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Post by kjlsnicket29 on Jun 2, 2004 22:09:24 GMT -5
Okay, you know that paragraph at the start of J. Alfred Prufrock's Love Song, by T.S Eliot? Well, I looked all over the web, and I finally got this, the RIGHT translation:
"If I thought that my reply would be to someone who would ever return to earth, this flame would remain without further movement; but as no one has ever returned alive from this gulf, if what I hear is true, I can answer you with no fear of infamy."
That's it. Discuss.
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huh
Reptile Researcher
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Post by huh on Jun 20, 2004 10:45:53 GMT -5
thats interesting!! It sounds like something written in hell...
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter 
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891 
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Post by Antenora on Jun 20, 2004 11:48:52 GMT -5
Written in Hell, it was indeed. Those lines are from Dante's Inferno; the speaker is a damned soul. I'm still not sure how that's connected to the Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock or anything else.
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Post by kjlsnicket29 on Jun 20, 2004 18:17:54 GMT -5
Yeah...it's a wierd, but I think there might be SOME connection...I'm trying to figure out what might BE that connection.. :-/It is indeed interesting.  |
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Post by i. on Aug 22, 2004 20:16:53 GMT -5
That's very strange.
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Post by negativenine on Aug 24, 2004 16:26:42 GMT -5
The full text is
here. The passage at the beginning is just an epigraph... It would be nice to pick this song apart for ASOUE-links, like we did with those other ones... would anyone participate in a discussion like that? Or are you all AFRAID? |
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Antenora
Detriment Deleter
Fiendish Philologist
Put down that harpoon gun, in the name of these wonderful birds!
Posts: 15,891
Likes: 113
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Post by Antenora on Aug 25, 2004 8:48:49 GMT -5
This poem does scare me, but in a good way. I think I'll put the epigram in my sig.
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table;
What a strange bit of imagery this is! And of course it reminds me of Violet anesthietized(did I spell that right?) on her hospital gurney.
I'll get back to this later. It's still early.
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Post by MrBaudelaire on Aug 25, 2004 10:06:28 GMT -5
it sounds like a person who's dying...
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Post by negativenine on Aug 25, 2004 15:06:44 GMT -5
I guess I'll try to shed some light on it. I looked up a few pages, and this one was probably the most helpful: www.poetsforum.com/papers/222_2.htmlThis is good, too. Talks more about Eliot himself, but anaylises the whole poem killingly: www.gradesaver.com/ClassicNotes/Titles/prufrock/fullsumm.htmlSo here's a chunk of that page that talks about themes more broadly: www.gradesaver.com/ClassicNotes/Titles/prufrock/themes.htmlOkay, so if we start at the beginning. If we look at it from Eliot's POV, it seems to allude to death and hell and the like (Dante), but from an ASOUE POV, it connects us to Beatrice right away. The first few lines, as swans said, seem to suggest that he wants to run away with Beatrice, but can't find the courage to ask her and is afraid of rejection (possibly because she's already married? she obviously has reason enough not to marry him, anyway, if she can write him a however-many-page-long book) It looks like the whole thing takes place at a party. One of the articles above suggests a "tea-party" which may be a reference to the sugarbowl-- a VFD meeting -- perhaps it's even the big costume ball. Let's go with this. 32And time yet for a hundred indecisions, 33And for a hundred visions and revisions, 34Before the taking of a toast and tea. This reminds me of VFD and their researching and reading and whatever else they may get up to. The line before talks about passing notes and "dropping a question on her plate"... Okay... so I'm wimping out right now, because my TV show's on. But needless to say, this is one heck of a confusing poem. It seems to basically talk all about Lemony's indecision, and how he acts around Beatrice. The time and death references are recurring themes in the series, too. Especially in the autobiography, time is fragmented and none too clear, just like in this poem . And death may refer to Lemony's own death, which is also a none-too-clear topic. Maybe we should just take this really slowly and do it stanza by stanza or something? Because looking at the whole thing is too much. |
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Post by kjlsnicket29 on Aug 31, 2004 17:27:30 GMT -5
Wow...nice information, guys!  |
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Post by kjlsnicket29 on Aug 31, 2004 17:34:45 GMT -5
49For I have known them all already, known them all:
50Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
51I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
52I know the voices dying with a dying fall
53Beneath the music from a farther room.
54 So how should I presume?
Ok, the first line, I think, has something to do with the burning of all the V.F.Ders houses, him saying he's seen all of them, and the morning, afternoon, evening, thing is sort've like when Beatrice...died?..Not sure on that. The coffee thing might mean when Beatrice went to afternoon tea with Esme, and him basing his life on capturing Esme, or something...and lines 2 and 3 probably mean at the ball, where it played music in the other room, or when he said to Beatrice "Olaf is-" or something. I am not good at making connections, but that's the best I can do.
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