Who died in the hotel fire?

[csc]

May 27, 2010 15:14:56 GMT -5 Christmas Chief said:

I like to think they all died, as the entire scene had a ring of finality to it and everyone dead just seems a conclusive (even if slightly pessimistic) ending.

Me too. I think it gives the whole thing close and wraps all that happened before an ending. Those we think had to pay for what they did, payed and those we like died with them. Afterall there is no good nor bad just chef's salads right?

[Dante]

Yes, and the cast themselves represent a salad of good and bad on their own, too, while being just the same mixture of good and bad inside. And the Hotel Denouement is the bowl that salad is mixed in, which, to continue the metaphor, slipped and shattered on the floor, and now there isn't a salad any more, just the memory of all those varied flavours, which we each desire and despise in our own way.

[csc]

Ooooh that's beautiful Dante ;D

[M David Steel]

I know it's been over three years, but why start a thread for this when there is one? so here's what I know or have reason to think on various characters who were in that hotel.

Mr.Poe - was killed by a harpoon sometime after

Mrs.Bass - arrested for bank robbery sometime after

Sir - too obsessed with the smell of hot wood so he stayed where he was

The sinsister duo - too clever to be killed in a fire!

denoument triplets - knew all the exit points

Geraldine Julienne - too busy shouting about headlines and ironically she probably was a headline because of that

Jerome Squalor left the hotel, trusting the baudelaires

Hugo collett and kevin - didnt think much of themselves or care about their futures

Nero - all he cared about was his violin, so he just went and got it and played it

Mr.Remora - too busy eating bananas me thinks

Charles - a man of common sense and consideration, he thought, why would they make that up?

Mr Lesko and Mrs murrow - went back to the village

Esme and Carmelita - died in the fire as implied

[Dante]

That's actually quite a good and quite a funny assessment. Bravo. I particularly like your explanation of Sir's fate.

[Hermes]

I'd go along with most of that. Where is it implied that Esme and Carmelita died, though? And is there a specific source for Mr Poe being killed by a harpoon?

[Dante]

TPP says that the Baudelaires, after TPP Chapter Thirteen, never argued with Esmé and Carmelita again - which doesn't necessarily imply that they died, but depending on what kind of future you envision for the Baudelaires, Esmé and Carmelita still being alive might be difficult for them to avoid. As for Mr. Poe, TPP also says something to the effect of "It was not Mr. Poe's destiny to be killed by a harpoon, or at least not on that particular occasion," which some people have interpreted as indicating that he will ultimately be killed by harpoon (I disagree, Snicket clearly doesn't know).

[Hermes]

Lemony certainly seems open to the possibility that Esme is still alive during TBL (unless, of course. 'E' is someone else; but something very drastic would have to happen to allow L to call that other person a villainess).

The Mr Poe thing is interesting. I agree that it means that Lemony doesn't know (as with so many things); perhaps L doesn't know if he is alive; perhaps he is definitely alive but L doesn't want to rule out his being killed by a harpoon in the future. Many of the characters appear, by name or more allusively, in the 'where are they now?' passage, which shows that Lemony doesn't know about them; interestingly, Esme, Carmelita and Mr Poe are three who don't. (Another is Hal, who definitely survived in my view.) I had supposed that Mr Poe was definitely dead, since the last we hear of him he is refusing to leave his post, but this seems to call that into doubt.

[M David Steel]

oh yes, hal, would he be able to escape? he couldnt move very fast and bad eyesight, unless someone helped him

[Dante]

His bad eyesight means that he wouldn't be so disadvantaged by being blindfolded.

[Hermes]

Do we know where Hal was when the fire started?

The reason I think Hal survived is because of the passage in which Lemony says someone is making a terrible curry for him. I take it that this is Hal, who has become Lemony's informant for this part of the story (and quite possibly is also now running the underwater archive, which we know does still exist). However, I have never been able to convince anyone of this.

[friendofvfd]

I know it's been another three years since the last post, but Hermes I just saw the post you wrote much earlier on your idea on who the bellboy and girl were, if they weren't the Snow Scouts. Who do you think they were?

[vfds321s]

My thoughts:

Who survived:


Sinister Duo: It's uncommon for the ultimate villains to die in the most pathetic way possible, especially alongside other people. Either they, like Palpatine and Snoke, would have a special death that only happens to them or they would simply disappear from the story when they are no longer needed in it. As is the case of the sinister duo. Since Olaf is the villain that the story focuses on the most, they probably survived but don't need to be in the story any longer.


Frank & Ernest: They own the hotel. Only idiocy would prevent them from surviving, and if Dewy didn't die, he would probably escape the fire too.


Mrs. Bass: She was arrested for bank robbery which is the cause of the closure of Prufrock Prep, which is still going during book 12. If Nero perished, perhaps the principal (assuming Nero is the principal and him calling himself vice principal is a case of delusional superiority) would keep the place running until the arrest.

Sir: Seriously, survived possibly years of smoking so much that his own face is covered but not a building set on fire? Yeah no.

Carmelita Spats: The worst thing she did was be a brat and a bully. Killing her off in the fire is too extreme a punishment for that. (Maybe Esme too)



Who died:


Mr. Poe: Need I say more

Justice Strauss: Yes the Baudelaire's not seeing her again does not exactly mean she died. But her fate is the most heartbreaking in the book and more talked of. I'm sure Lemony did that for a purpose.


Not sure about everyone else

[Uncle Algernon]

Ever since I first considered the question I have held the not-entirely-serious but extremely appealing theory that the Sinister Duo was un-duoed in the fire. The Woman With Hair But No Beard made it out fine, but the Man With A Beard But No Hair really should have known better than to keep his Beard considering his line of work. Long beard, a spark, roasted bad guy. I think you can figure it out.

I like this idea because on the one hand, it'd be uncharacteristically happy for ASoUE for the Sinister Duo to be foiled altogether, yet on the other, "they slipped away with not a scrap and went on to commit other miscellaneous crimes as usual" isn't much of a way for two of the series' scariest villains to bow out of the tale at its climax. Hence I split my bets by literally halving the Duo.

Also, insofar as fanfic material goes, this is a great reason for a vengeful WWHBNB to act as the Baudelaires' new archenemy post-Olaf, if you want.

[Foxy]

I want to say everyone, but I thought the children, Count Olaf, and Justice Strauss could see people escaping from the roof. I think I would categorize this by floor. Anyone in the lobby definitely got out. You would have to be a fool to have been in the lobby and not escaped. People on floors 2-4 maybe got out, especially if Frank or Ernest called either fire department. They would have helped evacuate the building when they arrived on sight. I think anyone on the 5-9 floors would have had a difficult time getting out before the fire spread that high, and I really doubt Justice Strauss survived since she was on the roof.

Of course, a question would be "What authorities were guarding the door?" If they were noble, they would help people exit the hotel. If they were sinister, which I feel is likely considering the duo was relying on them, they would try to keep guests trapped in the hotel.