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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 20, 2004 21:36:01 GMT -5
When it comes to something that is generally considered to be alright by soceity, but not with your parents. (i.e. interracial dating) Does it have to be some high and mighty moral cause if you want to feel right about doing it? When you don't agree with one of their rules? When you don't agree with one of their important rules? When you just don't want to do what they tell you?
Should it be a full-scale rebellion, or just not obeying that one rule and copiously keeping all the others, or disobeying without them finding out even though you trule believe that you are right and they are wrong?
On a larger scale, when is it right to break the law of the land?
If it became illegal to, say, write mean things about whoever the president is at the given time, would you do it anyway and face the consequences?
This is probably going to be one of those topics that a lot of people look at but nobody replies to.
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Post by Celinra on Mar 20, 2004 22:44:06 GMT -5
Don't worry, I'll reply to it!
I think, in most circumstances, it's wrong to disobey one's parents. In most cases, their rules are there to protect their children, even if they do seem stupid to the child.
There are times when, due to the generation gap, rules of the parents will seem outdated and unimportant, such as interracial dating. In these cases, I think before just going and breaking these rules, it'd be best to sit down with one's parents, and talk to them about it, with a list of valid reasons why you think this rule should go. If your parents don't agree... well, then they should be listened to. As long as you're under their roof, you should respect what they think, even if they're in the wrong. This does not mean you have to agree with it, just that you obey it and move on.
As for the law of the land, that brings up an interesting thing. With the example given, I think that law would be alright to break, as it takes away freedom of speech (I'm assuming you mean at all times that no one would be able to write mean things about the president, because that right is already limited during wartime, because of "clear and present danger"... i.e. you can't yell "fire" in a theater for no reason and say you were using your first amendment right, since it would probably cause people to get hurt in their rush to escape). If new laws didn't take away rights, and were within reason, and still served their main purpose (to protect the citizens), there's no reason to not obey them.
You may say that the same holds true for parent's rules, and that you shouldn't have to obey them if you feel it takes away your rights and doesn't serve a purpose. This is true, but in general, children will feel as though parent's rules were unfair and pointless, and later discover that they were there for a reason. Once you've gained a certain level of maturity (which you probably have if you're contemplating breaking the law of the land), then you can decide when to break rules, but this level of maturity may not really come until you've moved out, anyways.
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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 20, 2004 22:51:59 GMT -5
Nothing terribly personal, it's just a deep philosophical problem I torture myself with when I don't have any real problems.
Isn't that what all philosophy is for?
Also thinking about Henry David Thorough's book on Civil Disobediance. And about Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
Henry David Thorough said back when he was writing in the 1800s that if one southern slave owner had stood up and publicly freed his slaves, and gone to jail for it, that would've been the end of slavery in America.
It's easy if you have some cut and dry certainly evil thing to rebel against, but how are you supposed to know what is evil?
If that hypothetical slave owner had broken the law his friend would've scratched there heads and said "Well gosh, they are really better off here than in Africa. Here they work for their keep and in Africa they live in terrible awful sin and don't get civilized at all ever and follow paganish religions."
With Rosa Parks, her friends may have said "Well, yeah your a tired old lady and you probably shouldn't have to move like that, but it is the law and at least we aren't slaves anymore. At least we can vote now."
In India, Nigeria, Armania (England, France and Germany in earlier times.) this happened again and again- some set of individuals breaking laws instead of just arguing with them until we reach the relatively free society we have today.
So how are we supposed to know what might be considered as fine and dandy today might not be some unbelievable and unspeakable horror tomorrow?
The only thing that I know is completely and totally wrong is abortion, but how is one supposed to rebel against that?
Why do I have to rebel at all? I secretly wish I were born in a rougher age so I could crusade for justice than instead of wallowing in it now.
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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 20, 2004 22:56:13 GMT -5
Don't worry, I'll reply to it! I think, in most circumstances, it's wrong to disobey one's parents. In most cases, their rules are there to protect their children, even if they do seem stupid to the child. There are times when, due to the generation gap, rules of the parents will seem outdated and unimportant, such as interracial dating. In these cases, I think before just going and breaking these rules, it'd be best to sit down with one's parents, and talk to them about it, with a list of valid reasons why you think this rule should go. If your parents don't agree... well, then they should be listened to. As long as you're under their roof, you should respect what they think, even if they're in the wrong. This does not mean you have to agree with it, just that you obey it and move on. This is the main argument for putting up with all sorts of beauracracy and unfairness and degradation when your a kid- eventually, it will be over. |
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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 20, 2004 23:24:36 GMT -5
I know you do, that's why I'm on your couples list.
Northerners stood up. Run away slaves stood up. Foreigners stood up. No one who's economic well being stood up and decided to change things because it was wrong. Those others could have any number of motives for protesting slavery (most of them probably did) but for a plantation owner to let the people go, when there could not concievably be any earthly gain for him out of it, that makes a statement. That man has an authority none of the others do, because of satyagraha- enduring personal suffering in order to do what's right.
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Post by Charles Vane on Mar 20, 2004 23:31:45 GMT -5
Generally I don't listen to what my parents say. While I know my father loves me he doesn't listen to anything I say. That is he doesn't respect my opinions or my thoughts as long as I be a good little obedient daughter he'd be happy. So when I make a descision it doesn't have to do what my parents want me to do, it's what I think is right. But that doesn't mean I disobey my parents. I'm not going to be stupid and do something just to defy my parents. If I do something they disapprove of, we'll take your example of interracial dating, it'd be because I beleive it. If I go around smoking, and doing drugs and everthing my parents disasprove of then I'd just be a typical rebel trying to go against her parents because she can. If I go against them in one thing, like interracial dating then maybe they'd see because that it would be something of importance to me. Not just something to do because I want to fight them .
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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 20, 2004 23:42:46 GMT -5
So when I make a descision it doesn't have to do what my parents want me to do, it's what I think is right. But that doesn't mean I disobey my parents. I'm not going to be stupid and do something just to defy my parents. There's the question- how can you tell whether or not something is worth fighting for, and when you know that it is do you publicly fight for some extra freedom, or privately enjoy because you know you won't get caught? Edit, to make this less repetitive: In 1984 the method was to enjoy little freedoms in private until you got caught, and then to denounce the oppression somewhat publicly. |
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Post by Celinra on Mar 21, 2004 15:06:30 GMT -5
This is the main argument for putting up with all sorts of beauracracy and unfairness and degradation when your a kid- eventually, it will be over. There is a difference though, between regular rules and degradation. If a parent is actually hurting the child through restrictions, that's a completely different situation. If there's a rule that you have to look in the mirror and repeat that you're a bad kid, or that you can't eat, or other things like that, those rules should be broken. And those are examples from "A Child Called It." |
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Post by Tyler on Mar 21, 2004 15:40:55 GMT -5
Sing it sister. Too bad you don't start sexual topics because people are all over those. XD Anyways... I think to some extent, you have to get a little freedom. Not everything your parents tell you is right. It's just their own personal opinion. If you grow up obeying their rules, you'll do what they did as an adult. You'll become just like them. Some tennagers don't want to be just like their parents. |
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Post by Celinra on Mar 21, 2004 15:48:28 GMT -5
I think to some extent, you have to get a little freedom. Not everything your parents tell you is right. It's just their own personal opinion. If you grow up obeying their rules, you'll do what they did as an adult. You'll become just like them. Some tennagers don't want to be just like their parents. No, you won't be just like your parents. By following the laws of this country, are you just like the president? Anyways, you shouldn't go break rules just because you don't agree with them. At least try to talk with your parents first about why you don't agree with them. It's true that rules are sometimes just a parent's opinion, but this is all the more reason to sit with them and explain your opinion. Also, you shouldn't just go break rules just to 'be different from your parents.' Do you actually think you're any different by rebelling against your parents rules? I bet the majority of people on here have parents who rebelled against some of their parent's rules. Last, even though it may just be their opinion, it is there to protect you, so you should respect it. Trust me, it won't make you a copy of them, unless you want it to. |
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Post by negativenine on Mar 21, 2004 17:08:02 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, Celinra... to a certain extent you need to just grin and bear it, even if you think your parents are wrong, but there are definitely some issues that people will probably never agree on, and that there doesn't seem to be any right answer to. So what do you do if you take a different position on an issue than your parents and neither of you is obviously wrong or is obviously going to be convinced.
Okay, say Abortion... we need an example. Say your parents are very pro-life, but you aren't. You get pregnant at a young age, your boyfriend leaves you, everything gets complicated and you will not be able to take care of your baby, or whatever. I don't want this to turn into an Abortion thread so I'll just say that there are complications and you believe you need that abortion (I know laws on parental consent for abortion vary from state to state and all... but let's try to get this as simple as possible). Let's say your parents aren't going to listen to you: are you supposed to just accept that and have your baby even if you believe you should get that abortion?
There's got to be some difference for issues like that.
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Post by Celinra on Mar 23, 2004 10:23:21 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, Celinra... to a certain extent you need to just grin and bear it, even if you think your parents are wrong, but there are definitely some issues that people will probably never agree on, and that there doesn't seem to be any right answer to. So what do you do if you take a different position on an issue than your parents and neither of you is obviously wrong or is obviously going to be convinced. Okay, say Abortion... we need an example. Say your parents are very pro-life, but you aren't. You get pregnant at a young age, your boyfriend leaves you, everything gets complicated and you will not be able to take care of your baby, or whatever. I don't want this to turn into an Abortion thread so I'll just say that there are complications and you believe you need that abortion (I know laws on parental consent for abortion vary from state to state and all... but let's try to get this as simple as possible). Let's say your parents aren't going to listen to you: are you supposed to just accept that and have your baby even if you believe you should get that abortion? There's got to be some difference for issues like that. Yes, I'll agree that it's definately different in cases like that. It's hard to say for things like that (especially since you used as an example something that's very hard for me to be unbiased on). For something like that... well, it still depends on the age of the kid. If it's a younger teen, they should still take their parent's advice (but in this situation, the parents must also do their best to take advice of doctors, not just blindly say "No abortions!"). If it's an older teen, they should probably decide for themself, but still listen to and respect their parent's opinion (i.e. "I see why you think that, but I'm doing this because...") and not just shut them out completely. Anyways, I still don't think rules themselves will make a person a copy of their parents... at least, not any more that simply living with them for the first 18 years of one's life. |
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Post by Pester, Rumormonger on Mar 23, 2004 22:55:38 GMT -5
I suppose it depends on what kind of rules. If the rules are along the lines of "chew 20 times before swalling, always change before using the bathroom in the morning, don't look people in the eye while your eating" than it at least outwardly appears that you are a copy of what your parents do simply because you follow the same routine. It depends on the difference between some strange Victorian Code of Conduct and, say, the ten commandments. Following the ten commandments doesn't make you like everyone else who follows them, but that Victorian code makes every woman of your approximate station behave just like you.
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