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Post by SF on Jun 15, 2005 20:36:19 GMT -5
Hey, I was re-reading THH and I noticed something interesting. On pg. 33 Lemony says "And I would hop like nobody has ever hopped before, if I could somehow go back to that terrible Thursday, and stop Beatrice from attending that afternoon tea where she met Esme Squalor for the first time"
What I noticed was that in TSS Klaus discovers through the V.F.D. fridge that a meeting will be held on Thursday at the last safe place (Hotel Denoumont*sp?). Is this the same Thursday as when Beatrice (possible Mrs.Baudelaire) meets Esme, and if this theory is true... then maybe Beatrice is alive...(edit)the survivor
Just something to ponder, thanks for the feed back ;D
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Post by RockSunner on Jun 15, 2005 21:04:14 GMT -5
Hey, I was re-reading THH and I noticed something interesting. On pg. 33 Lemony says "And I would hop like nobody has ever hopped before, if I could somehow go back to that terrible Thursday, and stop Beatrice from attending that afternoon tea where she met Esme Squalor for the first time" What I noticed was that in TSS Klaus discovers through the V.F.D. fridge that a meeting will be held on Thursday at the last safe place (Hotel Denoumont*sp?). Is this the same Thursday as when Beatrice (possible Mrs.Baudelaire) meets Esme, and if this theory is true... then maybe Beatrice is alive...(edit)the survivor Just something to ponder, thanks for the feed back ;D Interesting theory, all right. But Esme already has a grudge against Beatrice, "I want to steal from you the way Beatrice stole from me," in TEE. Unless Beatrice stole from Esme without meeting her (or Esme thinks she did), this theory seems improbable. I think it's more likely that the other Thursday is when Esme developed the grudge leading to Beatrice's death. But Beatrice could still be alive at this point, anyway.
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Post by Dante on Jun 16, 2005 5:26:34 GMT -5
I think Esmé's grudge against Beatrice, and her idea that Beatrice stole from her, comes from that tea party in your first quote.
From evidence in other books, we have found that Lemony stole a sugar bowl from Esmé Squalor: Esmé had afternoon tea with Beatrice, at which a sugar bowl would no doubt be used. Esmé says in TEE that Beatrice stole from her.
The conclusion that one normally comes to from this evidence is that Lemony stole the sugar bowl from Esmé during this afternoon tea, and Esmé blamed it on Beatrice. If this is the case, then because of Esmé's quote in TEE (provided by RockSunner) it is unlikely that the tea party referred to has not already taken place.
So, while it is an interesting theory, it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
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Post by Antenora on Jun 16, 2005 6:51:04 GMT -5
Maybe VFD meetings are always(or usually, or at least sometimes) held on Thursdays, so this tea party which Lemony and Beatrice attended took place on one. Esme could have infiltrated it and taken the sugar bowl, but Lemony regained it, and somehow Esme thought Beatrice had stolen it.
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Post by Dante on Jun 16, 2005 9:27:09 GMT -5
I think that the sugar bowl belonged to Esmé in the first place - twisted though her morality may be, I doubt that it reaches to taking such offence at a stolen sugar bowl which she herself had stolen. In fact, I'm not sure that Lemony was even (officially) in attendance at this tea party. I always thought that it was an afternoon tea just between Beatrice and Esmé, because then it would be easier for Esmé to think that Beatrice stole the sugar bowl.
Of course, there is an issue here which confuses me - we know that there's important evidence inside the sugar bowl, and that Esmé had that sugar bowl, but who put it there? Lemony stole it from Esmé, and the implication is that he put the important evidence in there himself, but if that's true, why was Esmé so furious about it being taken? Her anger only makes sense, to me, if she'd hidden something inside it herself.
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Antenora
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Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Jun 16, 2005 9:44:43 GMT -5
Perhaps Esme put something inside it that could incriminate her(or would prove to be incriminating in the future); a note to Olaf, perhaps, that dealt with their plans.
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Post by Ennui on Jun 16, 2005 10:36:17 GMT -5
But Kit suggested the Sugar Bowl system, as we know from Lemony's letter to her...
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Post by Dante on Jun 16, 2005 10:48:12 GMT -5
Exactly. See? It's muddled. One explanation is that Lemony's use for the sugar bowl, as suggested by Kit (and indeed, according to the letter, she didn't even specify that the object should be a sugar bowl), is different from the "offical" V.F.D. use for sugar bowls. That would explain also the inconsistencies between the U.A. and the main series, to an extent, as in the main series there is only one sugar bowl, but in the U.A. sugar bowls are clearly frequently used.
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Post by A. the Returned on Jun 18, 2005 0:39:27 GMT -5
If I remember rightly the only day ever mentioned in the series is Thursday and I think there were also other mentions of it, possibly in relation to either Beatrice or the Baudelaire fire.
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Antenora
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Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Jun 18, 2005 6:45:34 GMT -5
I don't clearly remember any other mentions of Thursday besides the VFD meeting and tea party ones. Exactly. See? It's muddled. One explanation is that Lemony's use for the sugar bowl, as suggested by Kit (and indeed, according to the letter, she didn't even specify that the object should be a sugar bowl), is different from the "offical" V.F.D. use for sugar bowls. That would explain also the inconsistencies between the U.A. and the main series, to an extent, as in the main series there is only one sugar bowl, but in the U.A. sugar bowls are clearly frequently used. I agree. While many sugar bowls have had messages hidden in them over the years, it's a particular one that the Baudelaires and Olaf are searching for. Kit may have thought of the sugar bowl system, but perhaps Olaf and Esme learned of it somehow.
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Post by Dante on Jun 18, 2005 6:47:15 GMT -5
The 2004 calendar had the alleged date that the alleged Baudelaire mansion allegedly burned down. Could somebody find their calendar / the thread where it was typed up and see whether that date was a Thursday? I looked earlier, but couldn't find the latter. I never possessed the former.
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Antenora
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Post by Antenora on Jun 18, 2005 6:51:21 GMT -5
It's March 31st, which is a Wednesday that year.
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Post by Dante on Jun 18, 2005 7:12:40 GMT -5
Thank you. Well, that throws out that Thursday reference. Not that it should have been taken literally, if it were a Thursday, but it would have been another Thursday reference, all the same.
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
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Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
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Post by Antenora on Jun 18, 2005 7:25:56 GMT -5
Thursdays, from the 04 calendar: -Thursday, Feb 26: Jacques Snicket "taken" and initiated into VFD. -Thurs, March 18: Jacques Snicket, given his first assignment, disguises himself accordingly. -Thurs, May 13: 9 cows arrested by the authorities under suspicion of involvement with VFD. Jacques Snicket, disguised as the tenth cow, escapes in a stolen tractor. -Thurs, Sept 23: Summer is dead and Jacques Snicket does not return. VFD changes his status to "missing". -Thurs, Dec 2: Jacques Snicket reported ill. -Thurs, Jan 27, 2005: VFD declares remaining Snicket siblings "either missing or on vacation".
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Post by PJ on Jun 18, 2005 7:31:19 GMT -5
Thursdays, from the 04 calendar: -Thursday, Feb 26: Jacques Snicket "taken" and initiated into VFD. -Thurs, March 18: Jacques Snicket, given his first assignment, disguises himself accordingly. -Thurs, May 13: 9 cows arrested by the authorities under suspicion of involvement with VFD. Jacques Snicket, disguised as the tenth cow, escapes in a stolen tractor. -Thurs, Sept 23: Summer is dead and Jacques Snicket does not return. VFD changes his status to "missing". -Thurs, Dec 2: Jacques Snicket reported ill. -Thurs, Jan 27, 2005: VFD declares remaining Snicket siblings "either missing or on vacation". Lot's of Jacques in there. Perhaps he died on a Thursday, as well....
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