Fiona Fanboy
Catastrophic Captain
Klaus' rival for the affections of Fiona Widdershins
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Post by Fiona Fanboy on Nov 26, 2012 22:55:13 GMT -5
This theory is exactly what it sounds like: Ellington isn't a real human. She's a creation of The Great Unknown. Alternately, she's a form The Great Unknown itself takes when luring in potential prey. Tying this in with the "The Bombinating Beast is The Great Unknown" theory mentioned elsewhere on this site produces the possibility that Lemony is basically associating with something that wants to kill him-& HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW IT.
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Post by Charlie on Nov 27, 2012 0:24:54 GMT -5
I might support this theory if ASOUE had never been written, but with the complete lack of Sci-Fi aspects of it, I rather doubt that Handler would introduce this as a plot direction now. Ellington does seem rather inhuman though, but ultimately I guess she has her motivation.
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Post by Dante on Nov 27, 2012 2:05:54 GMT -5
Lemony Snicket isn't writing pure fantasy fiction. He's writing noir. There's no narrative or generic precedent for this. And frankly, I think it'd be unsatisfying. Ellington is very human. She has human tastes and needs and understands human psychology very well. If you'd been saying that the tooth-using, literally slimy, and practically shape-shifting Hangfire was a monster, then we could talk, but Ellington? What's the rationale here - that it would be surprising? A good twist is one that makes sense in retrospect. This is a twist that makes no sense in any respect.
Ellington's favourite colour is black; she has black hair, black clothes, black nails, and green eyes. Thematically this associates her with both the Bombinating Beast and the sea or the Clusterous Forest - and therefore the Bombinating Beast again. But that doesn't make her a monster. It means there are certain metaphors we can link between them. We can look at them as being black as ink, and there are a couple of ways to read that. They're both dark, mysterious, elusive. Practically, it assists in being stealthy, even scurrilous. You might say that they're much written-on - there are many attempts to interpret them, not necessarily successful. It also makes us question their morality. Are they psychologically dark as well? Ink is, I also think, metonymically the blood of octopi in Stain'd - are we meant to view them as soaked in the blood of the innocent victims around them? There are avenues to explore here. This is a detective series. We've been given clues to pick up on, synthesise, deduce from. Make an effort.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Nov 27, 2012 18:10:21 GMT -5
From a literary perspective, Ellington does recall some aspects of the Great Unknown: she's mysterious, deceptive, surrounded by darkness, and, perhaps most prominently, has eyebrows shaped like question marks. But beyond this figurative level, is there really any evidence suggesting a literal connection between a girl and a frightening, mostly abstract being that appears directly only twice in ASOUE? Not only would this theory inflict an injustice to Ellington's character; it would undermine the concepts symbolized by the Great Unknown. The idea that one can never solve all the mysteries in the world is a prevailing theme in ASOUE, and certainly much discussion has been wrung of it. Besides the fact WCTBATH is not science fiction or fantasy, the sort of connection described is a bit too strong, I feel, for an ASOUE parallel. It would mean reintroducing the GU to the ATWQ universe, which has problematic implications I need not enumerate.
Now, I wouldn't disregard the notion that Ellington could still pose as a threat to Lemony - and indeed she has, if you consider her double theft threatening. But she has motives separate to Lemony's, and steals the Bombinating Beast not to hurt others but to help herself.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 28, 2012 11:07:23 GMT -5
From a literary perspective, Ellington does recall some aspects of the Great Unknown: she's mysterious, deceptive, surrounded by darkness, and, perhaps most prominently, has eyebrows shaped like question marks. But beyond this figurative level, is there really any evidence suggesting a literal connection between a girl and a frightening, mostly abstract being that appears directly only twice in ASOUE? Not only would this theory inflict an injustice to Ellington's character; it would undermine the concepts symbolized by the Great Unknown. The idea that one can never solve all the mysteries in the world is a prevailing theme in ASOUE, and certainly much discussion has been wrung of it. Besides the fact WCTBATH is not science fiction or fantasy, the sort of connection described is a bit too strong, I feel, for an ASOUE parallel. It would mean reintroducing the GU to the ATWQ universe, which has problematic implications I need not enumerate. Now, I wouldn't disregard the notion that Ellington could still pose as a threat to Lemony - and indeed she has, if you consider her double theft threatening. But she has motives separate to Lemony's, and steals the Bombinating Beast not to hurt others but to help herself. I second your opinion.
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 28, 2012 11:22:00 GMT -5
Next - Is Moxie the Sugar Bowl?
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Post by Dante on Nov 28, 2012 12:35:36 GMT -5
Yes. It's made of bone china.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 28, 2012 23:37:57 GMT -5
Next - Is Moxie the Sugar Bowl? LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLLOLLOLOLOOLOLOOLOLOL.OLOLOLLOLOOLOLLOLOOLOLOLOL!
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Post by Charlie on Nov 29, 2012 1:02:10 GMT -5
Next - Is Moxie the Sugar Bowl? LOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLLOLLOLOLOOLOLOOLOLOL.OLOLOLLOLOOLOLLOLOOLOLOLOL! I second that motion
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Post by Isadora Is a Door on Nov 29, 2012 3:49:43 GMT -5
Soon to be followed by Theodora - The Snicket File?
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Nov 29, 2012 3:57:44 GMT -5
Soon to be followed by Theodora - The Snicket File?
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Fiona Fanboy
Catastrophic Captain
Klaus' rival for the affections of Fiona Widdershins
Posts: 91
Likes: 2
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Post by Fiona Fanboy on Nov 29, 2012 19:35:48 GMT -5
You know what? Those other theories you guys posted in my thread are just plain ridiculous. I was just going on Ellington's mysteriousness, her sneakiness, her ambiguously threatening nature, her tendency to disappear when it's inconvenient for those she interacts with, & her suspiciously question mark-shaped eyebrows.
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Post by Dante on Nov 30, 2012 2:40:23 GMT -5
Well, the other theories proposed are just jokes. It's not that you've misread Ellington as a character; you've got a good grasp of how she's presented and how she works. We just think you've misread the kind of story that's being written here, and there aren't any grounds to think it's a fantasy story.
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Fiona Fanboy
Catastrophic Captain
Klaus' rival for the affections of Fiona Widdershins
Posts: 91
Likes: 2
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Post by Fiona Fanboy on Nov 30, 2012 22:45:15 GMT -5
Well, the involvement of a sea monster (and a hint at it appearing in book 2, what with the end of All the Wrong Questions, Question 1: Who Could That Be At This Hour? involving Hector taking a balloon to investigate mysterious at-sea happenings that could possibly be caused by The Bombinating Beast) & connections made between The Bombinating Beast & The Great Unknown (Mentions of The Bombinating Beast being claimed to be still seen by sailors by its question-mark silhouette-remember, Lemony Snicket said All the Wrong Questions will elaborate on The Great Unknown) strongly suggest a possible fantasy turn.
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Post by Dante on Dec 1, 2012 3:36:36 GMT -5
In a noir series, in a setting which has had fourteen books featuring zero magic. You're really prepared to step over this line and believe in something completely inconsistent with the territory? If you believe this, I'm afraid you'll have to believe anything.
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