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Post by Dante on Oct 2, 2014 7:59:03 GMT -5
Time and chronology have always been a bit weird in Snicket's hands. After a certain number of years you just have to roll with it.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 2, 2014 8:43:14 GMT -5
Time and chronology have always been a bit weird in Snicket's hands. After a certain number of years you just have to roll with it. Oh, absolutely: I mentioned as much in my review. I do think, though, that this is particularly uncomfortable in a detective-style story, where we are being invited to ask 'What could plausibly have happened?', and yet some of the things that are happening are not plausible. (Though I suppose we had the same problem with Harry Potter. I remember once reading a elaborate theory which came to the triumphant conclusion 'Therefore either Snape is evil or Rowling can't do maths!', and all the commenters were saying 'Well, of course Rowling can't do maths.')
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Post by Agathological on Oct 2, 2014 12:22:46 GMT -5
I was surprised we didn't have any mention of Margurite Gracq, Jackie and Oliver Sobel in SYBIS. I'm guessing the laudanum got to them. I am trying to place where canonically those stories in FU:13SI take place in the ATWQ native. I don't expect anything exclusive to File Under to reappear unless it's recontextualised (like "No way, Fay Wray," which I believe originates in that volume). So I was never really expecting the likes of Marguerite, Jackie and Oliver to show up, but I think when Snicket mentions in Chapter One that he recognised some of the schoolchildren, then that is a nod to such characters. I guess so, or else that jail cell is going to get a bit crowded. Sure was convenient for ?a, though. Can you remind me what those were? I remember that the Black Cat's attic held blank books (now used) and gears used in botanical extraction (which are a bit more ambiguous). One thing I was expecting was a mention of a distillery. Me too, but I suppose that's another off-screen story. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit more to it than that. The distillery got me too; Moxie says that Snicket has met the Williams who work there; well we sure haven't! Do they distil laudanum perchance? The famous Stain'd-by-the-Sea poppy fields? (I jest) Well, clearly Hangfire is getting a lot of laudanum from somewhere. The Swinster Pharmacy, perchance? Mostly, I'm a little confused about the library plan. Obviously some suspension of disbelief needs to occur in Snicket books (breaking out of the jail in the Vile Village still comes to mind of a tough one to swallow), but something about the scale of transporting, literally, an entire library in a wagon, feels like "too much". We never see the wagon in a drawing, but it's small and light enough for some teenagers to throw it over a wall, and to not be destroyed under its own weight on impact. Plus the amount of time it would take to empty out and restock a library two separate times all seemingly occurs in a single night. This one I think we'll have to put down to suspension of disbelief, but maybe both libraries are a bit smaller than we're imagining - which is more than conceivable, I'd say. Snicket's associates are kidnapped after breakfast. Snicket heads over to the Wade Academy after lunch, waits until nightfall, and gets whopped over the head and falls unconscious until farther into the night. I would agree, therefore, that the associates have spent less than a day in Wade at this point, but it would've been a fairly long day and they're fairly resourceful children. in the first book snicket goes in the attic of black cat coffee and sees medical supplies for doctor Flammarion (I guess that's the Beekabackabooka) and electrical supplies; which haven't been mentioned since.
It was also interresting that we finally got the names of Snicket's fraud parents; Handler seems to be putting a lot more context in this series than ASoUE.
And a finally note, Snicket says he needs a naturalist to examine the treebark; I guess we will see Armstrong in the finale.
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Post by Dante on Oct 2, 2014 14:15:36 GMT -5
in the first book snicket goes in the attic of black cat coffee and sees medical supplies for doctor Flammarion (I guess that's the Beekabackabooka) and electrical supplies; which haven't been mentioned since. Ah, yes; the electrical equipment, tube-shaped, addressed to a pair of unfamiliar initials. A.F.? I.I.? I.S.? Only the latter have ever been indicated to use their initials only in the series... An interesting pair, aren't they? They were supposed to help, it says, but ended up making things worse. I assume that they're V.F.D. double agents with the Official Police Department - or, if you prefer, O.P.D. - and that they're meant to be covering up for V.F.D.; however, owing to their somewhat extreme interpretation, they would rather see Kit banged up. I would argue that Armstrong Feint has been in every book in the series, winking emoticon.
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Post by Agathological on Oct 2, 2014 14:31:46 GMT -5
in the first book snicket goes in the attic of black cat coffee and sees medical supplies for doctor Flammarion (I guess that's the Beekabackabooka) and electrical supplies; which haven't been mentioned since. Ah, yes; the electrical equipment, tube-shaped, addressed to a pair of unfamiliar initials. A.F.? I.I.? I.S.? Only the latter have ever been indicated to use their initials only in the series... An interesting pair, aren't they? They were supposed to help, it says, but ended up making things worse. I assume that they're V.F.D. double agents with the Official Police Department - or, if you prefer, O.P.D. - and that they're meant to be covering up for V.F.D.; however, owing to their somewhat extreme interpretation, they would rather see Kit banged up. I would argue that Armstrong Feint has been in every book in the series, winking emoticon. Dante, I thought the very same thing, winking emoticon with a sly smile. Why would be lie to his own daughter?
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Post by Hermes on Oct 2, 2014 14:37:07 GMT -5
I would argue that Armstrong Feint has been in every book in the series, winking emoticon. I found it rather odd that Lemony said what he said about a naturalist so late in the story, given his reaction to a couple of bits of evidence earlier. (And I must admit that with the new evidence, notably that from Polly Partial, your reading of events is looking more plausible - though I still feel it leaves something unexplained.)
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Oct 2, 2014 15:44:18 GMT -5
Here follow's mine and Anka's collaborative comments for our collabortive reading of the book
Chapter One (i've not spoilered this as i assume most people will have read the previews)
so, the orange is very umm... orange.
I don't recall any previous mention of Stain'd secondary before this book - it feel rather shoehorned in.
It's interesting that the book starts in the library. I wouldn't have expected that, I thought he would probably go there later to find something out, when we already know what he is trying to find out.
Is Porter roeman hangfire? or is that to obvious?
i like this chapter
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Post by Dante on Oct 2, 2014 15:55:55 GMT -5
Live reading comments are great fun. I look forward to hearing more.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 2, 2014 16:14:18 GMT -5
I don't recall any previous mention of Stain'd secondary before this book - it feel rather shoehorned in. I don't think it's that surprising. While there are a lot of working children in town, it's reasonable to expect that some go to school, but L wasn't concerned with them. There were probably schools in Tedia, Paltryville etc., but we never heard about them either. One thing that puzzles me, though, is that if Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town, what do they do about primary school? I don't think so. He may well be a member or sympathiser of the IS, since his business was destroyed by the draining, which seems to be what roused them to anger. But he must therefore have been in town quite recently, while we later hear from Polly Partial that Hangfire is someone she remembers from a long time ago.
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Post by Agathological on Oct 2, 2014 16:31:47 GMT -5
Honest question here; and I hope it's not reality but: Do you think that it is Theodora that is going to die? I hope not; I found her catharsis in this book to be a great highlight in her character (however brief it was mind you; because she went on her tirade about Bertrand when Snicket came back from Wade Academy.) If not her though, who? Since Theodora always announces the crime at the start of the book; I don't think she is the initial murder victim. But I hope she doesn't die.
Also, will we see her sister?
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Post by prestorjohn on Oct 2, 2014 18:11:39 GMT -5
Does anyone think that we have in fact two references to Olaf in this book? Of course, there's the obvious one that Ellington makes as to the graffiti in the tower. However, in the Rare Edition of the Bad Beginning, in the endnotes, Snicket draws a great deal of attention to the difference between the volunteer fire department and the official fire department, to which he remarks that he thinks the O may stand for something else (Olaf, clearly). The prominence of the patch on the police officer's arm that says "OPD" in the first illustration of Kit having her mugshot taken makes me think of that.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Oct 3, 2014 1:13:35 GMT -5
One thing that puzzles me, though, is that if Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town, what do they do about primary school? Good question
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Post by Dante on Oct 3, 2014 2:52:43 GMT -5
One thing that puzzles me, though, is that if Stain'd Secondary is the only school in town, what do they do about primary school? Closed down due to insufficient primary-aged children. They've all grown up into secondary-aged children and not been replaced. ...Such is my theory. Possibly Stain'd Secondary was originally a joint primary and secondary school, too. Honest question here; and I hope it's not reality but: Do you think that it is Theodora that is going to die? I hope not; I found her catharsis in this book to be a great highlight in her character (however brief it was mind you; because she went on her tirade about Bertrand when Snicket came back from Wade Academy.) If not her though, who? Since Theodora always announces the crime at the start of the book; I don't think she is the initial murder victim. But I hope she doesn't die.
Also, will we see her sister? The sister I doubt we'll ever see, though I suppose it's not impossible. As for the ?4 murder victim, I think Theodora is more of a possibility than she was before; I'd previously been considering the murder to likely be of the "why would anyone want to kill this person?" variety, but at this point in the series it seems a lot clearer that the event should be obviously a very big deal. I'm just wondering who the victim can be if there's actually going to be a mystery.
I do intend, after the book's been out about a week, to start a more formal murder sweepstakes - actually, I think I'll go ask Handler a question on Tumblr to unambiguously confirm a hint I think he'd previously given. ...Wait, I can't. They must've gotten too many questions; they've locked the ask box to anonymous submitters, and now you have to have a Tumblr account. Does anyone think that we have in fact two references to Olaf in this book? Of course, there's the obvious one that Ellington makes as to the graffiti in the tower. However, in the Rare Edition of the Bad Beginning, in the endnotes, Snicket draws a great deal of attention to the difference between the volunteer fire department and the official fire department, to which he remarks that he thinks the O may stand for something else (Olaf, clearly). The prominence of the patch on the police officer's arm that says "OPD" in the first illustration of Kit having her mugshot taken makes me think of that. I think it's a reference, but not a substantial or meaningful one - certainly it's hard to see how the Stain'd fire department, and for that matter all other official fire and police departments anywhere, can be under Olaf's malign control. That plot thread never even got developed back where it was still relevant, either, sadly... However, it is clear that Gifford and Ghede must be double agents for V.F.D. within the police, which is a similar thing.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 3, 2014 8:18:36 GMT -5
Having to wait another year for the next book is going to be agony maybe he will be released another supplementary tome. I actually rather doubt this. For ASOUE we got two supplementary volumes - three if you count Horseradish - to thirteen main ones; one supplementary book to four main ones is as good a ratio as that, and it was published in the middle of the series, a natural place for such a thing. If you count 29 Myths as a supplementary volume as well (as Dante's recent report suggests we should) we are doing even better.
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Post by Dante on Oct 3, 2014 8:29:23 GMT -5
It's not impossible that we might get another supplementary volume, though there might be points against it. File Under was announced two months before ?2 came out, though of course a speculative second additional report would merely need to be released two months or more later in relation to ?3 for that to cease to be a consideration. TBL came out a mere month before The End and took a while to be announced, I think (though its existence was leaked shortly after TPP came out). And of course, there's always the possibility of something coming out after ?4. It's hard to anticipate what niche might need filling.
Of course, for say the U.K. and Australia, it would be easy to release a new supplementary volume - as we don't have File Under yet...
Edit: Also, as things stand at present, it's likely to be slightly less than a year before ?4 - ?2 came out a week earlier in October than ?1 did, and ?3 managed September (that's more than a fortnight on ?2). We haven't had to wait a year for any of the books in the series yet. It's possible that Handler's change of publisher from HC to LB might've held up publication, and he's actually a long way ahead in the writing process.
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