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Post by mortinson51 on Jun 29, 2016 1:28:37 GMT -5
I know I'm late to the party but I just finished ATWQ. Ellington Feint being one of the mysterious characters in the book. While reading A line from the book really stuck out to me.
"Ellington feint was a line in my mind running right down the middle of my life, deprecating the formal training of my childhood and the territory of the rest of my days. She was an axis, and at that moment, and for many moments afterwards, my entire life revolved around her." Page160, WITNDFAON
I had a theory while reading that she would become Duchess of Winnipeg. This of course is not true since they mention her already existing at this time. I was just wondering if anyone smarter then me has found any findings of Ellington being in ASOUE. Since Lemony himself said that he has worked with her in the future. I don't know if this is just talking about her helping Kit to escape at the end or more.
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Post by Dante on Jun 29, 2016 3:35:30 GMT -5
Does Lemony say that he worked with her in the future? The line you quote is more about how she serves as a dividing line between his childhood and his adulthood; how she changed his life forever, which doesn't necessarily require her to be a part of his life forever. Not least because she will despise him forever...
One theory that fitted some things but was never likely was that she might end up being Beatrice, but that's definitely been disprove now. More promising is a moment in TBL, in one of the younger Beatrice's letters; she speculates that Lemony will think her letter is from some villainess or other, and he writes "E?" in the margin. At the time, it was almost certainly intended to refer to Esmé, but Ellington is retroactively a good fit.
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Post by Hermes on Jun 29, 2016 9:44:36 GMT -5
I had a theory which I was hoping to use in fanfic, but I doubt I ever will (I would have to finish my current story first, which will take several years at the present rate), so I will give it here:
Ellington Feint is Madam di Lustro. (Who, you will remember, has a true identity which L. has to discover.)
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Post by gliquey on Jun 29, 2016 11:19:27 GMT -5
I had assumed that Lemony never saw Ellington again after walking off into the Clusterous Forest at the end of ?4. That quote is a lovely one, but I think it just serves to emphasise how important Ellington was to Lemony and to how deeply the events at Stain'd-by-the-Sea affected him. His life felt different afterwards both because of the changes he went through while he knew her, and because he missed her so much. I had a theory which I was hoping to use in fanfic, but I doubt I ever will (I would have to finish my current story first, which will take several years at the present rate), so I will give it here: Ellington Feint is Madam di Lustro. (Who, you will remember, has a true identity which L. has to discover.) I nearly did a spit-take. That's a wonderful idea. |
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Post by mortinson51 on Jun 29, 2016 11:33:24 GMT -5
I had a theory which I was hoping to use in fanfic, but I doubt I ever will (I would have to finish my current story first, which will take several years at the present rate), so I will give it here: Ellington Feint is Madam di Lustro. (Who, you will remember, has a true identity which L. has to discover.) That's very cool I really like it. The last line of the quote where lemony says "for many moments afterwards, my entire life revolved around her." This happens half way in the book so I wouldn't consider that when he walks away at the end was the last time he sees her. I think a more realistic scenario is that kit and her did some VFD quests together. And lemony would hear about it form his sister. I had heard about the Beatrice theory which would have been nice but there is a line mentioning she is working with Olaf on a mission. I would have liked if this was true. Side bar: the one thing I didn't like about ATWQ was the lack of Beatrice since she was such an important part in ASOUE and lemony's life |
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Post by Dante on Jun 29, 2016 15:00:22 GMT -5
The absence of Beatrice is rather awkward in light of ASoUE. One has to presume that much of that period of Lemony's life follows ATWQ, though perhaps Ellington prepared him for a lifetime of falling in love with entirely the wrong people.
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Post by lorelai on Jul 1, 2016 13:11:18 GMT -5
There are theories that Ellington became either Lemony's "kind editor"--never quite forgiving him but willing to help him with this project from a distance--or that she became Mrs. Widdershins. With that second theory, it would mean she still made bad choices after ATWQ (which I can see if she never had therapy) and married Fernald and Fiona's father only to divorce/lose him and re-marry Widdershins and then die mysteriously. Either way she's on the fringes of Lemony's life, but not part of it, which is probably the best thing for both of them if you have them cross paths post ATWQ. Depending on what mood I'm in I like both these theories, and will probably use at least one of them in a fic. The absence of Beatrice is rather awkward in light of ASoUE. One has to presume that much of that period of Lemony's life follows ATWQ, though perhaps Ellington prepared him for a lifetime of falling in love with entirely the wrong people. Interesting possible take, though personally I never saw her absence as awkward, just that the strength of her presence hadn't been established in his life yet. I've noticed people either like Beatrice and try to unravel her reasons/actions, are indifferent to her, or deplore her. It will be interesting if she ever makes an appearance. |
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Post by mortinson51 on Jul 1, 2016 15:09:47 GMT -5
The kind editor theory is an interesting one. Just had a thought that Moxie could be another candidate for my kind editor.
I don't know if I like the Mrs. Widdershins thoery it doesn't make sense to me knowing Ellingtons personality.
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Post by lorelai on Jul 1, 2016 15:31:10 GMT -5
Moxie has been suggested too.
Just curious, what in the MRS. Widdershins theory doesn't make sense based on Ellington's personality? If it's that she'd join VFD, I can see that, though in the end it was Lemony she hated, not the organization, and given her childhood that could explain Widdershins's decision to not tell his stepchildren things.
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Post by mortinson51 on Jul 1, 2016 15:51:31 GMT -5
Just curious, what in the MRS. Widdershins theory doesn't make sense based on Ellington's personality? If it's that she'd join VFD, I can see that, though in the end it was Lemony she hated, not the organization, and given her childhood that could explain Widdershins's decision to not tell his stepchildren things. I don't know why but for me Ellington doesn't seem like the type who would settle down and have 3 kids. I always saw her as another version of lemony. She is a tragic character and seems very restless to me. I don't see her ending up in one place for good. I can definitely see her becoming part of VFD but I don't see her as truly settling down and finding happiness. |
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Post by A comet crashing into Earth on Jul 1, 2016 17:03:16 GMT -5
While I don't feel that Ellington's character fits that of Mrs. Widdershins, either, there's a bunch of reasons why personality wouldn't disqualify E from being Mrs. W. Firstly, we don't know very much about her personality; second, many years pass between the two series, and people do change. Indeed, a change from a restless, adventurous character to a more settled-down type is something which I can see in the Averse (possibly because I imagine something similar having happened to Beatrice, either after marrying Bertrand or giving birth to Violet). That kind of 'loss of spirit' could indeed be portrayed as something lamentable, even if Ellington's restlessness is by no means a positive thing, and as we know, lamentabilities thrive in the Averse. Third, we last saw Ellington after a massive psychological trauma, and the effects must surely have had an effect on her personality. We don't know in what ways she changes in order to tackle her issues, so again, her personality may have changed a lot since her appearance in ATWQ.
That said, although I like the idea of fitting E into the ASOUE chronology, there's already another, conflicting theory that I'm too fond of to accept this: Namely, that Mrs. Widdershins is actually Miranda Caliban (and I'm sure it's possible for both to be true, but I think Snicket would've put more emphasis on Miranda's character if she were someone who'd once been such an important figure in his life.
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Post by gliquey on Jul 1, 2016 17:27:42 GMT -5
I don't know why but for me Ellington doesn't seem like the type who would settle down and have 3 kids. I always saw her as another version of lemony. She is a tragic character and seems very restless to me. I don't see her ending up in one place for good. I can definitely see her becoming part of VFD but I don't see her as truly settling down and finding happiness. +1. People can change, especially in regards to plans about children, but if Ellington has changed so much that she marries Captain Widdershins and has three children with him, I wouldn't get any satisfaction from knowing that she reappears in ASOUE - I think the point of coming up with these theories is to find a character from ASOUE that seems to have a similar personality to the Ellington we see in ATWQ. I like the Madame DiLustro theory because Madame DiLustro is a complete mystery to readers, just like Ellington; it is possible that Ellington could be Mrs. Widdershins, but I just don't find it a satisfying thought. The absence of Beatrice is rather awkward in light of ASoUE. One has to presume that much of that period of Lemony's life follows ATWQ, though perhaps Ellington prepared him for a lifetime of falling in love with entirely the wrong people. Since you wrote this comment, Handler has responded to our interview questions and one of his answers addresses this topic: he said "I think that one can't really be sweethearts until one's early childhood has passed by." While Snicket might have known Beatrice prior to ATWQ (in fact, it's undeniable that he did), he seems not to have experienced any romantic feelings towards anyone until he met Ellington. |
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Post by lorelai on Jul 1, 2016 21:10:10 GMT -5
Interesting points/personal objections to the Mrs. Widdershins theory. To play Devel's advocate--just for the sake of it, because overall I don't fit Ellington intoASOUE aside from her effect on Lemony and the Madame theory is growing on me--living and raising two children in a submarine is hardly an unadventurous life, and can easily hint at a restless nature. Though let's not forget, no matter what theory you go with, Ellington wasn't actually restless by choice. She lived a very quiet, simple life with a man who read her stories and took care of local wildlife. It's only in searching for her father that she becomes restless, and unlike Lemony (who although not fully content in the series, has people to share in his activities and interests that help ease any loneliness, and his siblings under normal circumstances) Ellington shows no enjoyment of the life she's having to live. We don't know what her feelings are by the end, but for the majority of the series, her overall goal is to regain that comfort, security, and loving parent.
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Post by Dante on Jul 2, 2016 1:51:50 GMT -5
This is a very good point. Ellington lived a quiet and sedentary life for many years, and throughout ATWQ her overriding goal is to return to that way of life, to set back the clock to an eternal childhood. Ellington as a shadowy trickster is not her natural state, though it might be her true one.
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Post by mortinson51 on Jul 2, 2016 8:30:24 GMT -5
Ok I have to admit that I can see the parallels now. Of course people change if you look at Lemont himself. He is a different character then who he was in ATWQ
It is an interesting concept having to fit he characters into ASOUE. A far more likely hood is the the Baudelaire children never crossed paths with anyone from stain'd by the sea. The world is a big one with a lot of stories. It doesn't mean that Ellington didn't pop up in Snicket's life for good or bad.
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