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Post by Seymour Glass on Feb 4, 2017 20:32:55 GMT -5
Sir: Gay Charles: Gay Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender: Asexual Sunny: Lesbian Geraldine Julienne: Bisexual Bruce Spats: Gay Jacques: Bisexual Duchess R: Lesbian
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Post by Michelle Denouement on Feb 5, 2017 1:20:23 GMT -5
Jacques: Bisexual Esme: Bisexual, with a preference for men Hugo: Pansexual Sunny: Lesbian Bruce: Gay Henchperson of indeterminate gender: Agender and asexual
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Feb 5, 2017 11:00:00 GMT -5
I don't think of Charles and Sir being gay (slash bi slash pan) as headcanon so much as actual canon. It's implied about as heavily as it can be without crossing the border between implication and outright statement. I'm a big fan of interpreting Isadora as a trans female. Beyond that, I'm not all that personally interested in deciding characters' sexuality without any clues to go by in the text, but I realise that's easy for me to say when most characters are interpreted as sharing my sexuality by default. In general, reading queer characteristics into characters to enable identification is something I can only applaud.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 5, 2017 12:53:53 GMT -5
I don't think of Charles and Sir being gay (slash bi slash pan) as headcanon so much as actual canon. It's implied about as heavily as it can be without crossing the border between implication and outright statement. Agreed. TMM is ambiguous, but after TPP and TBL there isn't really anything to argue about. I think there are clues for Bruce and (less definitely) for the Duchess. I also think the Doctor is right in arguing that the firemen in ATWQ are a gay couple. Sunny is gay in my imagining of the world, but that's no headcanon, just fanfic.
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Post by Teleram on Feb 5, 2017 23:12:31 GMT -5
Why would that be any of our business
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Post by thathoboravioli on Feb 5, 2017 23:13:29 GMT -5
I think the Duchess might be a lesbian, Charles and Sir are DEFINITELY gay (or at least bi), and I think Esme might be bi.
Oh, and Beatrice might be bi too.
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Post by Charles Vane on Feb 6, 2017 14:14:24 GMT -5
Why would that be any of our business because a fair amount of one's sexual orientation / gender identity is public knowledge and part of everyday life, assuming one is heterosexual / cis. LGBT+ people shouldn't have to hide that part of themselves away if they don't want to. also, anything about a character could hypothetically be a reader's business, because characters don't have private lives as they aren't real. when non-straight characters don't appear in media, all that does is give non-straight people no one like them in media. saying it's none of our business isn't respectful, it's harmful.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 6, 2017 14:28:25 GMT -5
Quite so. If they were real people who hadn't said anything about their orientation, it wouldn't be our business to ask, but as they are imaginary, we can imagine anything about them we please.
(*Agrees with Pandora, clutches head, wonder what is happening.*)
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Post by Charles Vane on Feb 6, 2017 23:43:40 GMT -5
even a broken clock is right twice a day hermes. and you're obvi the broken clock in this scenario because, you know, you're old, you've broken a hip before, ect.
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Post by Seymour Glass on Feb 7, 2017 17:33:37 GMT -5
I don't think of Charles and Sir being gay (slash bi slash pan) as headcanon so much as actual canon. It's implied about as heavily as it can be without crossing the border between implication and outright statement. I'm a big fan of interpreting Isadora as a trans female. Beyond that, I'm not all that personally interested in deciding characters' sexuality without any clues to go by in the text, but I realise that's easy for me to say when most characters are interpreted as sharing my sexuality by default. In general, reading queer characteristics into characters to enable identification is something I can only applaud. Not everyone has Sir and Charles be gay, though.
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Post by Hermes on Feb 8, 2017 16:56:20 GMT -5
Well, honestly I don't see why not. TMM alone doesn't force us to read it that way, certainly, but I think the later books do.
It strikes me that there's a possible clue to Isadora being lesbian, in that Sunny, when they meet, says 'Sappho' - the obvious meaning is just that she's a poet, but the other thing Sappho is famous for may be relevant as well.
In ATWQ, I do find the Moxie/Ellington pairing quite intriguing - they would have to be bisexual, of course, since they were definitely both attracted to Lemony.
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Post by Invisible on Feb 8, 2017 18:21:10 GMT -5
Count Olaf: Bisexual Charles: Gay Sir: Bisexual Sunny: Gay
Everyone else is either straight or I just haven't worked out anything yet. (Or indeed, simply forgotten to mention.)
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Post by Linda Rhaldeen on Feb 8, 2017 20:18:37 GMT -5
I'm surprised how many people see Sunny as lesbian. I'd never really thought about her orientation, her being so young, but then this thread has made me realize I haven't given thought much thought to the orientation of anyone in the series. I don't assume them all straight, it just never occurred to me to explore it at all. So I was thinking about this today at work and trying to think of some that could help explain canon, at that at least are never contradicted in canon, and here's what I came up with: Charles - Gay Sir - Pansexual Jerome Squalor - Polyamorous and bisexual Jacques Snicket - Gay Lemony Snicket - Greyromantic Isadora Quagmire - Trans (MtF to be specific) Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender - Agender, Asexual, Pan-quoiromantic Justice Strauss - Asexual and Aromantic Uncle Monty - Homo-demiromantic asexual Duchess of Winnipeg - Lesbian
I've also seen quite fond of the fan theory that amongst the Denouement triplets, Frank is right-handed, Ernest is left-handed, and Dewey is ambidextrous (the only handednesses we know for sure in all of ASOUE are Violet's, Kevin's and Dewey's). So just for fun, we can make Frank straight, Ernest gay (or those two flipped), and Dewey bisexual. The only thing we know for sure is that Dewey has loved at least one woman (Kit)
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Post by Invisible on Feb 8, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -5
What can I say? Sunny's homosexuality just feels right. I find it interesting that your Isadora is transgender, Linda. With her being so identical to her brothers, I suppose it would make a lot of sense. (Because fraternal siblings, obviously, aren't always identical.)
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Post by Linda Rhaldeen on Feb 8, 2017 21:49:15 GMT -5
Alas, I can't take credit for that one; Isadora being transgender is another fan theory I heard a few months ago and immediately liked. The line about them being identical has always bugged me and this solution, while maybe not what Daniel Handler originally had in mind, is certainly an elegant one. It also validates the TPP quote about triplets running in the family in a way that it could not have if the Quagmires were fraternal triplets, as identical and fraternal multiples are caused by completely different phenomena and it is extremely unlikely that both types would occur in the same family.
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