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Post by Skelly Craig on Dec 7, 2016 12:08:13 GMT -5
Specifically, what I'm suggesting about the scenes where Lemony is alone is that they look diegetic. Snicket is having to strike a match for light; he is having to peek cautiously out from beneath a manhole. These steps would be unnecessary if he was merely strolling about a film set as he pleased while all the actors were at home; compare to the actual teaser, where overhead lights magically turn on purely for his benefit. From this I propose that the world is real; therefore, if nobody else in the world acknowledges Snicket, it is Snicket who isn't wholly there, not the world. We are not seeing a real Snicket in a reconstructed world, but a reconstructed Snicket in a real world; fake-Snicket-real-world, for short. Actually, considering he's always dressed in the same clean suit, it does not look to me that Lemony is diegetic. Why would he wear a suit when going to a sewer? It'd be inappropriate for the situation and he would probably get it dirty, which it doesn't seem to be when we see him. Neither did it look like he was peeking "cautiously" out from the manhole. This and the striking a match thing seem to be just made for effect. A narrator trying to reel you into his story, and not him actually being there. And wouldn't it be possible that nobody acknowledges Lemony's presence because everybody else is an actor/extra trying not to break the fourth wall? I admit, that both ways are equally possible, but to me it still seems more like Lemony is real and the world is a subjective representation based on his narration and research. To complicate things a bit further, though, it is also clear that these same scenes (along with, I think, one present in the script fragments) depict a real Snicket engaged in real investigations in a real world; therefore he is actually only partly reconstructed, perhaps a narratorial construct projected onto the literal Snicket who is having to undertake certain actions for his own reasons. The narration is reconstructed; the actions are genuine and historical. Real-Snicket-real-world-fake-narration. Whether or not this is possible to distinguish from real-Snicket-fake-world or fake-Snicket-real-world is up for debate; worse, it also doesn't necessarily preclude both Snicket and the world being real but on different levels of reality - real1-Snicket-real2-world, perhaps. We would have to actually see the show itself to have a chance of knowing for sure, but if they aren't making it as complicated as we are, even then it might not be clear. Such is the quagmire posed by this approach to Lemony. Let us recall that, in the books, Lemony may be "unreliable" in the sense that he is a character with his own personality and weaknesses, but the books and narration are purely literal; Lemony does not engage in them as anything other than a literal character documenting literal events in a world which he is literally a part of, with only the extraordinary success of his research method being particularly exaggerated. I'm not sure I understand everything in your second paragraph, but you might be onto something with there being different levels of reality; both Lemony is real and telling the events, and the depicted events are real too, just not in the same timeline. Basically, the events are a flashback, but presented with partially overlapping elements from the present (i.e. whenever Lemony is in the story he's telling) for nothing but effect. This would be a plausible and simple explanation. Although I would wager that they'll just leave this whole aspect open for interpretation, as there wouldn't be much of a point for them to try to explain it. |
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Post by mortinson51 on Dec 7, 2016 12:50:23 GMT -5
The whole Lemony thing I take it as being very similar to house of cards where Frank the main character will turn to the camera and talk to the audience. This doesn't make the world where frank exists not real it's just a way of representing his inner thoughts. This is used to the same effect here as Lemony being a Greek chorus that narates the story but exists in and out side of the real world. When he talks to us he is our narrator and when he interacts with characters in the world he is really there one doesn't dieprove the other. I feel like we are over thinking this. they are using the same troupe as in the books but had to figure out how to translate it to screen. The movie they used Lemony as a script writer so does that mean the characters in there weren't real. Lemony is a real character but also our guide Into this world. For the Jacqueline thoery I have been thinking that for a while now I think it could be either kit or the Dutchess of Whennipeg. VFD members use fake names all the time so I think her reveal as a fake name isn't to far fetched. It will be good to flesh out some of the backstory from these characters. I see why she is added becaus the children don't have a VFD guide in The early books so even if she is a new character I'm not too mad, I'm excited to see what she brings to the table EDIT: This doesn't prove anything but this could mean there is more to Jacquelint then meets the eye |
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Post by ryantrimble457 on Dec 7, 2016 13:22:53 GMT -5
Fun thing--the IMDB page. Tons of neat character names. Dunno how reliable, but fun to note the series will feature a Sweet Old Lady, a News Anchor, a Chorus, and Bruce the Iguana Keeper (wonder if they'll bring this same dude back). www.imdb.com/title/tt4834206/fullcredits/?ref_=m_tt_cl_sc |
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Lotusira
Reptile Researcher
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Post by Lotusira on Dec 7, 2016 22:55:40 GMT -5
This new trailer got me so hyped up!! On a side note: I just finished reading the Penultimate Peril again and I was wondering, what if Netflix actually does an alternate version where the kids actually get into the taxi with Lemony, and in turn, this gives us more Netflix seasons with stories we've never even read before, with plots that lead to more answers pertaining to the sugar bowl, or us getting to know those two villains more from the mortmain mountains in depth like we got to know olaf, or even tying up loose ends from ATWQ, and maybe even a quaqmire reunion someday...but then again, Count Olaf and Kit wouldn't have died. Well, not just yet at least. So much potential for a story line like this. Lemony could actually be part of the story!!! The possibilities are endless...sorry if this was ever brought up before. Just a thought. Imagine the new book titles (well in this case episodes. Daniel Handler could get so creative here).
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montrac4
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 70
Likes: 45
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Post by montrac4 on Dec 7, 2016 23:00:29 GMT -5
This new trailer got me so hyped up!! On a side note: I just finished reading the Penultimate Peril again and I was wondering, what if Netflix actually does an alternate version where the kids actually get into the taxi with Lemony, and in turn, this gives us more Netflix seasons with stories we've never even read before, with plots that lead to more answers pertaining to the sugar bowl, or us getting to know those two villains more from the mortmain mountains in depth like we got to know olaf, or even tying up loose ends from ATWQ, and maybe even a quaqmire reunion someday...but then again, Count Olaf and Kit wouldn't have died. Well, not just yet at least. So much potential for a story line like this. Lemony could actually be part of the story!!! The possibilities are endless...sorry if this was ever brought up before. Just a thought. Imagine the new book titles (well in this case episodes. Daniel Handler could get so creative here). Hmm interesting. I don't know if they could drag it out for much longer, maybe a few more episodes but I don't think it's likely. Although it's an interesting idea. I too recently relistened to the audiobooks and it did leave me wanting more, so I wouldn't necessarily oppose it. |
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Post by Mr. Dent on Dec 7, 2016 23:05:21 GMT -5
This new trailer got me so hyped up!! On a side note: I just finished reading the Penultimate Peril again and I was wondering, what if Netflix actually does an alternate version where the kids actually get into the taxi with Lemony, and in turn, this gives us more Netflix seasons with stories we've never even read before, with plots that lead to more answers pertaining to the sugar bowl, or us getting to know those two villains more from the mortmain mountains in depth like we got to know olaf, or even tying up loose ends from ATWQ, and maybe even a quaqmire reunion someday...but then again, Count Olaf and Kit wouldn't have died. Well, not just yet at least. So much potential for a story line like this. Lemony could actually be part of the story!!! The possibilities are endless...sorry if this was ever brought up before. Just a thought. Imagine the new book titles (well in this case episodes. Daniel Handler could get so creative here). Hmm, I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to more story, so long as it still ends with The End. |
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Post by theplague on Dec 7, 2016 23:12:24 GMT -5
The imdv page very interesting, and while I know that imdb isn't completely reliable, some of those seem so minor and specific that I don't really see a reason for someone to fake them.
About the TV anchor, have the books ever mentioned television? It would be neat to see how television could factor into the story on a more visual medium, I could see it possibly being used to tie in to the lies and gossip being spread in the later books.
Also, this might have been a rumor, but wasn't James R Baylor supposed to join the cast? I don't know who he could be at this point, I think we've seen almost every character.
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Post by theplague on Dec 7, 2016 23:15:12 GMT -5
This new trailer got me so hyped up!! On a side note: I just finished reading the Penultimate Peril again and I was wondering, what if Netflix actually does an alternate version where the kids actually get into the taxi with Lemony, and in turn, this gives us more Netflix seasons with stories we've never even read before, with plots that lead to more answers pertaining to the sugar bowl, or us getting to know those two villains more from the mortmain mountains in depth like we got to know olaf, or even tying up loose ends from ATWQ, and maybe even a quaqmire reunion someday...but then again, Count Olaf and Kit wouldn't have died. Well, not just yet at least. So much potential for a story line like this. Lemony could actually be part of the story!!! The possibilities are endless...sorry if this was ever brought up before. Just a thought. Imagine the new book titles (well in this case episodes. Daniel Handler could get so creative here). I definitely wouldn't mind more stories somewhere else, but I feel like The Penultimate Peril is the perfect near end to the series. I definitely like the idea of some aspects of All The Wrong Questions appearing in the series, that is if they do it in a way that makes sense for new viewers. |
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Post by Strangely on Dec 7, 2016 23:26:22 GMT -5
I would rather they add more stories after TE instead of shoehorning them between TPP and TE.
Actually, maybe they could adapt the Beatrice Letters for the final two episodes or as a movie. That could be a nice send off for the series. I do think TBL works better as a finale for the series than TE. Of course much would have to be added to flesh out the plot, but perhaps they could make a more fulfilling resolution for us.
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Post by mortinson51 on Dec 7, 2016 23:34:41 GMT -5
I don't think they need to change the ending. I think they are already expanding the world for instance in TCC we may see the gift shop owner and her statue with something hidden in it. I think the books were focused on what all the Children saw, where the series will be the whole world. For instance Olaf could have got on the prospero in the books but we never saw it because the children weren't part of that story. I would love to tie the world up together I feel like we could get some great ATWQ reference in later seasons. The great unkown being the bombinating beast? I would also love to hear from characters from the books grown up. Or even a throw away line about staind' by the sea.
I know I always say it but if this is successful I would love a 4th season adaptiting ATWQ.[
Also I think that TBL would work really well in context they could have all the lemony scenes in the final season/last couple episodes be TBL adaptions and then that way Snicket narrator gets an ending as well as.
Another thing I'm thinking they are going to do I'm season 1is have a plot with narrator Snicket and weave him into the actual story like being he taxi driver. so the Beatrice letters in later season would feel off and could work really well.
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Post by Teleram on Dec 8, 2016 0:35:31 GMT -5
Gotta say, I LOVED that beautiful shot of the beach at 0:52.
Also, I'm a helluva lot more excited for all this now that we've seen more footage from TMM. I'm more excited for those episodes more than anything else tbh
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Post by mizbizsav on Dec 8, 2016 1:13:32 GMT -5
The imdv page very interesting, and while I know that imdb isn't completely reliable, some of those seem so minor and specific that I don't really see a reason for someone to fake them. About the TV anchor, have the books ever mentioned television? It would be neat to see how television could factor into the story on a more visual medium, I could see it possibly being used to tie in to the lies and gossip being spread in the later books. Also, this might have been a rumor, but wasn't James R Baylor supposed to join the cast? I don't know who he could be at this point, I think we've seen almost every character. Imagine someone in the show is watching the Netflix series.  |
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Post by Esmé's meme is meh on Dec 8, 2016 1:31:31 GMT -5
Most of the TV adaptations include new characters, plots or twists to make it interesting to those who read/know the original material. I wouldn't be surprised if Jacquelyn is Kit in disguise just to catch our interest and make us theorize about it.
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Gregor Anwhistle
Formidable Foreman
Volatile Fungus Deporter and Ichnologist
Posts: 114
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Post by Gregor Anwhistle on Dec 8, 2016 1:41:40 GMT -5
About the TV anchor, have the books ever mentioned television? It would be neat to see how television could factor into the story on a more visual medium, I could see it possibly being used to tie in to the lies and gossip being spread in the later books. There's a reference to TV in THH p.144: "..Klaus and Sunny separated themselves from the volunteers and walked carefully toward the closet, holding the balloon in front of both their faces as best they could. Luckily, the two doctors were too busy talking about a sporting event they had watched on television to notice two accused murderers sneaking down the hallway of their hospital...."So yeah, technically TV exists in their world, but it never plays a part in the narrative. Something interesting for the Netflix series to explore, as you say. |
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Post by Dante on Dec 8, 2016 3:25:39 GMT -5
I think that three seasons will be enough for ASoUE without them needing to drag it out; better to tell a story with a set beginning, middle and end rather than risk extending it until people get bored and jaded. Three seasons is a good length anyway - better than they'd have available for ATWQ, which they might have a difficult time getting even two seasons out of. So I don't think an extension to the story is necessary, beyond the expanded-world approach they're already taking to the existing narrative, which gives us so much more than we knew from the books without interfering with the basic elements of the original storyline. I'm also hoping that TBL will be handled in flashforwards throughout The End or the third season. Gotta say, I LOVED that beautiful shot of the beach at 0:52. Also, I'm a helluva lot more excited for all this now that we've seen more footage from TMM. I'm more excited for those episodes more than anything else tbh I took out the Netflix logo for you! drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx4aRwxGz-mhSHJabWZ4ZFNkMk0/view?usp=sharing(I say for you, but I was already using it for my desktop  . But I thought you might want it too  ) Definitely looks like set-up for the Briny Beach revisit in TGG to me. The marked stone in particular is perfectly-suited. Fantastic attention to detail. |
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. But I thought you might want it too 
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