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Post by Songbird on Jul 7, 2013 8:42:37 GMT -5
Ok everyone the discussion is starting now! Lets begin
What do you think so far of the narrator? I know she's supposed to be 16 or so but she comes across as a bit older
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Post by Hermes on Jul 7, 2013 11:19:27 GMT -5
Interesting question. It's a long time since I was sixteen, so I find it hard to say. Also I guess she's channelling the author, and it's quite a long time since DH was sixteen too. Is it anything in particular about her that makes you think this?
Since my original copy has broken up, and bits of it have now started to disappear, I have, with Dante-like devotion, bought a new copy for the reread. I hope it will stay together till we are finished. It probably will, since we plan for the reading to take less time than Ed and Min's relationship.
I have a few introductory thoughts:
The dedication is interesting: I don't know who Charlotte is, but it reminds us that this is a collaborative work; it is by DH and Maira Kalman, and they get equal credit, since the art is thought of as being as important as the text.
Bandit reminded us that this resembles the letter that Beatrice sent to Lemony. They clearly aren't very alike, since B's relationship with L was not at all like Ed's with Min (B was the sports star, if I remember rightly, but L was a cheerleader), but it may be a sort of clue to the sort of things such a letter might have contained. But look out for other ASOUE parallels - there's one fairly big one, and a few little ones. I'm not sure if I have spotted them all.
It also recalls The Basic Eight a bit - Min's group are rather like TB8, though her voice is not at all like Flan's.
Charlie mentioned how naive Min is. At points she realises how naive she has been and comments on it, but are there other places where she still isn't seeing it?
Apparently none of the films mentioned in the book really exist, though it would be rather nice if some of them did. I find the invented films one of the most fascinating things in the book.
I have a few thoughts about specific passages as well, but I'll leave them for later.
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Post by bandit on Jul 7, 2013 18:53:55 GMT -5
To be honest I think Handler captured the voice of a 16-year-old perfectly. The average teenager, even if they seem like/think they're intellectual or mature for their age, is still quite naïve. To me, Min's impressions of her naïveté are filled with irony. She goes on about how foolish she was with Ed, and how she regrets ever falling for him, while it's been mere months since the events occurred. Things are often blown out of proportion when your life is changing in your teen years, so Min reminiscing and reflecting on her actions seems a bit ridiculous when you put it into perspective; essentially she hasn't changed at all. This, among other things, is a perfect instance of how effective Handler's 16-year-old voice is.
On another note, DH still keeps that atmosphere of mockery in his writing that is so perceptible in ASoUE. Personally I think it's what makes his stuff so great. In ASoUE, it's like he's amusing himself by filling the books with strange concepts and incidents because he knows that children will take it seriously since they don't recognize the absurdity. In WWBU Min treats a high school relationship as a tale of immense woe, which is a bit histrionic, but Handler knows that some teen readers will be sympathetic to Min's expereince. It's kind of like how The Catcher in the Rye has become a source of comfort for some people, even though it's intended to be a look into the mind of a disturbed individual.
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Post by Songbird on Jul 7, 2013 23:37:59 GMT -5
I definitely agree with you, I felt that way about numerous relationships and even some now. Hermes I feel like she comes across as not much older, maybe just a few years. I'm not so sure, I have a 15 (almost) 16 year old sister so when I'm reading I try to keep that in mind. Maybe its not so much that she comes across as older but is intentionally trying to portray herself as older and wiser given the fact that she's writing all this for Ed
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 8, 2013 0:42:16 GMT -5
I think Bandit is right, and it's not only about how Min thinks she has changed even though it's only a short time, it's also about how long the relationship lasted. It sounds like it was half of her life or something and then it's not even 2 months.
To me Min seems a little arrogant, maybe that's because of the same reasons why she seems older for some of you. It's the way she thinks of her past and thinks she has grown up so much and is so wise now, but also how she always writes about films and all these "Of course you don't know"s. Of course that's fitting, because she's writing to her ex-boyfriend and she wants to make him feel like that.
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Post by Hermes on Jul 8, 2013 13:43:02 GMT -5
It seems to me she could be sixteen - she's not a typical sixteen-year-old, of course, but she's not meant to be: she's arty/different. She's very eloquent, but some teenagers are. I can well imagine Daniel Handler at sixteen, had he been female, being like that.
Yes, it's a short relationship, but it was life-changing; it involves her losing her virginity (not a spoiler, since she mentions it in the section with the matches). I wonder if this is really a matter of teenagers overestimating the importance of things, or more of adults underestimating them, looking back and saying 'Oh, it can't really have been that important, it was only two months', and not really appreciating what it felt like at the time.
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Post by Songbird on Jul 8, 2013 18:42:07 GMT -5
Has anyone ever felt that a particular relationship, while short, was significant in any way? If so, would you have gone out of your way to drop off all his stuff
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Post by Becca on Jul 9, 2013 11:59:06 GMT -5
Has anyone ever felt that a particular relationship, while short, was significant in any way? If so, would you have gone out of your way to drop off all his stuff Well I've never been through a breakup but I know that if my current boyfriend ever breaks up with me cruelly (like he cheats on me,or if he just cuts me off) I'll return everything he's ever given me. But if we just start to i don't know..drift..then I'll keep it.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 9, 2013 12:07:25 GMT -5
Becca, there's a massive spoiler in your post.
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Post by Becca on Jul 9, 2013 13:11:31 GMT -5
shizzlenit i will delete that goodbye
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 9, 2013 13:21:20 GMT -5
Much better
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Post by Becca on Jul 9, 2013 15:07:50 GMT -5
I feel like such a horrible human right now, have you read it Anka?
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Jul 9, 2013 15:11:52 GMT -5
The book? half. Your spoiler? Yes. But it's okay. You're not terrible at all
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Post by Becca on Jul 9, 2013 15:17:34 GMT -5
okay...good as long I didn't ruin it for you, and hopefully anyone else that read that
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Post by bandit on Jul 9, 2013 16:23:51 GMT -5
I'd only read the part we were discussing
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