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Post by Invisible on May 14, 2010 15:00:05 GMT -5
There's a schism. Of course XD
EDIT: Yeah, sorry, I should go into more depth here. I posted that quickly because I would have missed the beginning of Ashes to Ashes. Well, I meant was, because of the two sides fighting one another made it worldwide. Hence starting WW2. I don't know how to fit Hitler in it all though. But meh, it's an alternate universe. Maybe the Holocaust never happened?
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 14, 2010 20:27:03 GMT -5
Well, this is an interesting concept. I guess, eventually, the VFD would become public knowledge? I wonder what that world will be like, by the '70s.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on May 14, 2010 23:01:29 GMT -5
LSWannaBe: I should have realized it was the schism, but your explanation made it easier to understand. And yes, since ASoUE is a mixture of decades, I don't see any reason why WWII couldn't be different than the one in our world. Like Quags said, it'll be interesting to see what ideas you come up with later on for your ficverse.
P.S: It's quite late here, and so I'm going to read the next chapter of Dag Inne om Liv av Olaf tomorrow. I just didn't want you to think I wasn't interested if you saw I hadn't reviewed it yet.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 14, 2010 23:22:31 GMT -5
I'm kind of deliberating on whether or not the ASOUE books should actually exist in the ASOUE Universe. I know freebird is firmly against the idea, since it seems a bit too stalkerish. As I've mentioned in previous topics, the only way the idea could even really work is either if Lemony Snicket had ESP - or if we allow for multiple layers of canonicity.
I definitely understand the objections of freebird - but, on the other hand, it seems to be commonly believed that the ASOUE books are supposed to exist in the ASOUE universe.
If we go with the belief, though, that the ASOUE books do exist in the ASOUE Universe - then The Bad Beginning probably came out at around the time that the VFD has completely dissolved. It wasn't until some time later, that Lemony Snicket was finally allowed to make public the VFD.
Again, I'm just throwing this out here. I'm not saying that I 100% intend to incorporate this with my ficverse, since I sort of understand the reasons both for and against having the ASOUE books exist in the ASOUE Universe.
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Post by Seymour Glass on May 14, 2010 23:26:52 GMT -5
I don't think the Baudelaires would want their life stories to be revealed to the world.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 14, 2010 23:30:14 GMT -5
Good point about that. I'm sure that the memories of the events are distressing enough for them, as it is.
BTW, do you think Sunny would even remember the events? Personally, I would rather that she doesn't - because a little kid really should not have to remember all that tragedy.
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Post by Seymour Glass on May 14, 2010 23:37:50 GMT -5
I agree with you there.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on May 16, 2010 14:22:15 GMT -5
Me, too. I imagine that Violet and Klaus would try and keep the truth from Sunny, as a means of protecting her.
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Post by Seymour Glass on May 17, 2010 10:58:49 GMT -5
I don't think Violet and Klaus would even tell their tragic story to Lemony.
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Post by Hermes on May 17, 2010 11:51:06 GMT -5
Hm.
I think the ASOUE books definitely exist in the ASOUE world. There's no doubt that Lemony is a character in that world, and he says a lot about his research, where he has been and who he has interviewed, and so on. Also Beatrice shows signs of having read some of the books.
It's true that actually to get all those details right he would have to have supernatural powers. But this is a problem that often arises with stories which have an in-story narrator; they are telling us more than they could really know. There is also the possibility that he hasn't got everything right; he knows the basic shape of the story but is filling in the details from his imagination. In recent interviews Daniel Handler has called him an unreliable narrator. I take this to mean not that he actually has something to conceal, just that like all historians he is fallible.
I think that L has a motive for telling the story, first, if he began writing while the unfortunate events were still happening, to draw attention to the Baudelaires' plight, then, from TVV onwards, to defend them against false accusations. Of course, after TPP things get more complicated because he actually is drawing attention to something bad that they have done, even if with noble motives.
As for Sunny, I think she remembered. She's clearly developed mentally beyond her age; and Beatrice, who is even younger, seems to remember a lot from her first year.
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Post by Seymour Glass on May 17, 2010 12:21:57 GMT -5
Another way Lemony could get details is if Violet and Klaus told him their story.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 17, 2010 12:43:47 GMT -5
I guess the issue I have with the whole idea of the ASOUE books existing in the ASOUE Universe is the whole dialogue. Even if the Baudelaires did tell Lemony Snicket everything, how would he be able to get the dialogue accurate?
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on May 18, 2010 10:15:07 GMT -5
Yes, that's true. However, I don't think that any dialogue is ever 100% accurate. Unless, of course, you have a tape recorder handy. So maybe Lemony had one if he somehow managed to interview the Baudelaires?
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Post by Hermes on May 18, 2010 11:26:52 GMT -5
I don't think L can actually have interviewed the Baudelaires, becuase in The End he says he doesn't know what happened to them - were they drowned? did they rejoin VFD under new names? and so on.
However, by the end of the series Lemony had probably been to the island and read A Series of Unfortunate Events, which would have helped him fill in some details - including ones from earlier in the series, if the Baudelaires recorded something of their history there.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on May 21, 2010 2:40:27 GMT -5
I guess the question boils down to, when it comes to writing fanfic, are we supposed to imagine everything exactly as they were described in the books? Granted, it looks like most of us have taken some liberties with the canon source - likely, in part, due to various inconsistencies within the canon source itself. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but my question is sort of the issue I have with the whole "recursive canon" idea.
I'm still undecided as whether or not to have the ASOUE books exist in the ASOUE Universe - but I guess the point is, if Lemony Snicket doesn't have ESP, then we have to allow for two layers of canonicity (the events as they "really" happened, and the events as Lemony Snicket described them). I don't think even the Baudelaires themselves would remember the exact dialogue to everything.
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