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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 7, 2011 13:18:24 GMT -5
Since we have an entire topic devoted to Maxwell Squalor from Emma Squalor's ficverse (who, most definitely, is not a rational parent), I figured we could start another topic devoted to parents who are more rational.
I see Quigley and Violet, Klaus and Isadora, and Duncan and Jennifer being pretty much the same way - when it comes to parenting.
Here are some rules I think they would have:
1. No jumping on the bed. Why? Because you could fall off and hurt yourself. Also, it makes the springs come loose - and then the bed won't be as comfortable. And the bed frame could break.
2. No playing ball, jumping rope, or doing gymnastics in the house. Why? Because you could break something.
3. Say "please" and "thank you". Why? Because it's good manners, and it makes the other person feel good - and wouldn't you want others to do the same with you?
4. If you never tasted something before, eat as many bites of it which corresponds with your age. If you still don't like it - you'll never have to eat it, again. Why? Because it's important to try new things.
5. No picking your nose and eating it in public. If you do it in private, that's fine. Why? Because it makes other people feel sick to see you do it.
6. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom. Why? Because it prevents the spread of germs.
7. Do not litter. Why? Because it creates pollution, and it's against the law. Mommy and Daddy could get in trouble with the police.
8. Do your chores. Why? Because we share this house - and it prepares you for independent living, when you grow up.
9. Share your toys with your friends. Put away any toys you don't wish to share beforehand. Why? Because it's polite, and you would want your friends to share with you.
10. Clean up after yourself. Why? Because you should take responsibility for yourself, and you wouldn't want to clean up after someone else.
11. Don't chew with your mouth open, or talk with your mouth full. Why? Because it's bad manners, and it's unpleasant to look at.
12. Buckle your seat belt. Why? Because, if you don't, you could get hurt - if there was an accident. Also, it's the law.
13. Do not hit or kick other people. Why? Because it hurts them, and you wouldn't want others to hit or kick you.
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Since a lot of kids (and some adults, like me) don't like canned vegetables, I think the three immediate families would keep lots of carrots and celery (and other raw vegetables) around the house. Kids usually do like raw carrots and celery. And also they would keep lots of fresh fruit (during the summer, anyway).
Since many experts are saying that chocolate milk is almost as good as white milk, I think the three immediate families would be big chocolate milk drinkers.
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I'm trying to figure out how the parents would handle the whole bedtime issue. I don't think they would enforce the whole "go to sleep" issue, since you can't really make someone fall asleep - but they would insist that the children stay in their rooms and that the light is turned off. I think they would tell their children bedtime stories, tuck them in, and then kiss them on the foreheads.
The stalling tactics is kind of a tricky issue to figure out, though. If they have to go to the bathroom, then they should go - and they should have a drink of water, when they're thirsty. If they're afraid of monsters, the parents could create a "monster spray" (in reality, probably a type of fragrance) - and spray their rooms with it, before turning off the light. I think children can have the music on, but not too loud.
A big part of the "bedtime battles" is the whole conflict of interests. Children don't want to stop playing to go to bed, while parents want a little "me time" - both of which are perfectly natural. Also, children require a certain amount of sleep at night.
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What about you guys, and your characters? Also, I'm open to suggestions.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Jul 11, 2011 14:10:00 GMT -5
What a neat topic! And yes, the other characters do deserve one of their own, after the creation of our Maxwell thread. I'll have to think up some rules and such for the other characters in my ficverse. However, I think Esme and Jerome, as well as Carmelita and Nero, would sometimes be in conflict, when it came to how to raise their children. I recognize a lot of the rules my parents set for my brother and me when we were kids. One suggestion I do have for you is this: when the families go on an outing together, the parents tell their kids not to run off by themselves to keep from getting lost. (I remember my mom and dad discussing this with me when I was around five.) Oh, and I agree with you about canned vegetables. I prefer mine frozen, though when it comes to fruit, I like it fresh.
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Post by colette on Jul 12, 2011 15:03:19 GMT -5
I guess Fernald and Jennifer. But in general I am against anything rational. I am for everything dark and irrational. How me, the Queen of CCC can be for something rational?
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 18, 2011 2:26:48 GMT -5
One suggestion I do have for you is this: when the families go on an outing together, the parents tell their kids not to run off by themselves to keep from getting lost. (I remember my mom and dad discussing this with me when I was around five.) That is definitely a good one! Here are some more ideas, inspired by freebird from another forum: 1. You should give your kids a good reason why they can't do something or why they're required to do something. Saying "because I said so" will just make kids feel resentful. 2. Recognize that your children have a right to their own opinions. While taking away their privileges might force them to outwardly agree with you, your kids will learn to resent you. Agreeing to disagree is not the same thing as "letting them win". It's recognizing that they themselves are individuals. 3. Of course, your children should respect you - but you also need to respect your children. Even though you brought them into this world, and not the other way around - it doesn't means that they should not be valued as individuals. Respect is a two-way street. 4. Just because you think your child is lying to you, it doesn't mean that they necessarily are. If children say the opposite of what you believe, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are wrong. Children should be listened to, and not punished for daring to correct you. Of course, these are more guidelines that the parents themselves would follow. I think children are actually less likely to rebel, if parents are not too strict on their children. It doesn't mean that you should let them get away with anything, since they should definitely be taught things like being kind and considerate to one another. That's probably the most important value, actually.
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Post by Invisible on Jul 18, 2011 3:11:20 GMT -5
Snickets' parents had a rule about swearing, which (mostly) Kit ignored
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 18, 2011 12:56:12 GMT -5
I'm having a tough time with the swearing thing. I don't want the parents to be overly prudish - but, on the other hand, should the children really be using the f-word willy-nilly? I think if you don't make swearing a completely forbidden thing, then children will be less likely to overuse it for shock value. Still, there are certain times and places where they shouldn't swear. They should probably be taught some alternatives to swearing, that there are other ways to express your frustrations and such. Still, they don't act as if swearing such a terribly bad thing to do.
Then, of course, there's the difference between "f*ck you" and "f*ck yeah". I think the former is bad, not so much because of the swearing, but because you're verbally assaulting someone. Same thing with calling someone a "b*tch".
This is a tough one for me.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Jul 19, 2011 10:17:46 GMT -5
That is definitely a good one! Thank you! ^^ I agree, as well, with freebird's suggestions. I remember getting the "Because I said so" answer when I was a kid, and it was always rather irritating. While I'll admit some children question their parents' choices as a way to test their patience, there are other children who are just looking for an honest answer. As for the swearing, I think it's perfectly acceptable to get away with some words. Growing up, there was something of an unwritten rule in my house that my brother and I were allowed to use words like "hell", "damn", and "c*ap". I guess we used the "f" word on occasions, too, though probably more frequently by ourselves and around our friends than at home. Now that we're older, our whole family swears quite frequently, but we're the type who only do so when and where it's acceptable. beth: LOL! I guess the Snickets must have gotten tired of pushing the swear rule on Kit, after it became apparent that she had no intention on following it. Because her parents were both very patient, soft-spoken individuals, I think the only swearing Esme would be exposed to would be that of her schoolmates. Since so many of them bullied her, I think she would make an effort not to mimic them. If she did swear, I think she would do it alone, to avoid getting into trouble with her parents and teachers. I don't think it would be until later on, when she was thirteen and she began living with Olaf, that she would throw these cautions to the wind. Olaf, I firmly believe, would swear freely no matter who's around (especially because there is evidence of him saying "damn" in front of the Baudelaires and Uncle Monty in TRR). I think most of the members of his acting troupe - except for Fernald, who I've always seen as being a sort of big brother to Esme when she was younger - would be big on swearing, too. Given his parents' strained relationship I think that, growing up, Jerome would overhear a lot of arguments involving swearing. Of course, it's perfectly understandable that he would repeat what he heard at school or to his friends, having no idea what he was saying. Only when a teacher or older acquaintance took him aside and explained what the word or words meant than would he realize it was wrong for a child his age to speak them out loud.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 19, 2011 14:26:30 GMT -5
I think "damn", "hell", "cr*p, ", and "p*ss are not real swear words - and "ass" is starting to get there. I think that c-word that rhymes with "punt" is even worse than the f-word, and the children probably should be discouraged from using that word. Also, they really should be using proper terms to describe certain body parts. As for the "b*tch" word, there is definitely a misogynistic undercurrent to that word - although some feminists have "reclaimed" the word as a usage of empowerment. So, that's sort of a tough one. Of course, some parents don't even like their children to be using the word "fart" - preferring usage of the word "toot", instead. This is one of the trickier parts of parenting.
Also, what are your ideas on the "bedtime battle" issues that I mentioned in my first post?
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Jul 20, 2011 10:37:16 GMT -5
I heard "c*ap" mentioned on a children's cartoon series once, so there's some more evidence that it isn't a real swear word. And since the original definition of "ass" refers to a donkey, I see little to no reason why some people consider it a swear word. I loathe the "c" word, which is probably the most derogatory term one can use to refer to a woman. I can't even bring any of the male characters in my stories to call a woman that, even if it's in the said male character's personality to do so. When I do speak the word aloud, it's because I'm really, really angry, and almost every time I'm referring to myself. XD I think "b*tch" is one of the tamer swear words because, like "ass", its original meaning refers to an animal. It's no more offensive than calling someone a dog, IMO. Still, if I was the mother of a young child, I wouldn't want them using the word "b*tch* on the playground or at school. If they posed any questions about certain words, I'd explain to them as best I could what the words meant, and why it's important not to say them. I find it quite silly for some parents to discourage their children from using a word like "fart" which, it sounds to me, is no better and no worse than "toot". Personally, I wouldn't mind which of those two words my children used, just as long it was done at an appropriate time and place.
I agree with everything you said about the bedtime issue. Letting children choose a story each night is a good consolation prize in exchange for having to stop playing for the day. After story time, music is a good way to help them fall asleep, especially if they're scared and afraid of the dark. And of course they can have a drink of water and go to the bathroom when they need to. I know some kids use the bathroom as an excuse to leave their rooms at night, but there are others who are being honest when it comes to this. The "monster spray" idea is great, too, and reminds me of an incident from my childhood. I was about five, and came out of my room one night to tell my parents there was a monster in my closet. So my dad came in, beat it up, and threw it out of the house. I don't remember having any more trouble with monsters after that episode. XD
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Post by Seymour Glass on Jul 20, 2011 13:54:29 GMT -5
Isn't the monster spray from Fudge-A-Mania?
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 21, 2011 16:26:35 GMT -5
I knew I got it from somewhere, but I couldn't remember where - but, yes, I did read the book.
I really don't think the parents would be in favour of spanking, and I definitely do not see them withholding food as punishment.
One think I do see them doing though, is this: If the parents find out that their children have teased or bullied someone else, they would drive the kid strait to the victim's house - and have them apologize directly to the victim. Some may find the punishment too harsh - but I really don't, since it drives home the fact that you are not entitled to treat other people like dirt. Yeah, they might feel bad about having to apologize - but it would just give them a little dose of how the victim may have felt, after being picked on by the kid.
Also, Emma Squalor, I'm wondering what your views are on this. You've probably seen me do this scenario a few times, but it's like this: A young kid wears a Led Zeppelin tee-shirt to school. The substitute teacher sees the shirt, and criticizes the kid for liking Led Zeppelin - insisting that the kid should be listening to music that "other kids" listen to, instead. The kid reacts badly by throwing a temper tantrum and kicking the substitute teacher. The kid gets increasing hysterical, as the substitute teacher drags him/her to the principal's office. The parent(s) then get called in.
Who would you sympathize with more? Do you think the kid should be corrected in any way for her/her actions?
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Post by Seymour Glass on Jul 21, 2011 18:13:11 GMT -5
I would be very surprised if they even make Led Zeppelin shirts in that size.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Jul 22, 2011 9:57:38 GMT -5
I really don't think the parents would be in favour of spanking, and I definitely do not see them withholding food as punishment. Oh, no, definitely not. Both the Baudelaires and Quagmires have endured similar situations in their lives to even consider such things (and yes, I do consider spanking a form of child abuse). I don't think this to be too harsh at all, nor do I feel it would necessarily constitute as a punishment. Like you said, it's just a way of parents teaching their child that it's wrong to tease or bully someone else. That is a very good question, Quags. While I believe that the teacher was out of line for both criticizing the kid's taste in music and for having the nerve to tell him/her what they "should" be listening to, I think the kid should be disciplined for their actions. If not, then it's likely he/she will react that way to anyone who criticizes them. But I think the teacher should be dealt consequences as well. He/she should have realized that they have no place when it comes to deciding what type of music their students listen to. That is a choice left to the students and their parents - even though I don't believe parents should have the right to monitor their child's music, just as long as it isn't going to interfere with the child's behavior. I would be very surprised if they even make Led Zeppelin shirts in that size. I don't think they do. You'd probably have to make them using an iron-on transfer.
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Post by Very Funky Disco on Jul 24, 2011 15:02:34 GMT -5
That is a very good question, Quags. While I believe that the teacher was out of line for both criticizing the kid's taste in music and for having the nerve to tell him/her what they "should" be listening to, I think the kid should be disciplined for their actions. If not, then it's likely he/she will react that way to anyone who criticizes them. But I think the teacher should be dealt consequences as well. He/she should have realized that they have no place when it comes to deciding what type of music their students listen to. That is a choice left to the students and their parents - even though I don't believe parents should have the right to monitor their child's music, just as long as it isn't going to interfere with the child's behavior. You do make some good points. I think, the first time around, a talking to would probably be enough. Maybe discuss with the kid alternatives to how they could handle the situation. Make it clear that, while how the kid reacted was wrong, the teacher was also in the wrong. If it happens, again - then some discipline would probably be called for. What do you think about letting kids lounge around in their pajamas all day? I don't really see any problem with it, as long as they're modest.
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Post by Emma “Emmz” Squalor on Jul 25, 2011 14:46:25 GMT -5
You do make some good points. I think, the first time around, a talking to would probably be enough. Maybe discuss with the kid alternatives to how they could handle the situation. Make it clear that, while how the kid reacted was wrong, the teacher was also in the wrong. If it happens, again - then some discipline would probably be called for. Thank you, Quags. I like your ways of handling the situation as well. It's always important to let both people know when they're wrong, even if one of those people happens to be an adult. Oh, I'm all for it! After all, what does it matter if one prefers to spend the day in their pajamas when they have no other plans? Besides, donning your pajama pants in public seems to have been situating in the category of "socially acceptable" for several years now.
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