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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 5, 2022 13:43:13 GMT -5
I like that theory. Like you said, VFD and Judaism is not one and the same, but it's possible that the meaning of sugar was derived from this symbolic aspect.
(Not quite related, but: I just had the sad momentary feeling of looking forward to what Hermes is going to reply to the idea.)
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Post by R. on Apr 5, 2022 15:07:41 GMT -5
This is a great theory, but I don’t like to associate my religion, Judaism, with VFD aka the antithesis of everything I stand for.
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Apr 5, 2022 16:34:54 GMT -5
This is a great theory, but I don’t like to associate my religion, Judaism, with VFD aka the antithesis of everything I stand for. I thought you were an atheist, Roxy.
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Post by Esmé's meme is meh on Apr 5, 2022 17:06:03 GMT -5
Sugar, she's refined, for a small price she blows my mind
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Post by Optimism is my Phil-osophy on Apr 5, 2022 17:20:51 GMT -5
Regarding sugar, it sounds like a really interesting concept. However, I am under the impression that VFD is not at all related to the Jewish religion, despite being related to the Jewish people. I mean, in book 13, the Baudelaires even eat food that would be considered inappropriate for a practitioner of the Jewish religion, and this is done without any kind of dramatic overcoming... They just eat as if it had never crossed their minds that there would be some kind of religious restriction on that food. And when Dewey talks about one of the first volunteers in book 12, he does not name any known member of the Jewish religion, but a Hellenic thinker. That being said, I should highlight a strong point of the theory: in refusing sugar in tea, VFD members actually cite a religious text written by a religious Jew, which can be found in the Bible at Proverbs 5:4. In the original context of the quote, the lips of an immoral woman are compared to something that appears to be sweet but actually has bitter consequences like absinthe. It is still said that such lips are like a sword. If indeed there is any kind of religious justification for avoiding sweetening tea with sugar, I think it would be necessary to somehow relate to this quote. However, I don't see how. I think the simplest explanation is that everything is part of a code created some time ago without the current VFD members being able to fully understand the origin and that by coincidence the SB was also linked to the VFD actions by Kit having the idea of store important and small things in an SB.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Apr 5, 2022 19:50:14 GMT -5
I like this theory a lot.
Your mention of tattoos made me realise that of course there IS a link there, as well; the serial number tattoos of the concentration camps, and also the stars of David which Jews in Nazi Germany were forced to sew on to their clothes, along with various other marks in other countires at different times.
Again, it's not at all an exact 1:1 analogy; the symbols forced on to Jews were of course part of a concerted oppression in the service of genocide, whereas the VFD tattoos are created and used by and for VFD members; it's not something imposed on them by others. It's interesting to me because (from what I understand) voluntarily tattooing oneself is forbidden in the Torah (of course, we know within VFD it's not always exactly voluntary, with the children involved, etc., but still, it's a group policy).
I don't exactly have a point, but I find this sugar theory of yours fascinating, and I think there could be lots to explore that way. It feels like a refreshing angle to view the series through; not something which actually changes anything per se, but just a new perspective.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Apr 5, 2022 21:50:00 GMT -5
My mind also went to concentration camp tattoos for a moment, but I think it's highly unlikely that that's what Handler had in mind when coming up with the eye tattoo - mainly for the reasons Violent Bun already pointed out: the camp tattoos were inmate numbers and a sign of oppression (star of David cloths too). It would be morally very questionable at best to turn this into a symbol of recognition for the group itself (if VFD is Judaism).
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Post by R. on Apr 6, 2022 1:41:31 GMT -5
This is a great theory, but I don’t like to associate my religion, Judaism, with VFD aka the antithesis of everything I stand for. I thought you were an atheist, Roxy. I don’t believe in God, but my family is Jewish and many Jewish cultural ideas are very important to me.
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Post by Violent BUN Fortuna on Apr 6, 2022 5:04:15 GMT -5
My mind also went to concentration camp tattoos for a moment, but I think it's highly unlikely that that's what Handler had in mind when coming up with the eye tattoo - mainly for the reasons Violent Bun already pointed out: the camp tattoos were inmate numbers and a sign of oppression (star of David cloths too). It would be morally very questionable at best to turn this into a symbol of recognition for the group itself (if VFD is Judaism). Just wanted to note that I absolutely agree with this -- I don't think the two things are the same at all, and certainly not deliberately meant as parallels; it was more something which came to mind in light of Semby's sugar theory than anything else.
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TheAsh
Formidable Foreman
Posts: 175
Likes: 99
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Post by TheAsh on Apr 27, 2022 23:35:31 GMT -5
Regarding sugar, it sounds like a really interesting concept. However, I am under the impression that VFD is not at all related to the Jewish religion, despite being related to the Jewish people. I mean, in book 13, the Baudelaires even eat food that would be considered inappropriate for a practitioner of the Jewish religion, and this is done without any kind of dramatic overcoming... They just eat as if it had never crossed their minds that there would be some kind of religious restriction on that food. And when Dewey talks about one of the first volunteers in book 12, he does not name any known member of the Jewish religion, but a Hellenic thinker. That being said, I should highlight a strong point of the theory: in refusing sugar in tea, VFD members actually cite a religious text written by a religious Jew, which can be found in the Bible at Proverbs 5:4. In the original context of the quote, the lips of an immoral woman are compared to something that appears to be sweet but actually has bitter consequences like absinthe. It is still said that such lips are like a sword. If indeed there is any kind of religious justification for avoiding sweetening tea with sugar, I think it would be necessary to somehow relate to this quote. However, I don't see how. I think the simplest explanation is that everything is part of a code created some time ago without the current VFD members being able to fully understand the origin and that by coincidence the SB was also linked to the VFD actions by Kit having the idea of store important and small things in an SB. There's no question IMO that VFD is related to the Jews. (I am an Orthodox Jew and I can see many references.) There's no question that the Baudelaires are irreligious Jews, and are basically symbolic of the Jew who is unable to assimilate no matter how much they want to. In contrast, the full fledged VFD members are committed Jews, while the VFD members on the Island are Ultra-religious Jews, who try to cut themselves off from the world. I believe the Great Schism represents the Holocaust, while the smaller Schisms are the antisemetiv attacks the Jews have faced throughout their existence.
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