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Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 19, 2015 8:39:41 GMT -5
Ugh, my parents are like so smart both my mom and dad graduated with cum laude and i'm stupid as hell i flunk maths economics everything
(confession)
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 19, 2015 11:02:02 GMT -5
like i don't think intelligence is inherited though. i mean, we all have our limitations, but apart from when there's some sort of disability involved, i think it's mostly up to how much effort you put into studying/critical thinking, or whether you're even in an environment where you would get introduced to those things and be supported in your dedication to them I agree that i don't think intelligence is inherited, but i also think intelligence isn't to do with how much effort you put into anything. For example, the two things i was probably best at (in terms of exam results) at school were Maths and History, and i put literally no effort into doing any of those. But then i work hard at things i'm not neccesarily good at, and then i got good results too - but sometimes I think you just can be naturally good at something for no reason.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 19, 2015 11:44:09 GMT -5
I agree in that I think there is such a thing as talent. I think I've read some study recently where it said that even if you put in the hours, you won't get to the performance level of someone who doesn't have to put in the hours to be good. Having said that, even if you're talented you need practice to be more than just good/okay.
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Post by Emerald Snicket on Nov 19, 2015 12:51:49 GMT -5
like i don't think intelligence is inherited though. i mean, we all have our limitations, but apart from when there's some sort of disability involved, i think it's mostly up to how much effort you put into studying/critical thinking, or whether you're even in an environment where you would get introduced to those things and be supported in your dedication to them Intelligence is your capacity/ability to learn. Ugh, my parents are like so smart both my mom and dad graduated with cum laude and i'm stupid as hell i flunk maths economics everything (confession) If you are a student you should always get a good nights sleep unless you have come to the good part of your book, and then you should stay up all night and let your schoolwork fall by the wayside, a phrase which means 'flunk'.
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Post by soufflé on Nov 19, 2015 13:26:21 GMT -5
Um this is all true but for the sake of conversation let's go with the g-factor/capacity definition of intelligence Which is polygenic but mostly with high heritability
So what I kinda wanted to discuss and what people touched on a bit was that this kind of intelligence isn't 100% necessary for success or learning because you could be super smart and not give a potato or not as smart but a hard worker
Also being intelligent might be a blessing and a curse because I feel like lots of smart people get easily cynical
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Nov 26, 2015 10:14:36 GMT -5
I feel there's two different subjects to take up here: The definition of intelligence and the nature/nurture debate, although they definitely tie into each other. Before I say anything more, as this a Disturbing Discussion subject, let me make a disclaimer: All of my opinions and conclusions are based on intuition, based in turn on my experience. I choose to believe that my intuition is somewhat qualified, as I've had two years of Psychology lessons in school, have a high IQ and good grades myself, and have undergone a two-year programme for academically 'gifted' teens. I feel a bit like I'm bragging now, and since we're on the subject of psychological analysis, the chance to show off is probably one of my motivations for listing my merits. But it's also to give the rest of you the chance to decide for yourselves how much stock to put in my observations.
Defining intelligence is an interesting task. I definitely like Gardner's multiple intelligence theory, although I believe there's a correspondence between many of these intelligences; to lend an observation from my Psychology teacher, you rarely see a person with a high interpersonal intelligence and a low intrapersonal intelligence. I don't believe there's a single g-factor, though - maybe a group of interconnected g-factors, although I suppose that is just another way of saying there's fewer intelligences but with more aspects to each.
As for the nature/nurture thing, I think the intelligence capacity view is the most practically accurate way of seeing it, at least that I can think of. You can usually tell whether people have grown up in an academical environment, and those people definitely tend to perform better academically themselves. The interesting thing about this is that it could be due to environmental factors, genetic factors, or equal measures of both, so it's a tendency that really doesn't say as much as it seems to.
Does anyone here know about the Flynn effect? It refers to the fact that the average score on IQ tests is steadily rising, forcing the scale to readjust itself all the time. Is this due to rising average intelligence as education is more readily available than it used to be, or is it simply an expression of educational systems around the world focusing more and more on tests and scores, increasing our ability to perform on tests, but not necessarily our actual intelligence? I think it's an interesting question, partially because I haven't come across anything that indicates what the answer could be.
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Post by soufflé on Nov 26, 2015 10:58:01 GMT -5
I have heard of the Flynn effect. I think familiarity with test taking could be part of it.
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Post by Charlie on Nov 27, 2015 11:09:46 GMT -5
Okay a) Tryina I've known you for a while and I can tell you're not dumb, like obvi, I'm sure you are really good at heaps of things (eg linguistics, writing etc.) B) soufflé if you could explain to me all this geneticky stuff or link me to relevant papers I would be suuuper awesome!!! C) idk kinda smart people can be really mean, but the truly smart people seem to understand that kindness is truly good and beautiful, which is why I love all you smartypantses
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 27, 2015 11:37:59 GMT -5
Okay a) Tryina I've known you for a while and I can tell you're not dumb, like obvi, I'm sure you are really good at heaps of things (eg linguistics, writing etc.) But none of these skills will make me rich or famous! I'm also good at history, but my parents say I should become an artist instead because at least I'm going to be an employed poor person instead of an unemployed one (painters are very under-appreciated in Indonesia, but historians even more so.)
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Post by soufflé on Nov 27, 2015 13:23:32 GMT -5
Who cares about being rich and famous & Charlie- message me
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Post by Reba on Nov 27, 2015 14:12:34 GMT -5
Who cares about being rich and famous well you'll never be rich and famous with that attitude.
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Post by Orangey Snicket on Jan 26, 2016 23:10:29 GMT -5
It's hard to discuss this topic since intelligence can mean so many things, depending on the field you're in. I have a background in education, so I generally see intelligence as a very multi-faceted thing connecting to the Gardner's categories.
People can be booksmart, as they say. These are the ones who excel in school. Others have kinesthetic intelligence -- those are the athletes and craftspeople. And as hippie-ish as it is to say, there's emotional intelligence too, people who can easily identify and start controlling their emotions and who can read other people's feelings accurately.
This is just my personal belief, but I also believe a mark of intelligence is the ability to think critically and deeply about a subject.
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justsylvia
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 94
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Post by justsylvia on Feb 5, 2017 4:43:24 GMT -5
Does anyone here know about the Flynn effect? It refers to the fact that the average score on IQ tests is steadily rising, forcing the scale to readjust itself all the time. Is this due to rising average intelligence as education is more readily available than it used to be, or is it simply an expression of educational systems around the world focusing more and more on tests and scores, increasing our ability to perform on tests, but not necessarily our actual intelligence? I think it's an interesting question, partially because I haven't come across anything that indicates what the answer could be. I suspect that, as intelligence has been valued more as a trait over the last several generations, that future generations are actually growing in intelligence as a whole. Though now that more highly-intelligent people are electing not to have children, maybe this will trend down a little. My husband and I are both quite intelligent, but our children have us beat I'm sure. It's a struggle sometimes to keep up with them! If the predictions in Star Trek hold true, kids thousands of years from now will be exceptional by every current standard. I recall a scene in one episode where a boy who looks to be maybe 9 years old complains to his dad about having to learn calculus! As a 9-year-old! Pretty mind-blowing.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Feb 5, 2017 11:35:52 GMT -5
Fun thing: When I was at school, some people did an experiment for a psychology course. They wanted to find out if and how people's IQ changes after going to a special school for a while. So me and some other people did an IQ test again after 3 years, and we also had to answer some other questions about how happy we are at the school and about our lifestyle. The results of this thing ended up never being published, but everyone could get their own result, and also the people from the course knew about it. Most people's IQ was much lower than when they applied for the school, a lot of them were lower than what you need to have to go there. There were also rumours that people's IQ sank less if they drank more alcohol and spent less time studying for school. I never asked for my own result, because I'm sure it would have been quite low. But also everyone noticed that the test was much more difficult. There are different levels of questions, and you have to do more difficult ones if you are in a higher year of school. I think that makes sense until a certain age, but there shouldn't be that much of a difference for people older than about 16. Of course you still learn things and the brain still develops at that age, but not as quickly as before and maybe in a different way.
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Post by soufflé on Feb 5, 2017 13:46:57 GMT -5
it makes sense that IQ would sink as you get older though, because it's calculated as (age at which people tend to score what you scored) / (your actual age)
when there are more years in your life, scoring 3 years ahead of your age range doesn't make as much difference as it would have if you were a 5yo scoring what's average for a 9yo. a 20yo scoring what's average for a 23yo just doesn't seem as big a deal. so the ratio probably levels out at some point
this is why IQ tests are used more for kids
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