|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 3, 2012 17:36:29 GMT -5
(I'd maybe substitute "complete" for "thorough," though; it seems somebody will always be uncovering a new reference or another.) You're right, the book is bound to have references nobody picked up on, or maybe noone ever will. I'll just change it to "Compiled." Edit: Okay, now that I have had a little time to digest what I've read, here are some thoughts/responses on the plot of the book: reviews seemed to indicate laughter would catch you unaware every five pages, but I only found myself smiling occasionally. Yes, I think a reviewer not much accustomed to Snicket's universe may even find humour just in the character's names and in the general "kookiness." But I did laugh pretty hard at the moment of theft where Theodora and Lemony argue through the use of signals and their meanings become more and more elaborate and specific until Lemony signals her what the "S" stands for, which killed me. But another possibility has struck me - suppose it's a VFD tradition that one should begin one's apprenticeship by 'escaping' from one's parents, just as when first recruited one is 'taken', even though in fact one's parents have given permission in advance. So this is the normal rendezvous, and Theodora thinks she is there to 'rescue' him from his parents in the traditional manner (which would explain the ladder); but two chaperones have taken the place of his parents and are trying to actually stop the rendezvous taking place. Yes! I had the same thought, and it's a very reasonable possibility out of the many options one can speculate over the meaning of this odd scenario. She also tosses a coin to a waitress without anyone but Lemony noticing. (We never learn the significance of this, but the waitress still has the coin in her hand when Lemony asks her where he can locate the restroom, so it's clearly important.) This is also why the theory of the whole chaperone 'rescuing' the apprentice from his fake parents gig being just another VFD test seems legit to me. On the other hand, she comes over as quite effective in this scene - she spots the drugging, which Lemony doesn't, makes off with the teacup unobserved, and manages to pass him a message without the 'parents' noticing. Yeah I remember thinking her being actually very good at what she does--much better than Lemony--and it being the reason why she was so strict. That line about repetition being not only repetetive but redundant seemed out of character to me until she soon revealed herself to be rather inept and ignorant. That also made me kinda think if Theodora is just pretending to be inept in order to make it harder for Lemony to prove his skills as an apprentice, but by the time the book has ended (and because of Lemony's narration in which he still seems to find her inept) I wasn't sure about that anymore. I think the new series shows a more polished but also more limited technique. ASOUE was painted in more colours (literally, consider its covers vs this one's) and observed fewer generic conventions, so while Handler says it was spin-off Gothic novel to the new series' spin-off noir, I don't think that's quite fair as a summary of ASOUE. For me the late, good ASOUE novels (parts of 8 and 9 onwards) are still ahead. I also really liked the notes to the Bad Beginning Rare Edition and wish he'd bring out more, though I know by now he won't... Part of me wholeheartedly agrees, but by the end of the first book I've grown to appreciate the new series for what it is, which is something pretty different to ASoUE.
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Nov 6, 2012 8:48:46 GMT -5
Terry Craig, your reference guide might make a good Dastardly Document. Consider PMing me to talk details. (I'm busy catching up at the moment.)
|
|
|
Post by thedoctororwell on Nov 6, 2012 15:13:21 GMT -5
@terry Craig & Dante : if it's possible, could we add the reference to Boris Vian in the list ? We do know for certain that Daniel Handler enjoys this author, so I think we have a pretty convincing case about the mechanical system being a reference to Froth on the Daydream.
|
|
Q.R.V.
Formidable Foreman
Better paranoid than dead.
Posts: 149
Likes: 20
|
Post by Q.R.V. on Nov 6, 2012 23:40:38 GMT -5
A possible addition to Terry Craig's compilation: Bellamy Station and Bellamy Books, page 20. This is probably the same literary reference as that of Jonah and Sadie Bellamy in The End, which, since the siblings are in conjunction with Erewhon (Samuel Butler's utopian novel Erewhon), has been hypothesized as Edward Bellemy, author of the utopian science fiction novel Looking Backward.
|
|
|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 7, 2012 10:49:06 GMT -5
Thank you, thedoctororwell and Q.R.V., I've added the two references to the Compiled Guide (and credited you, of course). I notified Dante and we shall see if it gets used for the Dastardly Documents.
I'm also convinced of the Boris Vian connection, not only for reasons like him being a French modernist and dabbling in noir fiction, but also because apparently he wrote a short story called "Blues for a Black Cat" (yet another possible reference!) and was a jazz-player who worked as a liaison for Duke Ellington! (I've included both of these facts in the Guide as well) Also, it's cool that he wrote "I Spit on Your Graves," the movie adaptation of which I've seen and very much like (definitely not for the faint-hearted though).
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Nov 7, 2012 10:55:14 GMT -5
It is done.
|
|
|
Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Nov 7, 2012 11:11:38 GMT -5
Thanks, Dante, I'm glad to see all of the work has payed off! And once again all of the 667ers have proved themselves to be "a few sad [as in Snicket-loving] obsessives obsessing along."
|
|
|
Post by Charlie on Nov 8, 2012 1:44:47 GMT -5
And once again all of the 667ers have proved themselves to be "a few sad [as in Snicket-loving] obsessives obsessing along." Sad, a word which here means, loving the work of Lemony Snicket
|
|
alexandre
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
|
Post by alexandre on Nov 11, 2012 6:24:36 GMT -5
Hello there I've been quite absent for some time, and then the book came out, and I thought I'd come back as soon as I've finished my reading of the first volume of this new Serie. Well ... I'm a bit disappointed, I can't help but feeling this is a sort of fanfiction ; it's good but not Great with a big G (no offense to people who do fanfictions, and as is the case here, good ones, on top of that ^^) There are good elements, but when I closed the book, I didn't feel satisfied, and I'm not very tempted to read the rest (I will of course) The illustrations don't work for me, I really preferred Brett's ones :/ So yeah ... Kinda bummed. I haven't had the opportunity to read everybody's thoughts and theories on it yet, but I'll do that as quick as I finish this post. One thing I noticed (and i'm sure I'm not the only one) is the presence of the Bombinating Beast in the middle of all the octopi, on the inside of the cover, and the presence of lightning bolts on the border of the cover, a bit like the symbols that decorated the ASOE books ... There ^^
|
|
|
Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 11, 2012 6:26:04 GMT -5
Hiyas Alexandre! But your prof pic is too big.
|
|
alexandre
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
|
Post by alexandre on Nov 11, 2012 6:57:55 GMT -5
Hyas to you Oops sorry ... I chose it in the list of avatars available on the forum, and was told that it wouldn't bother but it it's the case, I'll change it asap ! I'm not a frequent poster anyway ^^) Edit : er, if someone could help me, I've been trying to change my profile picture, but I can't "save" the changes, my avatar always stays the same .. ?
|
|
|
Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 11, 2012 7:05:11 GMT -5
Hyas to you Oops sorry ... I chose it in the list of avatars available on the forum, and was told that it wouldn't bother but it it's the case, I'll change it asap ! I'm not a frequent poster anyway ^^) Edit : er, if someone could help me, I've been trying to change my profile picture, but I can't "save" the changes, my avatar always stays the same .. ? Try again.
|
|
alexandre
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
|
Post by alexandre on Nov 11, 2012 7:36:49 GMT -5
Nope :/ I've tried a dozen times, 'I'm trying to put the "When did you last eat?" image (aka n° 3), and tried clicking on "Modify profile" or even leaving it the way it was but it just keeps coming back to my previous avatar .... *puzzled*
To everybody who made the literary references, thank you, that was very helpful, some I had linked directly but others were absolutely unknown to me. Also, "Flammarion" is a French publishing house, I doubt that it's what Handler was thinking of, when he chose that (especially since ASOUE is published under "Nathan" in France/Belgium)
|
|
|
Post by Dante on Nov 11, 2012 8:13:08 GMT -5
Hi alexandre. I'm sorry that you didn't like the book; perhaps you can say what irked you, and we can negotiate over this. As to your avatar problems, you'd be better off addressing them to Foreboding Feedback, but you might have better luck changing the dimension in Modify Profile to 100 x 100 and hitting the Save Changes button at the bottom.
|
|
alexandre
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 65
Likes: 6
|
Post by alexandre on Nov 11, 2012 10:18:35 GMT -5
Maybe it's the fact that I was awaiting it so eagerly. But I felt that every situation fell flat, even Dame being drowned, but I think that proves that it's merely subjective. I do find the BB plot intriguing, and I had some moments where I thought "Oh no he/she DIDNNNNN'T" and even moments where I laughed, I just wished there was something more, what I cannot tell.
But I'm pretty sure that I'll like the rest, DH must have a cool plot thought out for all this !
(Concerning my problem, I don't see any "Save" button ?)
|
|