|
Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Dec 31, 2020 17:50:29 GMT -5
Daniel Handler evidently changed his mind about what would happen in the ASOUE universe while he wrote TSS, TGG and TPP. I could spend hours writing evidence of this, but that is not the point of this text. The purpose of this text is to advance from this point. Since Daniel Handler changed his plans, what really did he originally plan and what are the differences? Besides, did he change it gradually or did it change everything?
Unfortunately, I don't have time to write a detailed text, so I will make updates as soon as I can. But I have some interesting ideas involving Esmé, and maybe Beatrice.
|
|
|
Post by R. on Dec 31, 2020 18:30:11 GMT -5
You are theorising about Esmé?! I am so excited!
|
|
|
Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 1, 2021 11:11:16 GMT -5
Well ... I can't escape my theory of the great hiatus in LSTUA. For me this theory makes things at LSTUA much more interesting. So, let's start putting together the puzzle involving Esmé.
The first question is: what is the oldest reference (chronologically) in LSTUA to Esmé?
We have the initial E being mentioned in two different contexts in the construction committee. But this reference should not be the oldest, since in the minutes of the construction committee we find the information that G (Geraldine Julienne) had already started to publish the column on secret societies in the DP. So, apparently the oldest reference should be the report on the play One last warning to those who stand in my way. According to Eleonora Poe, Esmé was already working as a Financial Advisor in addition to being an actress. (Page 80 of LSTUA). It is assumed that she was over 18 years old. Daniel Handler insisted that Esmé was still single at this time. (It is evident that he wanted us to assemble a puzzle, as he places these temporal references.) It is important to understand that these events occurred about 15 years (or a little more) before the main events described in ASOUE. So, Esmé's age group at the time of the main events described in ASOUE is around 35 years old. (An age when she could have children, but did not want to have children of her own).
The next reference to Esmé, chronologically, is during Lemony's first escape abroad. To place Lemony's first escape in the chronology of the LSTUA universe, you need to understand the sequence of events involving Lemony. Lemony wrote the bad review just before she got married. (LSTUA page 79). At that time he was engaged. He also wrote a letter to Dr. Charley Patton during his preparations for the wedding. (LSTUA pg. 8) The writing of this letter and the writing of the bad criticism are chronologically very close facts to each other. Chronologically after that, we have the letter from the vineyard of fragant drapes that said in Sebald code that the Count wanted to kill Lemony and Beatrice. Preparations for the wedding were well under way, when Lemony then received another letter: Jacques's letter on pages 97 and 98. This letter was written before Lemony was fired. Since Lemony was fired the day after the review was published, it is assumed that Jacques's letter to Lemony was written on the same day that the review was published. Something interesting about the LSTUA universe is that Lemony, even an adult and about to be married, is called a "new volunteer", someone who has not yet received disguise training.
Here we have a point of divergence between the LSTUA universe and the traditional ASOUE universe. While in the traditional ASOUE universe, volunteers would not be considered new volunteers after having spent more than 15 years training, in the LSTUA universe this is the case. Both Lemony and her older siblings, at the time of Lemony's quasi-marriage, were still in their apprenticeship years. But back to Lemony and Esmé. An interesting detail (which I will recycle in the part about Beatrice) is that Jacques says he will write to Beatrice asking her not to believe what the DP would publish about Lemony. Jacques' request was that Lemony go to the small town of Lake Lachrymose as soon as he became familiar with the disguise kit. According to Jacques, he needed to run. This all indicates urgency. Nothing here seems to indicate that Lemony has yet to go to the construction committee meeting. In fact, the construction committee meeting came after several publications by Geraldine Julienne about VFD. According to Jacques, Lemony's chances of meeting him again could be slim. Lemony followed the instructions, a fact shown on page 95 when compared to pages 109 and 110. The Prospero departed before the appointed time, indicating that Lemony did in fact follow the instructions and (unlike the usual) arrived earlier than usual.
But this is where we find Esmé again. I mean ... someone who was probably Esmé. One person, whose initial was E, said he did not plan to swim. The question is: If that person were really Esmé, would she be planning to go abroad? I think everything indicates that it is. More than that. According to the instructions, there were enemies in disguise in Prospero. Prospero seemed to be carrying members from both sides of the Schism. (After all, it is difficult to split a ship in half). The captain probably needed to impersonate someone who supported the incendiary side of the Schism, so that he could continue to transport members in disguise on the fire-extinguishing side. (An interesting detail about this, which I forgot to mention before, is that Jacques asks Lemony not to write to D. In the universe of LSTUA, the chances of D being Dewey are negligible.
Daniel Handler must not have been thinking of such specific names for the D family until he wrote TPP. Most likely D in LSTUA is Daniel Handler, who is a character in the LSTUA universe.
If you think about it, the play starring Olaf and Esmé did not constitute an explicit declaration of Olaf's animosity against VFD. Olaf and Esmé might even be seen as bad volunteers, but they were not necessarily declared enemies of VFD. Olaf planned to kill Lemony and Beatrice by fire at the wedding party, but that was a plan that ultimately failed. Thus, Olaf and Esmé could very well continue to be considered volunteers at this time, being just volunteers with bad reputations.
Everything indicates to me that the construction committee meeting took place after Lemony's return from abroad. I want to dedicate more time in another text of this thread to explain some details of this meeting. But in this meeting, in the end, Esmé and Olaf declare themselves as enemies of VFD. They have some dangerous item in a box that empowers Olaf to make demands. An important detail is that this was a small meeting, and no one but the members of the meeting would read what had happened at the meeting. In addition, Olaf made demands. This indicates that Olaf and Esmé could continue to act as if they were volunteers, without being chased by the other volunteers. That event simply did not mark the beginning of Olaf's schism. Not openly. Now note the following detail (with the LSTUA universe in mind): Lemony did not speak to Beatrice about her escape abroad. Beatrice was not at the construction committee meeting. Olaf wanted to pose as a volunteer for a long time. All this seems to indicate that in the universe of LSTUA Olaf and Esmé remained with their true evil intentions hidden from the vast majority of volunteers. (It is true that in TGG we know about AA and the deadly fungus MM. But that is not part of the LSTUA universe. It was written later by Daniel Handler.)
Understanding this, we started to understand the letter from R to Kit. R stated that the letters from the vineyards could save the lives of at least three people. These letters indicated, not so clearly, what Esmé and Olaf's true attitudes were. Olaf was a potential killer, and Esmé was an interest. Did R believe that this information could save the lives of Klaus, Violet and Sunny? Could Kit deliver these letters to Mr. Poe to prevent Olaf or Esmé from adopting those children? Was that what R was thinking? I think so.
So, so far we have evidence that Esmé and Olaf had years of bad intensity, but still hidden among the volunteers. This changed with the death of Beatrice and Bertrand. I will stop here for now, due to my time constraints, but all I have written so far are conclusions regarding the time before the main facts narrated in ASOUE.
With regard to Esmé, in LSTUA we find events related to time during the main events of ASOUE and events after the main events of ASOUE.
|
|
|
Post by R. on Jan 1, 2021 11:21:30 GMT -5
Interesting! I have some very different ideas around Esmé, for instance I strongly believe that she never truly supported VFD, just pretended to. I also think that the bad review happened several years before her marriage, and that the building committee meeting took place when L and E were quite young, probably in their early twenties. However, I agree with her age; she is thirty-six in my headcanon.
|
|
|
Post by the panopticountolaf on Jan 1, 2021 11:26:42 GMT -5
This is really excellent, Jean! I haven’t read my copy of UA in a long while, but I’m thinking I’ll crack it open again to look at the passages you mention.
This is a bit off-topic, but what are your thoughts on the mysterious “E” that Lemony thinks is sending the letters from Beatrice the second? (in TBL) In my opinion, it could be anyone really — Esme and Ellington both have motives, though pretending to be Beatrice seems a bit more in character for Ellington than Esme.
|
|
|
Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Jan 1, 2021 11:35:30 GMT -5
Interesting! I have some very different ideas around Esmé, for instance I strongly believe that she never truly supported VFD, just pretended to. I also think that the bad review happened several years before her marriage, and that the building committee meeting took place when L and E were quite young, probably in their early twenties. However, I agree with her age; she is thirty-six in my headcanon. I want to dedicate a lot of time to establish the chronology of when the committee meeting took place. I think this is important for the LSTUA universe. And actually, I think this is one of the challenges included on purpose by Daniel Handler. Here there are purposeful duplications of initials, there are purposeful hints of events cited in LSTUA itself. I think it is a challenge that must be overcome and there is a way to overcome it canonically (taking into account the premise of the LSTUA universe). This is really excellent, Jean! I haven’t read my copy of UA in a long while, but I’m thinking I’ll crack it open again to look at the passages you mention. Oh, thanks! This is a bit off-topic, but what are your thoughts on the mysterious “E” that Lemony thinks is sending the letters from Beatrice the second? (in TBL) In my opinion, it could be anyone really — Esme and Ellington both have motives, though pretending to be Beatrice seems a bit more in character for Ellington than Esme. As much as that "E" is from Eligton, and that would be a great canonical link between ASOUE and ATWQ, I don't believe Daniel Handler thought about the names of the ATWQ characters until he wrote ATWQ. I don't know if I just had that feeling, but the names of the ATWQ characters seem to have come from someone else's mind. In fact, it was the same person's mind after some time had passed. When Daniel Handler wrote ATWQ he was not the same author who wrote ASOUE, so his creativity was in another vibe. So that "E" is certainly Esme's. This clearly points to the fact that Lemony Snicket believed that Esmé could be alive after the Hotel D fire.(This does not mean that she was necessarily indeed alive, unfortunately).
|
|
|
Post by the panopticountolaf on Jan 1, 2021 11:48:11 GMT -5
As much as that "E" is from Eligton, and that would be a great canonical link between ASOUE and ATWQ, I don't believe Daniel Handler thought about the names of the ATWQ characters until he wrote ATWQ. I don't know if I just had that feeling, but the names of the ATWQ characters seem to have come from someone else's mind. In fact, it was the same person's mind after some time had passed. When Daniel Handler wrote ATWQ he was not the same author who wrote ASOUE, so his creativity was in another vibe. So that "E" is certainly Esme's. This clearly points to the fact that Lemony Snicket believed that Esmé could be alive after the Hotel D fire.(This does not mean that she was necessarily indeed alive, unfortunately). You’re probably right. Sigh. Usually I’m not much interested in the subject of ATWQ characters in ASOUE (I’m a pretty big believer in coincidences when it comes to the Snicketverse), but the idea of Ellington trying to destroy V.F.D./get back at Lemony fascinates me... This is way off topic. Apologies.
|
|
|
Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 11, 2021 13:31:14 GMT -5
Esmé and Carmelita survived for many years after the main events of ASOUE.
To understand this concept, it is important to understand that the Hotel D fire as described in TPP had not been planned when LSTUA was published. Not even the events at Hotel D such as the fact that the peufrock prep teachers are in the hotel. Thus, in LSTUA, Daniel Handler created a story that stretched for many years after the main events narrated in ASOUE. And in this story Carmelita and Esmé are still alive.
But, on the other hand, in the LSTUA universe, Esmé never adopted Carmelita.
Although it is possible to imagine a plot in which Carmelita returns to peufrock prep, and that teachers Remora and Bass and vice principal Nero survive and return to Peufrock Prep, and Mrs. Bass continues to rob banks, the fact is that chapter 8 it has a simple form to be understood in the LSTUA universe.
Mr and Mrs Spats sent a letter to Nero regarding the dangerous books. Among these books was at least one of ASOUE's volumes. Lemony had already managed to publish ASOUE's books after several attempts which took some time, possibly a few years, as indicated in the letter that Lemony sent to cheesemakers about Sebald, and in Sally's letter to Lemony.
So, in the LSTUA universe, Carmelita simply stayed in Peufrock Prep for many years after her meeting in Peufrock Prep with the Baudelaires. She even wrote a book about her own life, as indicated in chapter 10, on page 171. Carmelita's autobiography is really a big book, as the page quoted in LSTUA is page 793. The phraseology used seems to indicate that Carmelita is narrating her own life at school sometime after she leaves school.
She narrates a meeting with the Peufrock Prep Librarian. This librarian asks the same question about her mother. The same question that this Librarian had asked with Genius' assistant and Lemony Snicket. And as you may remember, this code indicated that the Librarian needed to deliver an object to someone unknown. If you think that after the events involving miss K, the days of peufrock Prep were numbered.
We also know that when Lemony published TAA, Peufrock Prep was already closed for many years. Evidently this idea remained valid, since the visits to Mrs. Bass' bank were evidence that she would soon be arrested and then Profrok would close. This leaves a gap of time so that, after the publication of some of ASOUE's books, Peufrock Prep would remain open for some years. At that time the new librarian worked there, and started using the code whenever he heard someone humming a specific song. Carmelita's life was apparently much less exciting (and probably longer) in the LSTUA universe. What about Esmé?
I mean that Lemony, even in the traditional universe of ASOUE, of which TBL is a part, believes that Esmé most likely is alive at the time when he received one of the letters from Beatrice Jr. In the universe of LSTUA, in chapter 10 we have the information of that Esmé has a fan club. This fan club won the mamba du mal leather. This purchase of the snake choir came after Genius' henchman went to Peufrock Prep, which happened after the publication of some of ASOUE's books, which happened after some years had passed since the time of the main events narrated in ASOUE. Although it is possible that the fan club is in honor of a dead actress, the simplest reading is that Esmé herself influenced the purchase of the snake leather.
Of course, Olaf could be behind this. Perhaps Olaf did not die so prematurely in the LSTUA universe. But I think he died and few people knew about it. I think Olaf's death has already been announced with the rope in the family tree, indicating that Daniel Handler wanted to kill Olaf. And I think that's why the name Genius was chosen - a title that Esmé herself gave to herself in the LSTUA universe.
|
|