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Post by lauren on Apr 10, 2005 5:32:19 GMT -5
I reckon that niether the baud mum nor dad survived the fire. Why cos if you take notice, none of the books say that it was a baudelaire parent who survived the fire they only say that there was a survivor of the fire. In TBB rare edition it says that the baudelaire parents had a rude visitor on the day of the fire...rude?and someone who likes to drink wine...No doubt, i think that must have been count olaf. Therefore Lemony thought he might kill Olaf, knowing that he would be there that day and so sets fire to the house soon realising he has killed his love Beatrice. Olaf escapes via the secret passageway to dark avenue and alas he is the survivor of the fire and what an unfortunate event that will be when the baudelaire children find out this...what do u think? pretty abstract...but i think itwould be prety funny ;D
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Post by Dante on Apr 10, 2005 5:35:25 GMT -5
A theory which I myself have considered, although it doesn't fit in with the message in Zombies in the Snow, etc.
This is now the who-survived-the-fire? thread.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Apr 10, 2005 5:39:34 GMT -5
I think Lemony's far too noble to kill Olaf, and it's fairly well-established that Olaf started the fire(such as the "...and arson" comment in TWW). However, could Olaf be counted as a "survivor" if he started the fire and then ran out of the house, possibly through the secret passageway, to escape it? It would certainly be an interesting and tragic twist.
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Post by PJ on Apr 10, 2005 5:44:53 GMT -5
Nice idea, but Lemony wouldn't burn down the baudelaires house. Besides, there is a VERY high chance that Mrs. Baudelaire is the survivor. See my theory in the theory section.
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Post by Dante on Apr 10, 2005 5:53:28 GMT -5
Allow me to clarify that I had considered Olaf as the survivor, not that Lemony burnt the place down.
I think it would be especially awful if the fire at the Baudelaire mansion had been an accident - Mr. Baudelaire had knocked an oil-lamp over in the brandy, or something.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Apr 10, 2005 5:58:14 GMT -5
I think it would be especially awful if the fire at the Baudelaire mansion had been an accident - Mr. Baudelaire had knocked an oil-lamp over in the brandy, or something. That's an interesting possibility indeed, and one that I don't think I've considered before. Or maybe Olaf rigged the "accident" while the parents weren't looking, and then "accidentally" knocked over the lamp into a puddle of spilled brandy next to some flammable material.
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Post by PJ on Apr 10, 2005 6:16:14 GMT -5
Allow me to clarify that I had considered Olaf as the survivor, not that Lemony burnt the place down. I think it would be especially awful if the fire at the Baudelaire mansion had been an accident - Mr. Baudelaire had knocked an oil-lamp over in the brandy, or something. Interesting, I hadn't thought of it being Olaf... But at that time, wasn't he thought dead? And isn't the file filed under "Baudelaires"? No, Mrs. Baudelaire is more likely, but Olaf is definately a suspect.
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Post by Jacques the Environmentalist on Apr 10, 2005 18:28:16 GMT -5
That would SUCK if Olaf was the survivor. But I must once again use the fountain note in bbre to point out the Mrs. baud is the likey survivor(if you use that in conjunction with the 'mr. baudelaire and Jacques Snicket not rising up' in tss)
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Apr 11, 2005 4:59:42 GMT -5
Interesting, I hadn't thought of it being Olaf... But at that time, wasn't he thought dead? I'm not sure if Olaf was thought dead at the time of the Baudelaire fire. Elaborate? What if Olaf hadn't intended to destroy the mansion(whose library probably contained valuble information), but merely to kill the parents, and he accidentally started a huge fire? That just came to me, and I don't think it quite works.
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Post by PJ on Apr 11, 2005 20:19:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure if Olaf was thought dead at the time of the Baudelaire fire. Elaborate? You misunderstand me. In THH, Olaf is thought dead, so the survivors whereabouts would be known, as they still have Jacques corpse, which they think is Olaf's. Although it could be that no one updated the file in a while.... What if Olaf hadn't intended to destroy the mansion(whose library probably contained valuble information), but merely to kill the parents, and he accidentally started a huge fire? That just came to me, and I don't think it quite works. Perhaps, but I doubt it. Olaf likes making fires, and burning down libraries. Besides, if he murdered the parents, then burning down their mansion would dissipate any suspicions about a murder, it would be a simple "accident".
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Post by Dante on Apr 12, 2005 1:14:05 GMT -5
You misunderstand me. In THH, Olaf is thought dead, so the survivors whereabouts would be known, as they still have Jacques corpse, which they think is Olaf's. Although it could be that no one updated the file in a while.... Correction: The general public believe Olaf to be dead. I imagine that V.F.D. has more reliable sources of information than The Daily Punctilio. If you recall correctly, the Snicket File was written by the Snicket siblings.
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Post by PJ on Apr 12, 2005 1:22:34 GMT -5
Correction: The general public believe Olaf to be dead. I imagine that V.F.D. has more reliable sources of information than The Daily Punctilio. If you recall correctly, the Snicket File was written by the Snicket siblings. Ah yes, how stupid of me.... But the file WAS taken away by the authorities....they might have changed it, but they forgot the last page....so ok.
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Post by Dante on Apr 12, 2005 1:59:57 GMT -5
Ah yes, how stupid of me.... But the file WAS taken away by the authorities....they might have changed it, but they forgot the last page....so ok. Depends who these authorities are. It sounds like the police, but then how did it end up in the Valley of Four Drafts? We've had that discussion before, I'm sure. Let's not revisit it. To clarify: My original theory, which I though of quite some time ago, was that Olaf was indeed at the Baudelaire mansion on the day of the fire, arguing with the parents for whatever reason, and then the fire was started accidentally (through some means or other, such as the one I suggested earlier). Olaf managed to escape, and concealed himself in one of the fountains (probably the Fickle Fountain, as the city's Finance District (where the Fountain of Victorious Finance can be found) is likely further away from the Baudelaire mansion than the Fickle Fountain) to avoid detection and capture. The problem with such a theory is that the Zombies in the Snow message - which must refer to the Baudelaire fire or it makes no sense - would not make any sense, as Olaf wasn't hiding in any snowmen, and he was the wicked assistant, and etc. V.F.D. wouldn't exactly want to invite the Baudelaires up to the Alps to meet him in a snowman, especially when he was right next to them in the theater.
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Post by PJ on Apr 12, 2005 4:45:47 GMT -5
Depends who these authorities are. It sounds like the police, but then how did it end up in the Valley of Four Drafts? We've had that discussion before, I'm sure. Let's not revisit it. To clarify: My original theory, which I though of quite some time ago, was that Olaf was indeed at the Baudelaire mansion on the day of the fire, arguing with the parents for whatever reason, and then the fire was started accidentally (through some means or other, such as the one I suggested earlier). Olaf managed to escape, and concealed himself in one of the fountains (probably the Fickle Fountain, as the city's Finance District (where the Fountain of Victorious Finance can be found) is likely further away from the Baudelaire mansion than the Fickle Fountain) to avoid detection and capture. The problem with such a theory is that the Zombies in the Snow message - which must refer to the Baudelaire fire or it makes no sense - would not make any sense, as Olaf wasn't hiding in any snowmen, and he was the wicked assistant, and etc. V.F.D. wouldn't exactly want to invite the Baudelaires up to the Alps to meet him in a snowman, especially when he was right next to them in the theater. Indeed. But it simply says "a survivor" not THE survivor. It could be Quigley, or another survivor. But that chance is rather small. No I still believe it is Mrs. Baudelaire, or some random who we haven't met yet.
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Post by Dante on Apr 12, 2005 5:10:48 GMT -5
Indeed. But it simply says "a survivor" not THE survivor. It could be Quigley, or another survivor. But that chance is rather small. No I still believe it is Mrs. Baudelaire, or some random who we haven't met yet. As I said, if the message doesn't refer to the Baudelaire fire, then it doesn't make sense. It would be utterly pointless to communicate to Monty that they had a survivor of a random unspecified fire and then told him to bring the Baudelaires along.
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