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Post by counto on Feb 12, 2021 3:56:24 GMT -5
Ok, so I been thinking a lot about the ASOUE fandom and my past headcanons and theories.
One thing that I really have been thinking about is how everything fits together in the same fictional universe, concerning the timeline. I know that ASOUE is supposedly set in somewhere in the 20th century (exact date unknown) and supposedly takes place on the Year of the Rat zodiac as hinted by Daniel Handler aka Lemony Snicket.
It seems simple enough right? Well it's not.
When I first read ASOUE when I was child I always thought it took place in the 1920's judging by the character illustrations. However upon re-entering the fandom years later and observing the content, I found that there were several indications that the series takes place way after the 20's.
At first I tried linking the dates of the timeline using various in-verse literature references, but came up sort. Another thing I did was try to put all the out of date or in date timeline events like the super computer in TAA or when the song Another Brick in The Wall by Pink Floyd is played in TMM.
I'm one of those people who love using timelines to better help sort out which events took place and how many years in between happened. I personally thought it would've taken place somewhere in the 1950's or 60's. Or an alternate late 90's universe. But that's just my opinion.
One thing we do know is that ASOUE is a Suburban Gothic.
If you don't know what that means, look up or watch Tim Burton's Edward Scissorhands to help you better understand.
Anyway what I've decided to do is create an open tread here were we together can make our own ASOUE Non-Canon Timeline together. Now I don't know what dates were going to use yet, but any suggestions would be helpful. Let me know what you guys think.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 12, 2021 4:24:23 GMT -5
You can count on me. But I have to warn you that this will not be easy. We need to establish some principles that will guide research. My theories are volatile and depend a lot on the beliefs I have at the moment, so without principles that cannot be questioned, this will not work for me. For example, from my current point of view, ATWQ and LSTUA take place in different universes of ASOUE (albeit similar). Will you agree with that? In other words, some events only ASOUE universe happened on different dates or simply did not happen. Second, from my point of view Lemony published ASOUE a few years after the main events described in asoue. This aspect is very important to me. Going back to talking about the LSTUA universe and the traditional ASOUE universe, I believe that everything that happened until the main events narrated in THH happened in an identical way in both universes. But from there, things may have happened differently. I consider TBL the same universe of ASOUE and that this follows exactly the same timeline. I don't think that in the traditional universe of ASOUE Lemony went to SBTS. I believe that the point of divergence between the universes happened when Lemony got in S. Theodora's car. This means that in the traditional ASOUE universe, Lemony actively helped Kit to get what was in the museum, Kit was never captured and she never met Eligton. Lemony's preventive war, quoted in an anagram in TBL, did in fact happen in the traditional ASOUE universe, but it did not happen in the ATWQ universe. And just to make it clear about the LSTUA universe, I believe that despite the sequence of events being the same until THH, the universes in which the events take place are different. I think it really affects the aesthetics of how I imagine both universes ... But it also affects the timeline. In LSTUA there is confirmation that Lemony published the first two ASOUE books in 1999 and that a book mentioned in chapter 10 was published in 2001. This makes the events recorded in LSTUA and in the asoue books published in that universe, something much more recent. . On the other hand, in the traditional ASOUE universe, similar events may have occurred but on a different date. asoue.proboards.com/thread/36143/mallahan-brochureI recommend that you read the first chapters of my Fanfic, where my narrator establishes a way to calculate the ASOUE timeline. It is a Fanfic, which did not plan to be taken seriously. But it still contains interesting principles for research. But I believe you will like it. Maria Mallahan considers everything happening in the same universe. As I was the real author of this Fanfic, I can consider everything happening in a single universe, without problems as long as this is the principle adopted. Of course, thinking in this way will lead to other chronological problems, which will need to be corrected in some other way. I really should finish this Fanfic. But it takes a lot of time for historical research, and I need to be in the mood and time for that. But Fanfic was getting really cool.
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Post by counto on Feb 12, 2021 19:39:35 GMT -5
Well I'm glad I got your support Jean, though I can't say I agree with your whole multiverse theory. But I think we can focus on the main events of ASOUE than ATWQ.
I read your fanfic and I gotta say you did a really good job. The amount of research and study you put in really amazes me. And yes I'd love to see more of it if you can.
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Post by counto on Feb 22, 2021 5:12:05 GMT -5
Ok so, I was thinking that ASOUE should probably be set somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's at best. But since since the world of ASOUE does include such outdated technology (example: telegram machine, Morse Code) which went way after this time period, a safer and more accurate timeline would probably be set either in the 1950's or 60's. At least a more technological advanced alternate universe.
If that being the case the VFD Schism would likely take place in the 1930's or 40's (WWII era presumably).
So let's say that ASOUE is set in the year 1964. The reason I chose this random year was because of all the things going at that time period. The Civil Rights act was put in motion, the Cold War was just getting started two years after the Cuban Missile Crisis and it was also 6 years before Daniel Handler's birth.
Violet would be born in 1950, Klaus in 1952 and Sunny in 1963.
Sounds plausible, right? Beatrice and Bertrand I imagine being in their early mid 30's (36). So they'd be born in 1928, Beatrice and Bertrand would be 22 when Violet was born.
Lemony likely be a year younger being 35, born in 1929. Meaning the Schism would take place around then, just as the Stock Market and Great Depression took place.
Since the story of ASOUE takes over a year, or at least until Violet and Klaus age up, Beatrice II would be born early 1965.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 22, 2021 6:01:14 GMT -5
I have to disagree. If we are going to do this together, we will need to disagree on several points. ASOUE is anachronistic, there is no doubt. But it is easier to accept that an old technology has remained than to accept that a recent technology has emerged in the past. Look at our world: you several communities in Africa and the Middle East still use medieval technology. And look at the Mennonite communities: they don't accept using modern technology at all. Animal worship practiced on TVV is still common in parts of India.
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Post by R. on Feb 22, 2021 7:49:17 GMT -5
I agree. We are definitely talking about a post-apocalyptic future or a parallel universe in the vein of His Dark Materials here.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 22, 2021 8:06:12 GMT -5
Regarding world wars: I believe that the first world war in Asoue actually started in 1914, because the events recorded in Asoue are very similar to the events in our universe. (After all, the lesson remains is never to assassinate Archduke Ferdinando). If Lemony calls the "first" war "first" it is a fact that there was the "second war" in the world, after all no one would call the Great War "first" before there was a "second".
I do not agree that the VFD Great Schism was the second world war. The VFD Great Schism seems to be an internal and specific event for the country where the event unfolds. On the other hand, the war that Colonel Colofon fought in is called "the war", and I think people used to call wars that way when they or their relatives lived during the war (similarly we will call "the time of pandemic "when we refer to 2020 and 2021, although other pandemics have happened before). So, I think "the war" mentioned in ATWQ is the second world war.
So, I think that ATWQ taking place in the 70's is the best decision, in my view. Another important factor that needs to be taken into account in the ASOUE universe is that North America is divided into cities, kingdoms, states, and even an empire. The country is likely to be a cluster of different cultures and each location has its predominant clothing and technology, as well as different fashion.
The city of VFD in TVV is quite different from The City despite being contemporary. SBTS is a very different city that has had its peak in the past, but it is possible to see a modern city there.
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Post by counto on Feb 23, 2021 2:17:57 GMT -5
Fair enough, so if ATWQ takes place in the 70's possibly 1975 (since they mentioned books like Danny The Champion of The World and Nobody's Family is Going to Change). That fitting perfectly with WWII ending three decades earlier, the same time the statue of Colonel Colophon was built and blown up. Lemony is 12 years old at the time in the book. Meaning he would be born in 1963.
At some point when Lemony was a young adult he worked at the Daily Punctilio before he was fired and proposed to Beatrice. 18 years old is a safe bet, since that's the legal age to work and marry. All this taking place in 1981 if my calculations are correct. It's mentioned that a year before Lemony fakes his death, R becomes Duchess of Winnipeg. I'm estimating that R worked at TDP around the time Lemony first started, but left early due to her mother's death.
We can assume that same year Lemony was fired after giving Olaf's play a bad review. So Lemony would've have faked his death in 1982. Afterwards (a year later) Beatrice marries Bertrand and live on the Island for a year before Violet is born. Making Violet birth in 1984. 1984 + 14 = 1998 (if that's true than ASOUE takes place between 1998/99) around the same time ASOUE was published in 1999 by Daniel Handler. Lemony may also have started to publish his research around the same time.
The epilogue of The End takes place a year after in 2000, the start of a new millennium. Post ASOUE (10 years later) in 2009, three years after Lemony publishes The End he would meet Beatrice II for the first time.
What's your thoughts on this? Do you think it's possible?
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 23, 2021 3:14:19 GMT -5
If we consider the year of the rat to be true, I think 1996 is the ideal year for at least some of the ASOUE events. However, I would put the events involving SBTS in 1977 because it was in the year of the snake that Lemony sent the letter to Beatrice (LS to BB # 2). He was still in theoretical training, so that letter was sent before STBS and after Lemony's first date with Beatrice (LS to BB # 1). In this case, Lemony would have been born in 1965. He would have been 31 in 1996, in the year of the rat.
I think this is appropriate, since in 1999 he could publish TBB and TVV, and say that Klaus spent years wondering if he could have saved Uncle Monty. In this case, he spent the rest of 1996, 1997, 1998 (when Lemony found the records left by the children on the island) and then in 1999 Lemony managed to publish.
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Post by counto on Feb 27, 2021 22:39:30 GMT -5
Ok so if Lemony was born in 1965 and ATWQ takes place in 1977 (in which he is 12 years old), then he would be 18 in 1983. Which doesn't add up becomes if ASOUE takes place in the the year of the Rat (1996), then Violet would've been born in 1981 making her 14-15 in the main series.
Meaning Lemony would be too young to begin with, cause Lemony had to graduate, work at the Daily Punctilio and later propose to Beatrice (legal age to work or marry being 18+).
In the LSTUA, a photograph of what we presume is a young Lemony (possibly in his early 20's) with the date Oct 1977.
Now we know that the world of ASOUE is anachronistic, well who's to say that books published in the Snicket-Verse are anachronistic too. Meaning some would be published at later or earlier dates then our universe. For example lets say books like Danny the Champion of the World or Nobody's Family is Changing Today which were published in the 70's, could be published in the 60's.
We know or at least theorise that Lemony was born on the year of the snake (1953, 1965, 1977, 1989, 2001 ect).
Lets say that Lemony is born in 1953, now plus by 18 he would've graduated in 1971. Giving him 6 years to work, propose to Beatrice and fake his death in 1977.
Making Lemony 43 in ASOUE if the series does take place in 1996.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 28, 2021 6:24:23 GMT -5
We have to consider whether Kit would be able to get pregnant in 1996/1997. She is at least a little older than Lemony.
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Post by counto on Feb 28, 2021 17:34:45 GMT -5
Well if we consider that Kit and Jacques are 2 years older than Lemony (both them being twins), that would make them 44-45 in 1995/1996.
We have speculated that the events of ASOUE like takes place over a year. So let's say that the first part of ASOUE (TBB, TRR, TWW, TMM, TAA, TEE) takes place in 1995 and the second part (TVV, THH, TCC, TSS, TGG, TPP and TE) all take place in 1996 the year that Beatrice II is born.
Given that pregnancy takes at least 9 months give or take, Beatrice II would've been have to conceived some point in mid 1995 (presumably before the Baudelaire Fire).
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 28, 2021 17:46:29 GMT -5
Well ... TSS certainly does not pass in the winter. Winter in the northern part of the planet starts in December. If there is a new year during the main events described in ASOUE, we need to take into account that from TVV, only a few weeks pass. If it was already winter in TSS, then the turn of the year should not have happened in the final stage of the books, but in the initial stage of the books, right? Or if it was in the final stage ... there is no Hanukkah. I think the final books must have taken place in January or February.
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Post by counto on Feb 28, 2021 21:48:41 GMT -5
Ok, so if the last books THH, TSS, TCC, TSS, TGG, TPP, TE takes place at the start of the new year (1996), then the first books TBB, TRR, TWW, TMM, TAA, TEE, TVV must take place in the middle of 1995 to the near end of it in TVV (somewhere near early November or late October). At that point Klaus turns 13 while incarcerated in TVV, meaning his birthday is either in October or November.
And if so, the Baudelaire Fire may have occurred in March 1995.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Feb 28, 2021 23:15:29 GMT -5
I think Hanukkah or Christmas took place on TVV, since the people of the city worshiped crows, not being a member of Abrahamic religions. So that's why Hanukkah and Christmas's absence on the record.
In 1995 Hanukkah was Sunday, 17 December 1995 and ended on Monday, 25 December 1995.
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