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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 29, 2013 9:35:08 GMT -5
Oh, okay. Yes. It could mean that. I always thought the emphasis was just on "my". I mean, like, it's just because it's Ed and his interests are generally less important to Joan than hers.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 29, 2013 14:57:39 GMT -5
Not so much to say about the last part of 145-244. At this point time becomes vaguer: up to now things have taken just a week (even if the characters think it's two weeks), but now we begin to jump over the time from then to Halloween, with a couple of stops. The visit to the Garden happens on a school day, but that's all we know. Goofballs is presumably on a Saturday.
Ed is a cartographer! But why did he need a protractor to draw that map? I had a bit of difficulty working out what was what at first, but I think I solved it all.
Is the tag saying 'Hope' a Pandora's box reference?
Since we know Anka hasn't finished the book yet, should we wait a couple of days before we start discussing the last section? I think it would be hard to discuss that bit without spoilers.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 29, 2013 15:10:09 GMT -5
I will be away from Wednesday to next Monday or Tuesday, so I will read the rest of the book then and post the notes when I'm back, so you can go on if you want.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 29, 2013 16:52:20 GMT -5
I will be away from Wednesday to next Monday or Tuesday, so I will read the rest of the book then and post the notes when I'm back, so you can go on if you want. Anyone else still need time to read the last bit? Otherwise I suggest we open discussion of it on Wednesday.
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Post by Songbird on Jul 30, 2013 8:07:46 GMT -5
I'm finished with the book so we can start on Wednesday.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 31, 2013 15:03:05 GMT -5
So, is anyone here except me and Songbird? Anyway, we're assuming people have read to the end, so we don't have to worry about spoilers.
Talking of which, Annette has come up a couple of times already - first, I think, when Ed mentions her having helped him draw diagrams for the party (and confuses her with Min - oh dear) and then when Min meets her at the hardware shop. What do you think is going on there? Min does drop some heavy hints ('I thought, the idiot that I was, that she was looking out for me'). Did anyone have suspicions in advance?
So, Halloween. I find Min's costume rather hard to visualise. People interpret it as Hitler, a cop, or a serviceperson, though it's really meant to be a prison warden. (It's an old coat of her father's. Is he a prison warden?)
What do people think of Trevor? I think this is the first time we see a friend of Ed's close up.
Min never says exactly what she is angry about. I'm taking it that it's Trevor mentioning 'everything but', this showing that Ed has been discussing private details with his friends. Or am I misreading it? Trevor said that Ed will always tell his friends everything, and this shows that it is true - while Min has become alienated from her gang, Ed never will be.
What is Viper?
OK, the really big time problem. They have been together twenty-six days, and their first date was on October 5th, and Halloween is October 31st, so that's right. But October 5th was a Saturday, and so is Halloween. How do they manage that? Min is no good at maths, but Ed is. (And there are knock-on problems in what follows.)
It's an interesting scene where Min dances with Joe, and Ed is sitting there 'self-conscious and stricken', and so is Al - more foreshadowing there, I think.
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Post by bandit on Jul 31, 2013 15:51:07 GMT -5
Talking of which, Annette has come up a couple of times already - first, I think, when Ed mentions her having helped him draw diagrams for the party (and confuses her with Min - oh dear) and then when Min meets her at the hardware shop. What do you think is going on there? Min does drop some heavy hints ('I thought, the idiot that I was, that she was looking out for me'). Did anyone have suspicions in advance? It is generally agreed upon that you can't really break up and still "keep in touch", or at least not while you're still in high school. So yeah, I was suspicious from the minute we met Annette. I really like her name though. I'm guessing she was just wearing an oversized, tan-colored coat. Nazi uniforms were like that, and so are warden uniforms, and I guess a drunk or stupid person could think it was a cop or serviceperson uniform. I think it was just because of the general total jerk way that Trevor acted. Not only did he mention intimate details between Ed and Min, but he also said it mockingly and is making fun of Ed and Min's relationship in front of everyone. Hm, yeah, that's weird. That could have just been a mistake that the editor failed to pick up on.
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Post by Linda Rhaldeen on Aug 1, 2013 0:57:24 GMT -5
Good catch on Joan having a girlfriend - I read that part and assumed Andrea was just a friend, but on closer inspection it does seem to indicate a romantic relationship. The first time I read this book the cheating caught me completely by surprise, but when I read it this time I caught some clues. Ed telling Annette so much about Min is suspicious in itself, and probably the only reason she doesn't suspect anything is because she does the same with Al, whose friendship she sees as purely platonic. Though it was pretty obvious to me that Al had feelings for her, even the first time I read this; maybe Min did see it and was in denial. Ed seems to go through girlfriends very quickly - at the bonfire one week after Min and Ed begin dating, Jillian mentions that she had been dating him just last week; in fact she may have still been dating him at the time of Al's party, or perhaps just broken up which is what prompted him to go for Min. And then at the end of Min's letter she implies that Annette and Ed have already broken up. I thought it was some sort of alcoholic beverage, but Google seems to indicate it's some sort of sports energy drink - which makes sense in the context that the basketball team had access to it and drank it before a performance.
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Post by Hermes on Aug 1, 2013 8:31:29 GMT -5
Talking of which, Annette has come up a couple of times already - first, I think, when Ed mentions her having helped him draw diagrams for the party (and confuses her with Min - oh dear) and then when Min meets her at the hardware shop. What do you think is going on there? Min does drop some heavy hints ('I thought, the idiot that I was, that she was looking out for me'). Did anyone have suspicions in advance? It is generally agreed upon that you can't really break up and still "keep in touch", or at least not while you're still in high school. So yeah, I was suspicious from the minute we met Annette. I really like her name though. Hmph. I think it's a ridiculous rule, perhaps especially in high school where relationships tend to be short-lived, but OK. There seems to be some big story about their break-up which we are never told. But just what was going on when is still a bit unclear - perhaps we should leave that till later. But why blame Ed for that? And she seems to have been getting on OK with Trevor up to that point - even leaning in to him (something, notably, that she does not blame herself for). Either that, or it's meant to make some point about the unreliability of memory, or something, I suppose. (If we ignore the claim that Halloween is a Saturday, everything else fits - the motel is the weekend after Halloween, i.e. 2nd November, and the breakup is ten days after that. But Halloween being a Saturday, which is said, messes it all up.)
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Post by Songbird on Aug 1, 2013 8:37:24 GMT -5
I think I cried at the end of the book.
I've only stayed friends with one of my exes, and that was because we 'dated' in middle school. So it is possible.
Does anyone really want to know what Al's exact opinion was of Ed?
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Post by Hermes on Aug 1, 2013 8:46:21 GMT -5
The first time I read this book the cheating caught me completely by surprise, but when I read it this time I caught some clues. Ed telling Annette so much about Min is suspicious in itself, and probably the only reason she doesn't suspect anything is because she does the same with Al, whose friendship she sees as purely platonic. Though it was pretty obvious to me that Al had feelings for her, even the first time I read this; maybe Min did see it and was in denial. I'm afraid the book does tend rather to confirm stereotypes - a boy and a girl can't be just friends; those are the choices. Which, when you come to think of it, ought to apply to Ed and Annette as well, so that is indeed a failure by Min to notice things. And it doesn't seem to have been widely known at first - she mentions people noticing that Jillian didn't have a pennant in her locker on the day of the game. Yes indeed: which explains 'heartbroken on the bed' at the beginning - something which initially seemed odd, since it was a month after the breakup. Perhaps later on Min, Jillian and Annette will meet up and kill Ed. Seems odd that Trevor gets so excited about it, but then, these are people who never drink coffee.
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Post by Hermes on Aug 2, 2013 15:56:25 GMT -5
Does anyone really want to know what Al's exact opinion was of Ed? Yes - though it seems to turn out later that it wasn't really his opinion at all. (Or is he just saying that to be nice?) What do people make of the Blue Rhino scene? Is the Blue Rhino real? The bottle in the picture doesn't actually fit the description Min gives, with odd icons on the label - there is no label. I do like the bit, though, where the woman she had just thought was Carl Haig's daughter (which she may be, of course) suddenly produces her trombone. After that we come down with a bump with the egg cubers. I wasn't sure if egg cubers were real, but Google assures me they are. I felt it was a bit artificial to have Joan take a picture of the igloo, so it can be included in the box, but it's a nice piece of foreshadowing - Joan clearly suspects by now that things aren't going to work out. The conversation with Lauren proves that mobile phones exist in this universe, although nobody ever uses them. The bit about the girlfriend in LA - 'Someday we'll get to that too' - is another piece of foreshadowing, this time with Al (though I suppose it could mean he is, after all, gay). Might this illuminate where the book is set?
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Post by Songbird on Aug 3, 2013 10:14:17 GMT -5
Well we do know that the book takes places in America presumably. I think Joan always knew it wouldn't work out.
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Post by Hermes on Aug 3, 2013 10:49:58 GMT -5
I wasn't sure if egg cubers were real, but Google assures me they are. I have an egg cuber, and can say with confidence that they do not work well enough to stack into an igloo. The squares are more like those rubik's cubes that have so many pieces they bulge out on the sides. I'm finding it hard to think of reasons one might want an egg cuber other than making an igloo. Min does mention cutting bits off, I think. Well we do know that the book takes places in America presumably. I think Joan always knew it wouldn't work out. She was always sceptical, but now she seems to be putting a date on it. And yes, Anerica, but I'm wondering if we could say more precisely. I'm guessing the San Francisco region, where most of DH's work seems to be set - does that sound plausible? I was going to comment on the motel scenes today, but I really can't think of anything to say about them. The actual moment is passed over discreetly, this being Young Adult fiction. The earrings, on the other hand, are heavy with foreshadowing ('I will not think about who helped you pick them out') and makes you wonder just what his relationship with Annette is.
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Post by Charlie on Aug 4, 2013 6:26:50 GMT -5
I quite liked the way Daniel Handler discretely describes sex. It's quite entertaining. "Like putting a whole grapefruit into your mouth"
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