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Post by TopHat on Oct 15, 2006 0:05:59 GMT -5
The books give places for Sunny to be afterwards(the radio show) and Violet(the FFP and briny beach) but what happens to Klaus?
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Post by fraulita on Oct 15, 2006 0:32:21 GMT -5
did anyone notice a possible code going on when ishmael was talking to the bauds about the book beneath the tree?
it begins on page 215. a frown and a blink means no, while just a frown could mean yes. Later on when Ish and Olaf have their duke out (page 251), the same code works.
What do u think?
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noble
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 14
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Post by noble on Oct 15, 2006 0:35:21 GMT -5
i bought, i read it in a day, i understand, i am puzzled, i laughed for joy, i cried for sadness, i have answers but even more questions, i need help
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Post by drearydreary on Oct 15, 2006 0:47:56 GMT -5
is there any sebald code? the word ring was mentioned several times.
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noble
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 14
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Post by noble on Oct 15, 2006 1:03:50 GMT -5
OMFG!!!! i was looking at the dedication to Chapter Fourteen when i saw a poem. i googled it and this is what i found:
its a stanza in a poem by Charle Baudelaire. Charle was not made up by lemony so i think this is where he got the idea for baudelaire. the poem is in latian
here is the poem translated:
Ô Mort, old captain, he(it) is time! Let us weight anchor(get going)!
This country annoys us, ô Died! Let us sail!
If the sky and the sea are ink-black,
Our hearts which you know are filled(performed) with beams(shelves)!
FRICK YA!!!! I FOUND SOMETHING BEFORE EVERYONE ELES!!!!
*bows*
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Post by hottytoddy on Oct 15, 2006 1:38:20 GMT -5
Actually that has been said...
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Post by PJ on Oct 15, 2006 1:39:24 GMT -5
FRICK YA!!!! I FOUND SOMETHING BEFORE EVERYONE ELES!!!! *bows* Congratulations on that. And code with frowning and blinking? Naaah, I just think it was to illustrate how the Baudelaires aren't the only ones who have suffered misfortune, and there are other, similiar Series of Unfortunate Events going on. |
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Gunther
Reptile Researcher
Posts: 19
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Post by Gunther on Oct 15, 2006 1:50:24 GMT -5
I'll have to admit that I have not gotten to read all of your posts yet, but as soon as I do, I'll edit this to respond to the posts that captured my interest.
I would like to notice, without this turning into a religious debate that the island seemed to represent the Garden of Eden. The island was viewed as a safe place where eventually evil is introduced. We also have the most obvious reference in the end of chapter 12. The IDV offers the children fruit from the tree. Inside the tree was a library containing the knowledge of good an evil. Reading this through the lense of my religion, I saw that the Bauds had to make a choice to live in a sheltered world, just as Adam and Eve had to to choose to live in a state of innocene knowing no evil, or living in an existance where they will know good because they experience evil.
Overall, I have mixed feelings. I feel cheated out of closuer, but at the same time I got exactly what Lemony promised: the end of this chapter in the Baudalares's story.
"I'm confused. Is this a good ending or a bad ending?"
"It's an ending."
I may have butchered the Simpsons reference, but that scene pretty much sums up my feelings.
Edit: I didn't realize I'd be the first to point this out, but in the middle of 209 Klaus reads a copy of a post card from Kit to Olivia Caliban. Could it be possible that this post card is to Madamme Lulu? This would make Friday's father Lulu's brother. Or it could just be a strange coincidence involving two people named Olivia.
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Post by snicketfilepg13 on Oct 15, 2006 3:13:17 GMT -5
The ? picture at the end of TE can mean two things. It is:
a) A motif/symbol to denote that there is 'Great Unknown' in the world, and that you may never know ALL of the worlds secrets, therefore there is always something you may not know.
or
b) The Baudelaires get taken by the ?.
I think its a), therefore meaning that as TBL hints, the Baudelaires do get seperated from Beatrice Jr. in the next 9 years, some how. If The Great Unknown does seperate the Baudelaires from Beatrice Jr. why and how does she survive, and if she was raised by another for 9 years why in TBL does it not say so? Wouldn't she seek Lemony's help to find that person?
Maybe the ? doesn't even hurt or seperate the Baudelaires and Beatrice, but it merely destroys the ship.
I'm grateful Handler didn't give all the answers, it gives us all something to ponder on. =)
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Post by beatriceblake on Oct 15, 2006 5:53:43 GMT -5
That is a good point. Just because the ship gets ruined doesn't mean the Baudelaires are separated. In fact I was wondering if Beatrice is taken from them since she seems to be attending V.F.D type classes in TBL.
It is definitely possible. We know Olivia was in V.F.D in the past.
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Post by MikeT on Oct 15, 2006 7:39:43 GMT -5
Well, as usual I'm waiting for my stupid American cover to arrive. In the meantime, I read my friends copy and read until 2:00am last night finishing it. I was amazed. I was with my friend all day Saturday after he read it, and he was telling me how much he was dissappointed by the ending and I was left reeling, pretty much, because I didn't want to feel the same. My feelings were very much the opposite. I adored how Lemony said we cannot know all the secrets, and how everything seemed to be tied up, without tying almost anything up. I have to admit, I shed a tear or two when reading Chapter 13, just because the series has been a major part of my childhood, and I was sad to see it go. I was sad to let the Baudelaires get on with their lives, and not completely understand where abouts they're actually going to go. On the topic of the Sugarbowl.. what struck me during TPP.. was why Count Olaf was so calm about releasing the Medusoid Mycelium. Surely, if he knew how harmful it was.. he wouldn't release it.. Then when I was reading the responses here, about it containing the antidote or possible a hybrid apple, it came to me. The sugarbowl holds the antidote to the bitter tea, right? So.. if the antidote is the sugar bowl, and Olaf has it in his possession, then he can release the Medusoid Mycelium and eat the apple. At least, that's the plan I'm sure he had at the Hotel Denoument. It makes sense why Beatrice stole it off Esmé, to hybridize the tree, even if it does make the time line seem a little blurry. And if the Meducoid Mycelium was the advantage the Villains seemed to have over the Volunteers, then it would make sense for them fighting over it. Regarding the French quote... *posts again*: O Death, old captain, it is time! let us lift anchor.
This land tires us, O Death. Let us be under way!
If the sky and the sea are black as ink,
Our hearts, those you know, have rays of light!I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the reference to Ink. I'm convinced that this expresses the fate of the poisoned colony. "Oh Death, old captain, it is time! Let us lift anchor" Obviously referring to Ishmael.. "This land tires us.." Well we know that! .. "If the sky and sea are black as Ink" .. if the IDV is following them, "Our hearts...have rays of light".. they have hope. I'd like to think that this means Ink gets to the passengers safely and helps them recover. Although I still question Ismael's motives.. I loved the talk of schisms and how the Baudelaires learnt that VFD wasn't the only organisation to be split in two. I finally have a broad idea of VFD and what it is all about and I'm thankful for that. Sure, we don't have all the answers.. but I'm happy. I really am. Edit: Forgot to mention my feelings for Kit and Olaf (I personally prefer 'Kolaf'!"  I thought it was nice another love triangle was added other than the L/B/B one.. And they were buried together.. and they had graves.. and *weeps* It was just so sad. Fake edit: I love that. Sunny really is the most intelligent child I've ever known. Edit 2: Oh, and I forgot to say.. Which is the picture which has the ? on? I cannot find it in the British version.. there isn't a picture at the end. |
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Post by Phoebonica on Oct 15, 2006 7:47:33 GMT -5
That does make a lot of sense, I know everyone says the timeline is off but doesn't Lemony mention his sister running off with a Count? I don't have the book on me, but I think it's actually "running off with an archduke". And he never states that it was his sister, as far as I remember, it was just an example of what one might find reading other people's letters. Beatrice Jr. could be Olaf's daughter, but I prefer to think that she's Dewey's. I think Kit considered Dewey her true love, but Olaf considered Kit his. And now I think about it, that sort of parallels what happened with Lemony, Beatrice and Bertrand. |
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Post by PJ on Oct 15, 2006 7:55:15 GMT -5
Olaf DID tempt them with knowledge when he wanted them to unlock his cage...
But yeah.
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Post by Orangey Snicket on Oct 15, 2006 8:52:06 GMT -5
That is a good point. Just because the ship gets ruined doesn't mean the Baudelaires are separated. In fact I was wondering if Beatrice is taken from them since she seems to be attending V.F.D type classes in TBL. (I'm a little rusty at theorizing...) Did we ever have the other picture of the TBL poster explained? If not, then I was thinking that yeah, the ship was ruined, the Bauds found refuge in that cave place that's indicated on the poster, because you see their things all decked out in there. They would have been found relatively easily since you see a city in the horizon. Contradiction: 1. This would not explain why the "Beatrice Sank" poster has object's belonging to the Bauds and also later in the cave... like they just swam around and thought it was important to catch their things...? Plus Klaus's glasses were magically repaired. But I don't really buy in to the "they got separated AFTER getting to land" thing. I remember from a previous book (my mind forgot which book long ago...) that Klaus would stay up in his bed years later, still thinking about all the things that happened to them. Something along those lines. |
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Post by dezthelez on Oct 15, 2006 9:01:26 GMT -5
I don't have any of the stuff and info. you guys have at the end of the book. Like, how do you guys now what happened to the Baudelaires, I don't have the picture of the question mark, or the glasses, or the stuff that says the boat may sink.....why?
I have the American copy, bought it at barnes and nobles, do you think every book has a different picture?
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I thought it was nice another love triangle was added other than the L/B/B one.. And they were buried together.. and they had graves.. and *weeps* It was just so sad.
