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Post by Hermes on Mar 27, 2009 19:11:32 GMT -5
Hi, everyone! I'm back I came up with an interesting theory for recent history of the VFD, and I was stunned by how well it worked out - but here goes: 1948: A few rogues began working from within, to destroy the VFD. This is also when, according to my timeline, Jacques and Kit would be five. It might be a few months before their birthday. 1965: Seventeen years later, the group of rogues has grown large enough to create an official schism in the VFD. 1982: Another seventeen years later. When I figured the events of The Penultimate Peril would occur.. The burning of the Denouement Hotel would definitely be a major event for the VFD. 1999: Another seventeen years later - and, incidentally enough, when The Bad Beginning was published. My theory is that, by then, the VFD will finally dissolve. What do you guys think? I think the idea of major things happening at seventeen year intervals makes a lot of sense - that seems about right for the gap between the original schism (when the Snickets were children) and the conflict which led to the breakup between Lemony and Beatrice, and again for the gap between that and the events of ASOUE. I think this is a really ingenious way of reconciling the evidence of TPP, that the schism happened when the Snickets were children, and of TUA, that it happened when they were adults and was caused by Olaf. My own idea for a solution is rather different - my thought is this; the original split between good guys and bad guys happened when Kit and Jacques were four; then later, when they were grown up, Olaf changed sides and betrayed them to their enemies; this caused a new split among the good guys, differing about how to respond to the threat (whether to 'fight fire with fire'). I agree that seventeen years after ASOUE, VFD will have faded away. It's already in a weakened and fragmented state in ASOUE; it seems to be more so in the 'future' part of TBL, ten years after ASOUE, where something is still going on - Beatrice attends a VFD school - but it's made clear it's a tiny remnant. So seven years after that it's likely to have gone. I don't think, though, that that can be the date TBB was published, because Beatrice writes about Lemony's books, showing that some of them, at least, have already appeared. Might I suggest that this might be the date that TBL was finished? The letter to the editor at the end sounds as if it was written some time after the actual letters from Beatrice, so seven years later seems possible.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Mar 27, 2009 19:32:35 GMT -5
Thank you, hermes. Well, there is the whole thing that the VFD used to be real hush-hush. The Austere Academy, which makes the first reference to VFD, was published and released in 2000 - which is just one year later. Perhaps, until that book, Lemony Snicket didn't feel comfortable with mentioning the VFD - and, thus, acted as if the "eyeball" symbol was Olaf's own personal obsession. I'm still amazed by how well the thing worked out, as I centred the timeline around two factors. The first factor is that I wanted the Quagmire triplet to be born in 1968 - since Quigley is more or less the counterpart of Marty McFly (from Back to the Future). The other factor was based on having the Lemony Snicket character be exactly 25 year older than the real life Daniel Handler. Oh, yeah - and, for some reason, I figured that 1965 would be a perfect year for the schism to occur. Even I was to use 1999 as the year of the events, which would put Lemony Snicket at 29 (if I was to keep the 1970 birth year), that wouldn't work. It would make him only 15 years older than Violet, and he's supposed to be two years older than Beatrice. Anyway, the books have made several references insinuating the the events occurred quite some time ago. Especially in The Austere Academy, when he mentioned the arrest of Mrs. Bass (foreshadowing) - along with the fact that Prufrock Prep was no longer standing.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 29, 2009 12:03:42 GMT -5
Well, there is the whole thing that the VFD used to be real hush-hush. The Austere Academy, which makes the first reference to VFD, was published and released in 2000 - which is just one year later. Perhaps, until that book, Lemony Snicket didn't feel comfortable with mentioning the VFD - and, thus, acted as if the "eyeball" symbol was Olaf's own personal obsession. Ooh, I like that idea. I'm not sure, however, that we have to wait until VFD has completely disappeared before Lemony feels able to talk about it publicly - perhaps he feels that the best hope for its survival is to let more people know about it. Although often VFD makes a big thing about secrecy, at other times they do seem to be attempting outreach to the public - think, for instance, of the recruitment leaflet in TUA. Where do you get that? They're clearly close in age, as they were in some of the same classes at school, but I don't think we're ever told precisely how their ages relate to one another. I have a theory on which Lemony is actually a bit younger than the other children in his intake into VFD (which probably includes Beatrice), and it's because he was taken so young that his taking became a matter of legend. I agree totally that he must be more than 29 at the time of ASOUE, though - I'd say 35 at the very least, probably more. True. Some things - particularly one passage in TEE - suggest he's writing long after the unfortunate events, much more than ten years. I still think the ten-year idea makes most sense of things, though. Since The End was published in 2006, that would put the events themselves in 1996 at the latest. One can play with this a bit, though - perhaps he wrote The End after meeting Beatrice rather than before, and perhaps it took a while to prepare for publication. Still, mid-nineties seems right to me. (Always assuming, of course, that the real-world publication date is the same as the in-story publication date, which it needn't be.)
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Mar 29, 2009 12:21:47 GMT -5
The Beatrice Letters had strongly suggested that Lemony Snicket was two years older than Beatrice (the Baudelaires' mother), while Jacques and Kit Snicket seem to be two years older than Lemony.
Also, speaking of The Beatrice Letter, that book came out in 2006 - so, actually the upper limit of when the series could take place would be 1996. Although, since the events were suggested to last between late fall of one year to early spring of the next year - the upper limit for The Bad Beginning would be 1995.
Although, some do seem to have a theory that the events could actually be set sometime in the future - but I'm sort of going by the assumption that the books were published and released in the same years in the ASOUE Universe, as they are in "our" world.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 30, 2009 9:26:21 GMT -5
The Beatrice Letters had strongly suggested that Lemony Snicket was two years older than Beatrice (the Baudelaires' mother) I've heard this said before, but I'm still not sure what the actual evidence is. I can't find anything about their ages in the book (except that Lemony is eleven when he first writes to her). (Feels dim again.)
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Mar 30, 2009 9:47:33 GMT -5
Well, I don't remember the specific details. Initially, I did figure Beatrice to be a little older than Lemony - and, thus, the whole "embarrassing Beatrice in front of her friends". It was actually someone else who had brought up the "two years older" thing. I suppose I should re-read through some of the older threads that I contributed to.
Still, the point remain. Even if Lemony and Beatrice were the same age, or if Beatrice was a little older, keeping Lemony Snicket's birth year at 1970 would not work too well - since, if we just assume that The Bad Beginning takes place in 1999, Lemony would be only fifteen years older than Violet Baudelaire.
As it is, though, I moved Lemony Snicket's birth year back by 25 years - and the events of The Bad Beginning to 1981.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 30, 2009 16:30:21 GMT -5
I think some people thought that Lemony must be older than Beatrice because in Lemony's first letter 'I am the eleven year-old boy', and in Beatrice's last letter 'I am the ten-year-old girl'. But most people now agree that this was another Beatrice at another time, so nothing follows about the first Beatrice's age. (Still, as you say, it makes no difference to the larger question; whether Lemony is slightly older than Beatrice or slightly younger, he's clearly more than fifteen years older than Violet.)
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Mar 31, 2009 6:26:02 GMT -5
I just re-read The Vile Village - and I added in the flashback events surrounding the seventh, eighth, and twelfth (1976, 1977, and 1981) birthdays of Klaus.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Apr 11, 2009 13:12:15 GMT -5
I really enjoyed reading the modified version of your timeline, and I like that there are so many differences between our two universes. It's also very cool that the series starts off the year I was born. And hooray! You're going with "Bertrand" for Jerome's and Kathy's son. The only thing I noticed that you may want to change was in Klaus receiving a biography for Ogdan Nash for his birthday in 1974 and again in 1976. I'm not sure if that was your intention or not, but if it was then just ignore me. ;D
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Apr 11, 2009 13:43:33 GMT -5
Oops, thanks for pointing that out, I just corrected that.
Yeah, I think there are quite a few differences between our universes. I guess the events of the books occurred in mine before Violet was even born in yours.
BTW, in your universe, how old is Lemony Snicket? Was Daniel Handler born in 1970, just like in "our" world?
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Apr 11, 2009 14:29:41 GMT -5
You're welcome, Quags. Yeah, you're right about the events in the books taking place in your universe before Violet or her siblings were born in mine. In mine I have everything taking place in 1999, since that's the year the series was published and seems like the easiest way for me to follow it. In my universe I picture Lemony being thirty-three at the start of the series, and thirty-five at the end. I portray him and his siblings as triplets-- he is the oldest, Jacques the second, and Kit the youngest.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Apr 16, 2009 19:34:45 GMT -5
O.K., this is the timeline for my fanfic universe, which includes both canon and original characters. Because the fanfic universe differs in certain areas from the one in the RPGs I do, a second timeline may follow. I would like to credit Jenny for the character of Bernard Fitzgerald and the Andrew Squalor/Geraldine Julienne pairing. ***
A TWISTED TIMELINE ~Main Fanfiction Universe~ 1928: William and Nancy (Count Olaf’s parents) are born. 1936: James Fitzgerald is born. 1942: Maxwell Squalor is born. 1943: Cora Squalor and Aldous Nabokov are born. 1944: Joseph Salinger is born. 1948: Adelle Salinger and Annabel Squalor are born. 1954: Count Olaf is born. 1958: Hugo is born. 1963: Vice Principal Nero is born; Maxwell Squalor marries Cora. 1964: Fernald Widdershins is born. 1965: Kevin is born. 1966: James Fitzgerald marries Adelle Salinger; Lemony, Jacques and Kit Snicket are born. 1967: Jerome Squalor, Montgomery Montgomery, Bernard Fitzgerald, Beatrice and Bertrand Baudelaire are born. 1968: Adelle divorces James Fitzgerald and marries Joseph Salinger; Geraldine Julienne is born. 1969: Esmé Squalor is born; Annabel Squalor and Aldous Nabokov elope to the Village of Fowl Devotees. 1970: Hector Nabokov is born. 1971: Colette Dubois is born. 1973: Andrew Squalor is born. 1974: Aldous Nabokov is killed in an automobile accident. 1982: Count Olaf adopts Esmé. 1983: Adelle Salinger dies of tuberculosis. 1984: Esmé is enrolled at the V.F.D. Training School and begins dating Bertrand Baudelaire; Fernald Widdershins meets Colette Dubois; Fiona Widdershins is born. 1985: Violet Baudelaire is born. 1986: Quigley, Duncan and Isadora Quagmire are born. 1987: Esmé graduates from the V.F.D. Training School and becomes a full-fledged member of the organization; Beatrice and Bertrand murder William and Nancy; the schism occurs; Bertrand marries Beatrice; Joseph Salinger dies of alcoholism; Carmelita Spats and Klaus Baudelaire are born. 1988: Esmé becomes pregnant with Olaf’s child and terminates it upon his request; Fernald Widdershins loses his hands; Annabel Squalor falls out of a tree while trying to protect a nest of crow’s eggs from a squirrel and dies. 1997: Carmelita is adopted by Mr. and Mrs. Jenkins; Mrs. Jenkins becomes pregnant and Carmelita is placed in the custody of Vice Principal Nero. 1999: Sunny Baudelaire is born; Esmé and Olaf set fire to the Quagmire mansion; Esmé meets and marries Jerome Squalor; Olaf sets fire to the Baudelaire mansion; Montgomery Montgomery dies after being poisoned by Olaf; Hector meets the Quagmire triplets; Jacques Snicket dies after being poisoned by Olaf; Colette, Hugo and Kevin join Count Olaf’s acting troupe; Fernald Widdershins is reunited with Fiona and leaves the troupe; Hugo and Kevin die in the fire at the Hotel Denouement; Count Olaf dies of a harpoon wound and Kit Snicket dies in childbirth; Beatrice Baudelaire the Second and Walter Dali are born; the Squalors adopt Carmelita Spats; Maxwell Squalor begins his affair with Geraldine Julienne. 2000: Emma Squalor is born; Maxwell dies of cancer. 2003: Faust Widdershins is born. 2005: Carmelita Spats graduates from Prufrock Preparatory School; Cody Widdershins is born; Hector Nabokov marries Isadora Quagmire. 2011: Carmelita begins working as a chef at Café Salmonella. 2012: The Squalors are reunited with the Baudelaires, Quagmires, Widdershins, Colette and Hector; Nero marries Carmelita; Kit the Second and Montgomery the Second are born. 2013: Alexander, Ala and Kosima Nabokov are born. 2014: Esmé meets James and Bernard Fitzgerald. 2015: Andrew Squalor marries Geraldine Julienne. 2018: Emma becomes engaged to Duncan Quagmire, but breaks it later on to attend the Blue Moon University of the Performing Arts. 2002: Emma graduates from the Blue Moon University of the Performing Arts and launches her career as an actress and singer; she marries Walter Dali. 2023: Walter dies following an accident during one of his performances onstage. 2027: Emma marries Duncan Quagmire. 2028: Walter Quagmire is born.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 17, 2009 8:26:18 GMT -5
Emma, this is really interesting. To understand it fully I guess I'd have to read all your stories, which I'd like to do, but don't have the time right now. But can you tell me a couple of things?
1. I'm guessing you are calling some people - like Beatrice Baudelaire - by their married name even before they are married. Is that right?
2. Can you explain what happened in 1984-5? One moment Bertrand is dating Esme; the next Violet is born. What went wrong? (Or is Bertrand not really Violet's father? Oh!)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 8:29:04 GMT -5
2. Can you explain what happened in 1984-5? One moment Bertrand is dating Esme; the next Violet is born. What went wrong? (Or is Bertrand not really Violet's father? Oh!) I was wondering the same thing, actually. I'm sorry I haven't read your story yet *feels bad* but like Hermes said, this specific timeline is really interesting...
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Apr 17, 2009 9:34:30 GMT -5
Hey, thanks, guys. I'm very glad you enjoyed the timeline, and I'd be more than happy to answer your questions. Yup! I just figured it would be the easiest approach to take, seeing as the characters would be most easily recognized if I referred to them by their canon surnames. This proved to be the biggest challenge while writing the timeline. I realized that if I wanted Esme to be thirty years old at the start of the series (which I wanted to take place in 1999), then I was going to have to make some adjustments. I did this by making Lemony Violet's father rather than Bertrand, which is something I've always felt is believeable. My only other option was to have Bertrand cheat on Esme, which I really didn't want to do because I don't see him as being the type of person who would do something like that.
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