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Post by Charlie on Oct 30, 2012 2:35:25 GMT -5
How did I not notice this. Of course, it makes so much sense! I was wondering why that was so familiar. Do we think he could be Nero?
EDIT: Oh and Dante, I think that your theory is most plausible
Reason for Editing: I had something to add
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Oct 30, 2012 4:26:28 GMT -5
But another possibility has struck me - suppose it's a VFD tradition that one should begin one's apprenticeship by 'escaping' from one's parents, just as when first recruited one is 'taken', even though in fact one's parents have given permission in advance. So this is the normal rendezvous, and Theodora thinks she is there to 'rescue' him from his parents in the traditional manner (which would explain the ladder); but two chaperones have taken the place of his parents and are trying to actually stop the rendezvous taking place. That's a good thought! But I also like Dante's theory. I don't think Stew IS Nero, but I also wondered why I didn't notice this before. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but an interesting one.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Oct 30, 2012 4:30:20 GMT -5
I don't think Stew IS Nero, but I also wondered why I didn't notice this before. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but an interesting one. I love your idea!
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Post by Charlie on Oct 30, 2012 4:53:06 GMT -5
But another possibility has struck me - suppose it's a VFD tradition that one should begin one's apprenticeship by 'escaping' from one's parents, just as when first recruited one is 'taken', even though in fact one's parents have given permission in advance. So this is the normal rendezvous, and Theodora thinks she is there to 'rescue' him from his parents in the traditional manner (which would explain the ladder); but two chaperones have taken the place of his parents and are trying to actually stop the rendezvous taking place. To be honest, I really like this theory. It fits with what we know of VFD, and also seems like something Handler would dream up. I also like it just from a narrative perspective =D. I don't think Stew IS Nero, but I also wondered why I didn't notice this before. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but an interesting one. Yeah, neither do I. I mean, he could be a friend of Nero, or be his brother or something. I mean the link to Nero is surely intended. An interesting one indeed.
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Post by Hermes on Oct 30, 2012 8:37:33 GMT -5
Dante: Everything you say makes sense, but it doesn't explain why the chaperones were calling themselves Lemony's parents. They clearly weren't deceiving Lemony, and they don't seem to have been deceiving VFD at large either. But they do deceive Theodora. I think my theory can explain this: they were trying to upset the rendezvous for the reasons you give, but they were doing so by infiltrating themselves in the place of his parents at the traditional 'escape'. (Perhaps they told him his real parents couldn't make it. His real parents are, after all, themselves members of VFD as far as we can tell. Perhaps, indeed, the chaperones are relations of his - his aunt F and her husband, for instance.) This also explains why Theodora, despite thinking they were his parents, nevertheless helps him to 'escape' from them.
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Post by The Secretary on Oct 30, 2012 9:15:06 GMT -5
Let's remember that Lemony is still a child and a 12 year old sitting alone in a train station is bound to cause attention of some kind. So he needed some kind of actors as parental units or guardians. This doesn't answer anything as to why his tea was drugged and the like but it may help to explain why he needed false parents in the first place in a public location.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Oct 30, 2012 10:24:37 GMT -5
I when to school via train on my own at the age of 11, so....
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Oct 30, 2012 10:36:18 GMT -5
In my country it is usual for a ten-year old on an airplane. But for a train, I'm not so sure.
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Post by Kit's tits kick ticks on Oct 30, 2012 10:39:13 GMT -5
Many children go to school by train. But not with a suitcase, except in countries where there are many boarding schools. But I think this is not the reason for the false parents being with him.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Oct 30, 2012 10:40:03 GMT -5
Many children go to school by train. But not with a suitcase, except in countries where there are many boarding schools. But I think this is not the reason for the false parents being with him. Good reason, Anks.
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Post by Dante on Oct 30, 2012 10:44:59 GMT -5
I thought it was fairly obvious that the sending-off was meant to look entirely innocuous to random onlookers. That Theodora took it for what it was is a sign of her usual ineptitude and inability to read people.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Oct 30, 2012 10:46:51 GMT -5
I thought it was fairly obvious that the sending-off was meant to look entirely innocuous to random onlookers. That Theodora took it for what it was is a sign of her usual ineptitude and inability to read people. Heloooooo? Theodora?
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Post by Hermes on Oct 30, 2012 11:02:10 GMT -5
Let's remember that Lemony is still a child and a 12 year old sitting alone in a train station is bound to cause attention of some kind. So he needed some kind of actors as parental units or guardians. This doesn't answer anything as to why his tea was drugged and the like but it may help to explain why he needed false parents in the first place in a public location. Well, as others have said, this is very variable between places and cultures, and of course times. Since Snicketland is nowhere and nowhen, who can say? The Baudelaires seem to have gone around on their own quite a lot without anyone worrying much, and that was twenty or so years later. But even granting that he needed guardians, it's a question why his real parents didn't do it, and also why those who were in charge of him pretended to be his parents. (And why, up to a point, he went along with it - he calls the woman 'mother'. ) I did wonder if they might have been, though not his actual parents, guardians who had been looking after him for some time; but that doesn't fit Hector's calling them simply 'two other chaperones'. Let me try and put it another way. If Lemony was already in their custody, there was no real reason to bring him to the rendezvous at all - his just not turning up would be less noticeable than his turning up, being drugged and getting carried away. If on the other hand they had just met him, why did he go along with the pretence? When they said 'we are your parents', why not just say 'no you aren't' and walk away? I thought it was fairly obvious that the sending-off was meant to look entirely innocuous to random onlookers. That Theodora took it for what it was is a sign of her usual ineptitude and inability to read people. So Theodora is meant simply to meet Lemony, perhaps to tell him there has been a change of plan, but jumps to the conclusion that he is being kidnapped - which, by pure coincidence, happens to be true - and concocts an escape plan? Yes, that sounds quite like Theodora. That also implies, I suppose, that she didn't know about the ladder, and expected him to be able to jump up to the window, or something, which again fits her. On the other hand, she comes over as quite effective in this scene - she spots the drugging, which Lemony doesn't, makes off with the teacup unobserved, and manages to pass him a message without the 'parents' noticing.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Oct 30, 2012 13:06:28 GMT -5
So Theodora is meant simply to meet Lemony, perhaps to tell him there has been a change of plan, but jumps to the conclusion that he is being kidnapped - which, by pure coincidence, happens to be true - and concocts an escape plan? Yes, that sounds quite like Theodora. That also implies, I suppose, that she didn't know about the ladder, and expected him to be able to jump up to the window, or something, which again fits her. On the other hand, she comes over as quite effective in this scene - she spots the drugging, which Lemony doesn't, makes off with the teacup unobserved, and manages to pass him a message without the 'parents' noticing. She also tosses a coin to a waitress without anyone but Lemony noticing. (We never learn the significance of this, but the waitress still has the coin in her hand when Lemony asks her where he can locate the restroom, so it's clearly important.)
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Post by Charlie on Oct 31, 2012 2:48:39 GMT -5
It's interesting to me that although seeming so adequate in the first chapter (s), she seems so inept in the rest of the book. She manages to spot that the tea is poisoned, and steal it without detection, but she cannot come up with a simple lie about why she and Snicket are at the Mallahan lighthouse. Also, as far as we know, Theodora never once enters the library, something that seems odd for an agent of VFD. I like the theory that the two chaperones were in fact somehow related to him, I think it fits rather snugly. Also good work to someone (Sherry Ann?) for discovering the reason for tea needing to be "As bitter as wormwood, and as sharp as a double edged sword". This must be a common type of drugging in VFD, and this is probably what makes them all so careful like this. Might this have something to do with the Sugar Bowl (Yes, I know. I managed to bring up the bane of every 667er's life. Sorry)
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