUE film and the PJO films is that, while you can argue whether ASOUE works an adaptation, it still works as a film -- and at least in my opinion, the PJO movies fail on both accounts. (Also, shameless plug, if you're a PJO fan who loves music, may I direct you to the musical adaptation of The Lightning Thief? Written by yours truly, with Rick Riordan's seal of approval -- and I promise it's way more faithful than the film.) I've heard of the Lightning Thief musical, but I never really saw it, only heard the song about the half-bloods talking about their parents when Percy doesn't know who his dad is
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