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Post by Dante on Sept 27, 2016 7:58:07 GMT -5
I have an idea about Quigley, but I just wanted to post for now that if there was so much foreshadowing about other details, why weren't Lemony's other deaths mentioned directly anywhere? I was hoping you guys had more details. But you guys went off topic. A certain amount of the backstory of the series has to be assembled by the reader. As the above discussion indicates, that can be difficult when the backstory is in flux, but the point is no less true. Lemony having been reported dead at some point before Violet's birth is a fact we can infer with reasonable certainty; the obituary in the U.A. is not really relevant outside of the U.A. and is more of an amusing detail intended to emphasise various points about the series - the unreliability of the press, the uncertainties surrounding Lemony's life history, things like that. It seems unlikely that a report of Lemony's death could have prompted the assassination of Olaf's parents, as Lemony has hinted that he himself was present on the occasion (TPP p. 18, though p. 126 may also be relevant). I would also suggest that just because you thought something was the right thing to do does not mean that you thought it was a good thing to do.
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Post by Hermes on Sept 27, 2016 10:12:49 GMT -5
Likely 'deaths' of Lemony:
1. Before Violet's birth: probably proved wrong before Klaus was born (possibly by Beatrice getting the telegram from him), or else K would be named Lemony.
2. During the events of ASOUE, as shown by Kit in The End saying 'I've lost my brothers'.
3. Later, when he has already famous as the author of ASOUE, as reported in chapter 1 of TUA.
and, more speculatively:
4. During Violet's infancy, which would account for her memory of her parents, dressed in black, singing 'The Little Snicket Lad'.
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Post by lorelai on Oct 1, 2016 22:19:16 GMT -5
As for the Snicket File, that's one of the most confusing things in the story anyway. It seems to have metamorphosed at some point from a file about a Snicket to a file by the Snickets: in addition, we are told both that the Snickets were working on it together, obviously quite recently if it mentions the Baudelaire fire, and that they have not seen each other for a very long time. I don't know how to reconcile this. But it doesn't seem to me impossible that L added this note to the file, and J did not see it again before it was deposited in the Library of Records. I think it's very plausible that the Snickets sent updates to wherever the file was being kept, while off doing work for VFD--and in Lemony's case, hiding. This would mean that they were all working on it, separately and at the same time, but wouldn't have to come into contact with each other to alter their research. That would even explain why the file covers such a broad range of topics; no one's been able to sit down and talk about what should and shouldn't be in it, and as long as the information comes from a Snicket, no one's going to set it aside.
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Post by Dante on Oct 2, 2016 2:22:40 GMT -5
The real wonder is how they managed to fit it all into just thirteen pages, with the last having so very little on it. Very small type, perhaps, or numerous unmentioned appendices.
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Post by lorelai on Oct 4, 2016 0:25:35 GMT -5
I could believe that last idea. There also could be more than one file, but the current edition is always called the Snicket file; that would explain Ms. Dressing's line in FU13 about adding a note to the Snicket file.
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Post by lsandthebooks on Oct 17, 2016 15:23:40 GMT -5
So, late reply! Can't believe it's been almost a month but I've been really busy. So, from pages 156-157 from The Slippery Slope: "I think the survivor is here," the scout said quietly, and removed his mask to reveal his face at last. "I'm Quigley Quagmire," he said, "I survived the fire that destroyed my home, and I was hoping to find my brother and sister." So from page 157: It is one of the peculiar truths of life that people often say things that they know full well are ridiculous. And then he goes into examples of ridiculous things people say. I think this author like to be subtly sarcastic! So, he's saying that Quigley wasn't the srvivor from the Snicket File, and he knew he was lying to the Baudelaires since there have been other theories about Quigley being dishonest, I think this one fits in. And, Quigley knows so much about VFD that the other orphans like the Quagmires didn't know, until they did research on their own...So Quigley may know quite a lot, and lied to the Bauds because...I have no idea why. But I think it centers on the Snicket File too.
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Post by Dante on Oct 17, 2016 16:24:49 GMT -5
Lemony discussing people openly saying ridiculous things was more in reference to the Baudelaires telling Quigley to his face that he was dead, though... much though I would like to believe otherwise. The general theory on the Quagmires' relationship with V.F.D., though, is that all three were probably aware of the organisation before meeting the Baudelaires, with Duncan and Isadora having perhaps been quietly recruited by the Prufrock librarian and keeping it a secret until they discovered the organisation was relevant to the Baudelaires' and Olaf's history; Quigley himself spent some time living with Jacques Snicket and probably had a great deal revealed to him during that period.
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TheAsh
Formidable Foreman
Posts: 175
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Post by TheAsh on Feb 5, 2020 7:06:18 GMT -5
The books themselves don't explicitly say that Lemony's been reported dead multiple times, but it's a theory that holds water. Although I think there is a bit where he talks about reports of one's death happening frequently... Yes, here it is. Chapter Fourteen, page 10: "There are others who say that they perished at sea, although rumors of one's death crop up so often, and are so often revealed to be untrue." I think Lemony is making a joke here: that the reason why the Baudelaires thought he died was due to a shipwreck (or more accurately, a bathyscaphe wreck.) It seems likely to me that the one who told the Baudelaires was Ishmael, who is heavily implied to have ended up on the island due to a bathyscaphe wreck:And we know that Lemony is involved with the bathyscaphe-wreck: Although not explicitly stated, I think that Beatrice thought Lemony dead due to Ishmael telling them so.
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Post by Dante on Feb 5, 2020 17:14:53 GMT -5
That's a reasonable connection to draw, though multiple bathyscaphes may exist; and furthermore, by the time it came to naming their firstborn, I think the Baudelaire parents had probably learnt not to trust Ishmael. But it may well have been the intention nonetheless. The idea previously mooted was that copies of The Daily Punctilio featuring one of Snicket's mistaken obituaries might have washed up on the island during the Baudelaire parents' stay (and there is precedent for this); or else, that they already believed that he was dead before their arrival.
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