Olaf and The Sinister Duo

[Vanja]

What connection do you personally think they have?
I'm a bit curious about their connection, people have suggested they are his siblings.
Perhaps they're right, but this is a thread to discuss what connection they might have.

[Dante]

The siblings theory came about because of the Family Tree in the U.A., which suggested - although the meaning of that diagram is heavily-disputed - that Olaf had two older siblings, of initials M. and N. The sinister duo seemed like pretty good candidates. However, their connection to Olaf could really be nearly anything.

[Christmas Chief]

I think the sinister duo have a connection with everyone in V.F.D., or at least, everyone on both sides of the schism know who they are. They're a bit like the Great Unknown in that way. Both sides of the schism fear it, and it drives both volunteers and villians away; the difference being that we know the sinister duo are on the villian side, and there's no implications they were ever otherwise. Even before the schism.

Also, was the term "sinister duo" ever mentioned in some sort of supplement, or was it just something that sprang up on 667?

[Dante]

667 coined the term "sinister duo." Might even have been me. It's much shorter, and there's not really any ambiguity about who it could refer to.

[Tiago James Squalor]

I don't think they are his siblings. They are judges of the city high court, and Olaf is an actor and a Count. If they were his siblings, wouldn't they have nobility titles of their own? Plus, no reference to their parents have been murdered with poison darts was made.

[MyKindEditor]

Another one of those asoue mysteries we can only guess at...

[thedoctororwell]

Yeah, they're really part of the most intriguing characters.

I think they serve as leaders of some sort for their side of the schism, or at least, are part of its oligarchy, and that they're definitely Olaf's superiors in the hierarchy.
I think they're supposed to be token representants of the other side of the schism. If we assume that VFD, as it is hinted at, was split because of a big ideological argument, Olaf is not a very good illustration of that. He's just a greedy individualist who revels in sadism because he's angry at the world and doesn't believe in anything, as a consequence of his parents' assassination. As TSS shows, he puts more importance into getting the Baudelaire fortune than in capturing the sugar bowl.
It's very clear when you read Jacques' letter in LSUA that Olaf was originally supposed to be the one that started the schism, but it got retconned later because Handler realized Olaf would never be able to come up with a valid ideological movement or be actually interested in VFD's politics.
The other side of the schism believes in "the Greater Good". According to Esmé it translates as "money." I think they're joking around. They just don't care about VFD anymore, they're just associated with it because of their personal histories and also because it helps them make a profit.
The other side of the schism certainly seems to believe that a Greater Good justifies evil means and corruption of the law, but what their objectives are remains unknown. It doesn't matter what they fight for because it's their methods, and not their aims, which make them inherently evil. They have no excuse. The sinistor duo represents them ; unlike Olaf and Esmé, they are calm and collected. They know all of VFD's secrets and still identify as VFDers. And, in my opinion, they actually have an ideology... Gone horribly wrong, but an ideology for sure.

I think there's a clear separation in the series between primary evil and ideological evil, with two antagonistic figures - Olaf and Ishmael. Primary evil is nothing more than selfishness : because they want to protect their own lives, the Baudelaires end up using all of Olaf's methods to achieve their ends. Olaf is just the embodiment of selfishness, getting everything he wants with no regard for the others. He's the archetype of children's fictions' classical villains ; someone who has no idea about the moral values the parents try to teach their children - selflessness, here. We're into chilhood territory.
But over the course of the series the children learn about another kind of evil, one that doesn't rely on selfishness : ideology gone mad. Gregor is an example ; later on, several decisions of VFDers illustrate that. The Baudelaires themselves end up burning an hotel down, trapping everyone inside because they simply BELIEVE it will save VFD, although they have no clear idea what it is VFD's trying to do and protect. That's where Ishmael comes in. What's so horrifying about him is that he actually believes he's helping his people while all he does is alienating them. Olaf, horrible as he may be, never pretended to be anything but evil, never twisted moral values ; he was honest in his doings.

Back in the days I thought that the only way to end the series with a fitting message was to have the Baudelaires willingly kill Olaf. And sure enough, they think about it at the beginning of TE. I was quite angry when Handler got "the lazy option" and had a third party (Ishmael) kill Olaf instead, but the truth is that it has a whole another meaning. Ishmael has to kill Olaf because the children have to understand that, as unbelievable as it may sound, they are people WORSE than Olaf. That's why whenever I try to think about the sinistor duo's motives, I associate them with Ishmael ; it's the character in the books who resembles them the most.

[looneylad]

They're like Emperor Palpatine!

[Christmas Chief]

I think thedoctorwell really summed up the situation. The sinister duo symbolize the opposite side of the schism; they're regarded as the ultimate evil, but not just for themselves, for the entire side, which sets them apart from Olaf who, as thedoctorwell says, has thoughts only for himself.

[Dante]

It's getting late in my time zone, or I'd really like to construct a detailed response to thedoctororwell's post, but instead I'll have to settle for saying it's fantastic, and an excellent illumination of a trend which is actually rather too hidden in the books.

[Chipper Coathanger]

Plus, Olaf always is actually scared of them.
In the books, there's this sort of unspoken code when it comes to siblings feeling comfortable with each other, I think, and if Olaf was sibs with the duo, he wouldn't be so eager to please.

[vfds321s]

Jan 31, 2010 9:07:53 GMT -5 Tiago James Squalor said:

I don't think they are his siblings. They are judges of the city high court, and Olaf is an actor and a Count. If they were his siblings, wouldn't they have nobility titles of their own? Plus, no reference to their parents have been murdered with poison darts was made.

I previously assumed that them being Judges was a disguise due to being in the disguise list and their betrayal of Justice Strauss. But after discussions in another thread, I can see that it probably wasn't, and is more of power corrupts.

That said, how does having different professions disqualify them from being siblings.

[Uncle Algernon]

May 2, 2018 11:55:30 GMT -5 vfds321s said:

That said, how does having different professions disqualify them from being siblings.

I believe the idea is more that they're only mentioned as Judges — without any mention of their being noblemen, as they would presumably be were they Olaf's siblings.

Also, while I'm on this thread, I'll drop that it seems unlikely to me that the Man and Woman are even siblings in the first place, let alone with Olaf as their common brother. There's a mention of the "childhood home of the Man with a Beard but No Hair" at one point, as if it were something separate from the Woman's.

[Hermes]

As we are never told their names, we can't rule out their having noble titles: after all, Olaf's countship seems to be just a title, not a position with duties, so wouldn't be mentioned if he were appearing anonymously. But the 'childhood home' thing is persuasive.

As for 'judge' being a disguise, VFD seems to use the word 'disguise' rather loosely, to stand for any public identity which a volunteer lives under, even if they are really doing the relevant job; in Jacques' letter to Jerome he refers to 'duchess' as a disguise, although i's clear from many references that R really is a duchess.

[Dante]

Similarly, in Jacques's letter to Jerome he declares "I am not really a detective, my friend" (U.A. p. 122), indicating that Jacques publicly worked as a detective and knew Jerome in that capacity. Wouldn't it be satisfying if Olaf had stolen his Detective Dupin disguise from Jacques? (Unnecessary, because he has a presumably complete disguise kit, but satisfying nonetheless.)