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Post by bandit on Sept 11, 2013 18:52:53 GMT -5
From the way that they keep calling the Knights' pen-house a "tower," I had assumed that it was some kind of factory, and not an actual home. I wonder at what age one is allowed to drive in Snicketland? In any case she is several years older than Lemony. Most likely 16, which is only three years older than Lemony and also the driving age in the US. I like to think that it's foreshadowing, because the car is already a literal dilemma in the story.
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Post by Hermes on Sept 12, 2013 11:22:43 GMT -5
Bandit: Is it the same in every state, though? But yes, sixteen seems quite likely.
Also, the possibility that O might be Theodora's previous apprentice has been discussed before, and seems quite attractive. (Another possibility discussed at one point is that she is his mother.) It's not clear, though, supposing that he is, if this would be revealed in the course of the series, or left as something for ASOUE fans to work out.
Chapter 3. More on Theodora getting words wrong: 'fortuitous' doesn't really mean the same as 'fortunate', though people use it that way so often that perhaps it does by now. But her use of 'Kismet' is certainly wrong.
Theodora seems to have a special interest in the number six - what might that signify?
'Twelve wholesome grains combined in a strict series' continues the Schoenberg joke, since that is what Schoenberg did with the twelve notes of the chromatic scale.
Why does Polly Partial think everything looks French?
Although 'Why would Cleo take a taxi when she has a nice car?' is a sensible question at first sight, there seems to be a fairly straightforward answer - her car has a puncture (probably caused by Dr Flammarion, which suggests she was indeed trying to escape). Yet Lemony seems to remain puzzled by it. Also, why does he not ask Pip and Squeak if they took her?
So, this is what I find puzzling. Cleo takes her car and goes, it seems, just a few blocks down the street, where she leaves it, visiting the grocers and a diner where she is well known - apparently her boyfriend works there. But no one seems to have bothered to check any of this before reporting her missing - she leaves the house, and immediately it's assumed she has disappeared, and an investigator is called in.
Why does everyone, even her parents, call her 'Miss Knight'? Could it be that Cleo isn't really her first name after all?
I'm particularly struck by Lemony's interest in food in this book. It was a theme in ASOUE, of course, but not quite such a dominating one, I feel.
Does Moxie cut hair?
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Post by Teleram on Sept 12, 2013 19:01:37 GMT -5
Why does Polly Partial think everything looks French?
By that, she probably meant that everything looks strange when you stop to to consider it. Unless you were talking abut another quote.
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Post by Christmas Chief on Sept 13, 2013 15:36:31 GMT -5
This preview just became available on ATWQ's Facebook: Who could that be at this hour? How is Little Brown involved? Why aren't you more worried? How are we going to get out of here? What is going on in there? Who has the secret formula? Where is the missing girl? When did you see her last? Could you repeat the question?
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Post by Dante on Sept 13, 2013 16:05:42 GMT -5
I was wondering if they were going to do anything for Friday the 13th. Although I also wonder if Amazon and Google Play had an exclusivity deal lasting a few days. Of course, the preview doesn't appear to be on LemonySnicketLibrary.com, so wherever you wish to read the preview, you need an account with a third party to do so... officially, at least.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 14, 2013 1:20:34 GMT -5
So I've gotten around to read the three chapters, and, as per usual, wrote out all the references I could find. I think two have been already found, but there are a couple more. Chapter 2:p.18 "...I could not quite place the smell. It was sweet but wrong, like an evil bunch of flowers." Of course, a reference to Charles Baudelaire's 'Les Fleurs du Mal,' which has been referenced numerous times in ASoUE. p.19 - Zada & Zora So this one might be a stretch, but there's a female Croatian folk singer from the 60s/70s called Zora Dubljevic, who's made a song called " Zumbul Zada," which features some prominent accordion playing. I may be well off the mark here, but maybe it's a song Daniel Handler, an accordion player, has learned to play sometime, or just grown to like. p.25 - "Colophon Clinic" Colophony, or rosin, is a translucent brittle substance used especially in varnishes and inks (primarily printing ink), and is also used for pharmaceutical reasons. p.27 - "Schoenberg Cereal" A reference to composer Arnold Schoenberg, who invented the Twelve-tone Technique, which laid the foundation for Serialism composition (there being a pun on "cereal"/"serial"). Later in Chapter 3, it says the cereal's label reads "TWELVE WHOLESOME GRAINS COMBINED IN A STRICT SEQUENCE." This can be see as a continuation of musical references following references to Duke Ellington and jazz, starting in the previous book. p.28 - "Ingrid Nummet Knight" It appears that "nummet" is an obscure word (not unlike other words used in ATWQ, like "clusterous" or "bombinating"), that is defined as a "light meal or luncheon" ( here, a website using many published dictionaries as sources, and here, a website claiming the word being of a Devon dialect). Alternatively "nummet" could also be the plural form of the Finnish word, "nummi," which translates as "moor." This could also make sense, as the name Ingrid has Norse origins. Chapter 3:In the chapter illustration there's a sign in the background that says 'Last Chance,' which may or may not be a reference to Snicket's 'The Hostile Hospital.'“A guy named Johnny takes the wrong train and ends up in Constantinople in 1453. This guy’s books are always good.” Reference to 'The Trolley to Yesterday,' a novel from 1989, and the sixth volume in a series of children's gothic horror mystery novels by John Bellairs and Brad Strickland (this particular one written by the former), revolving around a character called Johnny Dixon. Possible plot parallels between this novel and WDYSHL is that 'Trolley' starts out with Johnny worrying about his friend, Professor Childermass, because he's been acting "very weird" (like the Knight parents), and it involves a "talking statue" (like the Bombinating Beast?). Also, Edward Gorey, who's been a major influence on ASoUE, provided covers and frontispieces for all but three of Bellairs's 15 children's works. "“Where are we going, Snicket?” Pip asked me. “To the lighthouse,” I said, which reminded me of a book I’d been meaning to read." - Reference to the 1927 novel 'To The Lighthouse' by Virginia Woolf, who has previously been referenced by Snicket in 'The Reptile Room.'
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Post by Dante on Sept 14, 2013 2:04:07 GMT -5
Bang-up job on the allusions, Terry Craig, although for the sake of thoroughness I'd like to add a couple of points. p.25 - "Colophon Clinic" Colophony, or rosin, is a translucent brittle substance used especially in varnishes and inks (primarily printing ink), and is also used for pharmaceutical reasons. More simply, the proprietors of Ink Inc. all have the initials I.N.K., for which the business is doubly named. I wonder if Ignatius didn't anticipate Cleo taking over the business when she was older.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 14, 2013 3:16:00 GMT -5
p.25 - "Colophon Clinic" Colophony, or rosin, is a translucent brittle substance used especially in varnishes and inks (primarily printing ink), and is also used for pharmaceutical reasons. That was the first thing that came up for me as well, and it seemed legit with its connection to books, but once I saw the other possible origin, the latter seemed much more appropriate, not only with its pharmaceutical connection, but it being an ingredient of printing ink as well. Of course, it may well be possible that both were an influence on the name, so an additional mention of publishing colophons does seem appropriate. More simply, the proprietors of Ink Inc. all have the initials I.N.K., for which the business is doubly named. I wonder if Ignatius didn't anticipate Cleo taking over the business when she was older. Oh wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that it was an acronym for ink! That's a nice detail, and in turn makes the name itself seem of less importance concerning references.
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Post by Tryina Denouement on Sept 14, 2013 11:17:35 GMT -5
Is Hangfire involved? How? Could he know Dr. Flammarion?
Is Hangfire Dr. Flammarion? ... but it now seems as if the Tryina-like figure on the cover is not him but Cleo... The silhouette at the lab, you mean?
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Post by thedoctororwell on Sept 17, 2013 18:11:18 GMT -5
Thank you, Terry Craig, for your amazing spot-the-reference skills. Another to add to the list : The incoherent speech patterns of Doretta and Ignatius are highly reminiscent of Eugène Ionesco's The Bald Soprano. The play features a stereotypical rich english couple sitting at home whose small talk quickly devolve into complete nonsense. Their sentences are right on their own, but they don't follow logically, as if the lines weren't put in the right order or the author had forgotten to write entire parts of the conversation. The couple's conversation is frequently interrupted by their housemaid, the only character in the play who seems able to speak any sense (which ties in with Zora's and Zada's role in the household). Interestingly, the play also features a subplot involving a couple mistaking their child with a doppelganger/lookalike whose only difference is that her eyes are mismatched the other way around. The Bald Soprano is a classic of absurdist literature which Handler probably has heard about, given that Asoue tends towards absurdism on its own.
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Post by Dante on Sept 18, 2013 1:49:50 GMT -5
Sounds like a work worth watching, thedoctororwell; I'd quite like to see that. I wish there was more to connect it to ?2, as it sounds just perfect.
As an aside, the spoiler rule lapses now, as I think the preview should have circulated among all the usual circles by this time. It was more a matter of courtesy than anything else. Now we just have a month to wait for the remaining ten chapters... Anyone care to take a guess on what might transpire within them?
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Post by Hermes on Sept 18, 2013 15:55:05 GMT -5
More simply, the proprietors of Ink Inc. all have the initials I.N.K., for which the business is doubly named. I wonder if Ignatius didn't anticipate Cleo taking over the business when she was older. Are you sure you aren't giving anything away here, Dante? Have we actually been told Ignatius' middle name? ... but it now seems as if the Tryina-like figure on the cover is not him but Cleo... The silhouette at the lab, you mean? Yes - though now you have changed your avatar you don't look like her any more. (Though I remember you mentioning servants at one point. Are you perhaps Cleo Knight?)
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Post by Dante on Sept 18, 2013 16:24:04 GMT -5
Are you sure you aren't giving anything away here, Dante? Have we actually been told Ignatius' middle name? Ssh, don't point out where I secretly leak things like I did throughout my preview review! Although I actually can't remember what Ignatius's middle name is... but I thought Ingrid Nummet Knight was a sufficient data point. I'm surprisingly excited to be on equal terms in terms of illustrations with everyone else now, though; the ARC only went up this far in illustrative terms as well, although it had placeholders showing where the rest would be. I really can't wait to see the rest. And not entirely tangentially, this may be a good time to mention that the preview chapters released here are, as far as I can tell, identical to the ones in the advance copy. Which is what I expected, but... maybe I should have suggested that a certain plot point be mentioned here. Well, we all make mistakes. Yes, we certainly do. I found the information I was looking for elsewhere, so this is no longer an issue.
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Post by Poe's Coats Host Toast on Sept 18, 2013 23:13:27 GMT -5
Thank you, Terry Craig, for your amazing spot-the-reference skills. Another to add to the list : The incoherent speech patterns of Doretta and Ignatius are highly reminiscent of Eugène Ionesco's The Bald Soprano. The play features a stereotypical rich english couple sitting at home whose small talk quickly devolve into complete nonsense. Their sentences are right on their own, but they don't follow logically, as if the lines weren't put in the right order or the author had forgotten to write entire parts of the conversation. The couple's conversation is frequently interrupted by their housemaid, the only character in the play who seems able to speak any sense (which ties in with Zora's and Zada's role in the household). Interestingly, the play also features a subplot involving a couple mistaking their child with a doppelganger/lookalike whose only difference is that her eyes are mismatched the other way around. The Bald Soprano is a classic of absurdist literature which Handler probably has heard about, given that Asoue tends towards absurdism on its own. I haven't heard about this play, but I'm intrigued. It does sound like it parallels some aspects of WDYSH and maybe like something Handler would reference, but either way, it sounds really cool, so I'm putting it on my list of books to read!
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Post by Hermes on Sept 21, 2013 16:08:18 GMT -5
. Now we just have a month to wait for the remaining ten chapters... Anyone care to take a guess on what might transpire within them? Well, it's hard to say. I guess the immediate question is what has happened to Cleo. My guess is that she has indeed run away rather than been kidnapped, since the puncture suggests Dr Flammarion was trying to stop her leaving. Though I suppose she may have run away and then been kidnapped. OK, I will venture two predictions. The first is a matter of form rather than content: a character from ASOUE will appear in Chapter 13. The second is more speculative: Kit, determined to continue her plan with a new associate, will team up with Theodora's former apprentice. Ssh, don't point out where I secretly leak things like I did throughout my preview review! Well, anything you leaked in the preview review you were presumably meant to leak.
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