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Post by veryferociousdrama on Mar 18, 2019 2:50:23 GMT -5
Start posting notes etc whenever you like.
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Post by Foxy on Mar 18, 2019 7:43:11 GMT -5
Personal Notes:
The stock market appears to be plummeting in the opening picture. Perhaps the story takes place in October of 1929?
Why are there old stacks of newspapers along the sidewalk? (1)
Are any of the jobs described in the lumber mill actually how a lumber mill works? (3)
Day after dreary day went by – perhaps the origins of the song “Dreary, Dreary.” (5)
Phil thought Dr. Orwell was a man. (6)
It really does not matter about Charles being kind to the children. He wasn’t helpful at all. (10)
“Klaus usually looked interested in the world around him… and now [his eyes] were wide as if he had been watching TV instead.” (11)
I love how the chapter on sunglasses is only one page long. (11)
If Sunny had said “lucky” or “inordinate” in her speech, would Klaus have understood? (12)
I love the reversal of Klaus and Violet’s roles in this book almost as much as I love Sunny valiantly sword-fighting. (12)
Sir actually saves Sunny, albeit inadvertently. (12)
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THE MISERABLE MILL
CHARACTERS:
a family of little chipmunks (mentioned) (1): lived in a hollow tree
Emily (mentioned) (1): doesn’t eat her blueberry pancakes
Emily’s mother (mentioned) (1): doesn’t make her daughter eat her blueberry pancakes
Gary (mentioned) (1): baseball player
Larry (mentioned) (1): Gary’s best friend. Probably not a waiter
Violet Baudelaire (1)
Klaus Baudelaire (1)
Sunny Baudelaire (1)
Mr. Poe (1): receives promotion to Vice President in Charge of Coins
Count Olaf/Shirley
Sir (1): Mr. Wuz – Mr. Qui – Mr. Bek – Mr. Duy – Mr. Sho – Mr. Gek
Phil (2)
An assortment of people, men and women, all of whom looked tired and all of whom were covered in sawdust (2): some of these people are Sir’s cousins (10)
Foreman Firstein (mentioned) (2)
Foreman Flacutono/bald man (2)
Charles (4)
The Paltryville mayor (mentioned) (4)
Tatiana (7): the friend who made the sculpture
Dr. Georgina Orwell (8)
Egyptian king (mentioned) (8)
Chinese merchant (mentioned) (8)
a man who lived in England (mentioned) (8)
VIOLET’S RESEARCH:
reading Advanced Ocular Science (11)
KLAUS’S INVENTION:
A debarker and gum (12)
SUNNY’S BITING:
sword-fighting Dr. Orwell (12)
THE LIBRARY:
Charles’ library at the mill
SNICKET SECRETS:
He once saw a sign that said “Beware” in letters made of dead monkeys. (1)
Beatrice wrote him a two-hundred-page book detailing why she could not marry him. This book arrived by carrier pigeons. (2)
He was possibly smuggled out of the country on a sailboat in exchange for giving a woman free tickets to an ice show. (4)
A policeman once tripped him while he was carrying a crystal ball belonging to e Gypsy fortune-teller. Olivia? (5)
A friend of his made a sculpture called Twisted, Cracked, and Hopelessly Broken. (5)
His chauffeur once told him he would feel better in the morning, but when he woke up they were still on a tiny island surrounded by man-eating crocodiles. Is this a reference to the island? Is there a reference to the island in every book?(7)
REFERENCES (real and made up):
The History of the Lucky Smells Lumbermill by Sir (4)
The Paltryville Constitution (4)
Advanced Ocular Science by Dr. Orwell (4)
Encyclopedia Hypnotica (8)
SNICKETISMS:
the one about the first sentence of a book (1)
the one about planning a vacation and using a guidebook (1)
the one about receiving bad news through written word (2)
the one about how you never know (2)
the one about an alligator chewing off an optimist’s arm (2)
the one about how you spend your morning (3)
the one about appearance mattering (3)
the one about looking at yourself in the mirror (4)
the one about a fair deal (4)
the one about doctors not necessarily being your friends (6)
the one about “quiet as mice/quiet as mimes” (6)
the one about a miserable experience feeling better in the morning (7)
the one about self-esteem (9)
the one about it being helpful to have someone there to help you solve a difficult problem (11)
BAUDELAIRE FAMILY HISTORY:
One time the Baudelaires had opened a lemonade stand in front of their house (3)
They had a library with all kinds of books. (4)
Klaus’s mouth has always quivered when he sleeps, even when he was a tiny baby. (6)
Their mother used to brush small things out of their hair all the time. (7)
Violet again remembers her parents telling her to look after her younger siblings. (7)
There was a huge dictionary in their parents’ library, and Klaus used it to look up difficult words. (11)
Klaus read a book on different kinds of fish, and his mother to him fishing at a nearby lake, where they caught no fish. (12)
SNICKET DICTIONARY:
Askew: tilted to one side from leaning over logs the entire morning (4)
Backbreaking: so difficult and tiring that it fell like the orphans’ backs were breaking, even though they actually weren’t (5)
Bootless: useless and worthless (10)
Cacophony: the sound of two metal pots being banged together by a nasty foreman standing in the doorway holding no breakfast at all (3)
Cahoots: working with, in order to capture the Baudelaire fortune (9)
Daunting: full of incredibly difficult words (11)
Fatal accident: one that kills somebody (12)
Grotesque: twisted, tangled, stained and gory (7)
Gum up the works: something that stops the progress of something else (12)
Hair’s breadth: a teeny-tiny measurement (12)
Ineffectual: unable to get Klaus unhypnotized (11)
Lion’s share: the biggest part (11)
Low self-esteem: describes children who do not think much of themselves (9)
Met her demise: stepped into the path of the sawing machine (13)
Nefarious: Baudelaire-hating (8)
Ocular: related to the eye (4)
Optimist: a person, such as Phil, who thinks hopeful and pleasant thoughts about nearly everything.
Ostentatiously: really, really (7)
Pathetic: depressing and containing no windows (2)
Quizzically: because he didn’t know that he caused the accident that hurt Phil’s leg (9)
Split hairs: aruge over something that’s not at all important (12)
Stylistic consistency: books that are similar from start to finish (11)
Unnerving: twisted, tangled, stained and gory (7)
SUNNY SPEECH:
Ballywot!: She’s Count Olaf in disguise! (9)
Batex: But we’re not laying eyes on one another! (4)
Becer!: (agreement) (6)
Bram!: And our last name is Baudelaire. (3)
Brewol: And I’ll go back to sleep. (11)
Casca: That’s not very reassuring. (1)
Chorn!: And his voice sounds nothing like Count Olaf’s (5)
Cigam!: Look at this note! (2)
Croif: It was lucky that I could defend us from Dr. Orwell’s sword, if I do say so myself. (13)
Deluny!: You’re not just a bad foreman-you’re an evil person! (12)
Derex!: If we can’t prevent him from going to Dr. Orwell, at least we can go with him! (7)
Dinel: (10)
Dolc!: And I could be a dentist! (5)
Egu!: (12)
Elund!: It certainly is perplexing. (5)
Eshan!: (7)
Fiti!: That nameplate doesn’t prove anything, of course! (9)
Garj!: (wondering what the word “endeavor” meant) (11)
Ghand!: But Klaus reads many complicated books! (1)
Gice!: Don’t hurt Charles! (12)
Grummle?: (7)
Guree: (agreement) (9)
Ha!: Ha! (8)
Hech!: But you didn’t keep your end of the deal, either! (13)
Heece: Beats me. I’m only a baby. (11)
Hmmm?: Hmmm? (11)
Kewtu!: (12)
Klaus!: Klaus! (6)
Libu: (doubt) (6)
Mazée!: We don’t have time to hear all these stories, Klaus! (8)
Molub!: We’re talking about the typed note that told us to go to work at the lumbermill! (4)
Nelnu!: (3)
Nojeemoo!: You appear to be back to normal. (7)
Oh toonoy!: (Oh no you can’t!) (12)
Palsh! (10)
Pelli!: But that doesn’t explain the eye-shaped building, or the cover of the book! (5)
Plemo!: Who works for Count Olaf! (13)
Popinsh!: Dr. Orwell hypnotized Klaus and caused that terrible accident, didn’t she? (9)
Roopish!: They’re not accidents! They’re the results of hypnotism! (9)
Rotup!: (5)
Skel: But I wonder what that word could be. (11)
Snevi!: (2)
Stintamcunu: (6)
Suski: I hope so, Phil. (6)
Tanco!: And babies shouldn’t even have gum, because they could choke on it! (3)
Tenpa: (agreement) (5)
Teruca?: What’s a foreman? (2)
Tuzmo: I don’t believe so. (8)
Ulo?: Will you have Dr. Orwell arrested? (10)
Varni: (agreement) (1)
Weleef!: But he was in disguise, as usual! (13)
Wiro: That’s true, but I’m still worried about Klaus. (7)
Wora: If someone had to me, that day at the beach, that before long I’d find myself using my four teeth to scrape the bark off trees, I would have said they were psychoneurotically disturbed. (4)
Wub: I hope so, too. (10)
Yash!: And if only Klaus weren’t hypnotized, then he could tell us what this sentence means. (11)
Yoryar!: (5)
GEOGRAPHY:
Camp Timbertops (1) (mentioned)
Finite Forest (1)
Paltryville (1)
Mulctuary Money Management (1) (mentioned)
Paltryville Station (1)
Lucky Smells Lumbermill (1)
a post office (1)
Dr. Orwell’s office (1)
Ahab Memorial Hospital (7): where Phil was taken after his leg was broken
FOODOLOGY:
casserole (2)
chewing gum (3)
pizza (4)
carrot, apple, beef enchilada (5): all foods Sunny loves
cookies (8): Shirley made them, so they probably are not very good/poison
omelettes (10)
raisins (10)
milkshake (13)
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Mar 18, 2019 8:30:30 GMT -5
Why are there old stacks of newspapers along the sidewalk? (1) They are archives of The Daily Punctilio, per TUA, but that doesn't explain why they are there. Maybe the newspaper just didn't have enough money to store them in an office, or else VFD members have put them there as a way to access information easily, though this seems odd considering how inaccurate the newspaper is. However, it does appear that it was under VFD control at one time, based on the number of members that worked there, so it's possible it wasn't always this way. With the Netflix series fresh in my mind, I'd actually forgotten none of the mill workers had ever met Dr Orwell before she hypnotises Klaus in the book. General NotesThis book seems to be the least popular among fans. I'd say it's my second least favourite after TBB. There are actually a lot of things I like about it: I think the way it starts to widen the story is really good, and I also like the way Violet has to research and Klaus has to invent. Dr Orwell is a fun character, and I enjoy that Olaf isn't the only villain here. What I don't like about the book is the setting. I know Paltryville is meant to be a dull and unpleasant place, but that makes it really unenjoyable to read about. The Baudelaires also don't have as much to do as in TRR or TWW. The Egmont and HarperCollins covers are very similar; they display the same scene painted slightly differently. I prefer the colours in the Egmont edition, which uses slightly warmer tones, but I prefer the HarperCollins spine cover. I like the Hypnotism! cover, but the only image I can find of it online is cropped at the bottom, so it's difficult to judge. This has got to be my favourite Beatrice dedication. It never fails to make me laugh. Chapter OneI like the passage about first sentences telling you what sort of story the book contains. I especially enjoy the fake book openings. 'They have not had a grand old time since their parents died in a terrible fire.' (p3) This sounds like Lemony isn't writing that long later. Where would Lemony have seen the dead monkey 'beware' sign? Helquist does a good job of illustrating what an eye-shaped building might look like, but it's hard to see how it could possibly look just like Olaf's tattoo, since this means it would have to display the VFD insignia, and I can't picture how a building could be physically shaped that way. |
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Post by Dante on Mar 18, 2019 17:14:21 GMT -5
I like the Hypnotism! cover, but the only image I can find of it online is cropped at the bottom, so it's difficult to judge. I had better rectify that, then. The thread where the cover was originally discovered is here, and the current version of the webpage it was retrieved from is here. As far as I know, no larger version of the cover image exists - in public, at least. For posterity's sake:  |
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Post by Foxy on Mar 19, 2019 6:44:15 GMT -5
Where would Lemony have seen the dead monkey 'beware' sign? My first thought is the island because maybe sometimes monkeys live on islands? Maybe the island went through a violent time. Or maybe he went to a kind of scary zoo. I like the Hypnotism! cover, but the only image I can find of it online is cropped at the bottom, so it's difficult to judge. I had better rectify that, then. The thread where the cover was originally discovered is here, and the current version of the webpage it was retrieved from is here. As far as I know, no larger version of the cover image exists - in public, at least. For posterity's sake: Wait, so there are other stories in these books with the alternate covers other than just the original ASOUE story? |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Mar 19, 2019 11:52:14 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the picture, Dante, I had seen the thread you linked to before, but when I tried to follow the link, it said the listing is no longer available (the second link in your post still leads to the image).
Chapter Two
The two-hundred page breakup note is really the first glimpse we get into Lemony and Beatrice's relationship.
'I wish I could tell them what know, as they walked across the courtyard, raising small clouds of dust with every step.' (p20) Shouldn't Lemony regret not helping the Baudelaires more, instead of just not telling them how bad things were going to be?
'"No one has knocked on this door," he said finally, "for fourteen years."' (p21) Phil's first interaction with the Baudelaires doesn't actually present him as being all that cheery.
So, Olaf evidently knew the Baudelaires would show up at the mill at least a week before they got there. Unless he was planning something else with Dr Orwell originally, and it was just a coincidence that the Bauds ended up in Paltryville at the same time.
Chapter Three
I love Lemony's bit about morning and how it affects the rest of your day. Is there no middle ground between a butler holding tea and toast and a foreman clanging two pans together?
The Baudelaires not realising Flacutono's true identity doesn't seem too bad on their part, considering it's been a while since they saw the bald man (although Violet did think he was the scariest out of Olaf's troupe in TWW) and he's obscured most of his face. However, the idea that he's suddenly replaced the previous foreman should be a tip-off. I think I actually did guess that he was one of Olaf's associates the first time I read this.
A free refill of iced tea is a really lame coupon.
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Post by Dante on Mar 19, 2019 12:26:00 GMT -5
Wait, so there are other stories in these books with the alternate covers other than just the original ASOUE story? Aye; Lemony Snicket's "What Shall I Do, Lemony Snicket?" advice column, Michael Kupperman's abortive comic serial The Spoily Brats, and late author Stephen Leacock's Q: A Psychic Pstory of the Psupernatural. The first installment also had some joke advertisements by Kupperman, and all three included a short line of text encoding the first three words of a hidden message which would never be completed. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Mar 20, 2019 8:54:39 GMT -5
Chapter Four
I know Handler originally only had a contract for four books, but at what point was that extended? There are a lot of things in this book that make me think he already knew he was going to be able to publish more while he was writing it, but the Baudelaires reflecting on how much their lives have changed since they first became orphans has a 'last book in the series' feel to it.
Can Sir understand Sunny?
'If someone offered to smuggle me out of the country in her sailboat, in exchange for free tickets to an ice show, that would be a fair deal.' (p53) It's hard to figure out when this would have occurred, but it could be a sign that Lemony's life is starting to go downhill. Also, this reminds me of Lemony's Prospero escape in TUA.
'"He had a very terrible childhood. Do you understand?"' (p57) Of course, having a terrible childhood isn't an excuse for being a terrible adult, but many characters in this series seem to think it is. This is developed a lot more later.
Chapter Five
'In the days that followed, the Baudelaire orphans had pits in their stomachs.' (p63) How long are they at the lumber-mill before Klaus breaks his glasses? The general sense I get from this chapter is that it's longer than the amount of time they stayed with their guardians in the previous books.
'After a few days of tearing the bark off the trees, the debarkers were put back in their corner, and the giant pincher machine was turned off.' (p65) This might be four or five days of just debarking.
'After a few days of sawing, Foreman Flacutono ordered Phil to start up the machine with the enormous ball of string inside.' (p66) Again, this might be another four or five days.
'Day after dreary day went by,' (p66) This could encompass an even longer period of time, maybe even enough to start the whole process over again. This is one of the best chances to stretch out the series, so I'm going to say they were at the mill for a month or so before Klaus got hypnotised. That would explain why the Baudelaires are so surprised to not have seen Olaf yet.
'there was no way any of the workers could afford beef jerky.' (p72) Couldn't they have pooled the coupons together, the way they do for Phil's hospital bill later? I guess thirty percent off is difficult to work with, because it would take four people to buy one packet of jerky, and then there would be some discount left over from the fourth person, but still.
'"Back to work! We have to finish tying the bundles today, so there's no time for chitchat!"' (p72) Okay, this sounds like they're still on the same stage of the process as described on page 66, and it seems like each stage only takes a few days, but there's probably enough ambiguity in the text to assume this is the second round of tying the Baudelaires have taken part in.
The description of the broken crystal ball makes me think of Madame Lulu.
I guess Dr Orwell gives eye exams for free, even though Phil has to pay for the hospital later.
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Post by Foxy on Mar 20, 2019 11:00:26 GMT -5
Chapter FourI know Handler originally only had a contract for four books, but at what point was that extended? There are a lot of things in this book that make me think he already knew he was going to be able to publish more while he was writing it, but the Baudelaires reflecting on how much their lives have changed since they first became orphans has a 'last book in the series' feel to it. I never knew he had a contract for the first four books until recently. I thought he just didn't come up with a plot line until book five. Interesting! Sometimes it seems like it! I love that, when some people seem to understand her. Personally, I don't think the process started over again. I think the time Klaus used the stamp machine was the first time the Baudelaires saw the stamp machine in action. I think it's just part of the charm of the ridiculousness of the situation. I think he was talking about her. Insurance probably pays for the eye exams.  |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Mar 21, 2019 12:02:40 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think the process started over again. I think the time Klaus used the stamp machine was the first time the Baudelaires saw the stamp machine in action. Yeah, rereading Chapter Seven made it clear that the Baudelaires had not previously been at Lucky Smells during the stamping process, otherwise lines like 'The Baudelaires had no idea what Foreman Flacutono meant by stamping, and thought maybe it involved jumping up and down on boards for some reason' (p94) wouldn't make sense. Still, it could be assumed that they only do the stamping once they have a larger load of lumber to sell off, or else the description of the 'few days' it takes for each stage is more like ten rather than four or five. It may not be the most natural way of reading the text, but I think that imagining this book taking place over a slightly longer period of time is helpful, in particular for resolving the confusion of how long Isadora and Duncan were at Prufrock (although it doesn't entirely resolve this). Chapter Six'Quiet as mimes' always makes me laugh. I love how the series makes me think of language and idioms from a different angle. 'He had on a new pair of glasses that looked just like his old ones, except they were so new that they shone in the moonlight.' (p82-3) Would a pair of glasses really do this? Chapter Seven
Violet remembering the promise she made to her parents also gives the vibe of this being the last book of the series. There's a sense of the story having come full circle. 'Violet and Sunny couldn't help wondering if people who would make their houses out of these boards would mind having the name of the lumbermill written on the walls of their homes.' (p94-5) This is a good point. Maybe people just paint over the boards? We know Lucky Smells was involved with the construction of many, if not all, of the VFD Safe Places, and yet they don't seem to have the stamp on their buildings. Saying the word 'inordinate' unprompted isn't Flacutono's brightest moment. |
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Post by Foxy on Mar 21, 2019 14:25:52 GMT -5
'Violet and Sunny couldn't help wondering if people who would make their houses out of these boards would mind having the name of the lumbermill written on the walls of their homes.' (p94-5) This is a good point. Maybe people just paint over the boards? We know Lucky Smells was involved with the construction of many, if not all, of the VFD Safe Places, and yet they don't seem to have the stamp on their buildings. I guess when you look at houses, you don't typically see unfinished or unpainted boards on the outside? The boards I think are usually on the inside of the structure. Does this book ever mention the lumber being green? I thought that was the color V.F.D. used for a while when they constructed their headquarters, and then it became too big of a tip-off, so they stopped using the green lumber. But the floor of the lobby of the Hotel Denouement was green, if I am remembering correctly, and Sir and Charles talked about having to deliver the lumber for the hotel in the middle of the night. Going back to the detail about Handler only having a contract for four books at first - was it the same for ATWQ? Is that why there are only four books; because ATWQ just didn't take off like ASOUE did? Or did he really only want to write four books for that series? |
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Post by Dante on Mar 21, 2019 15:25:36 GMT -5
Going back to the detail about Handler only having a contract for four books at first - was it the same for ATWQ? Is that why there are only four books; because ATWQ just didn't take off like ASOUE did? Or did he really only want to write four books for that series? ATWQ is much more tightly-constructed than ASoUE and was very clearly imagined as a tetralogy; I've looked back, and it was also announced as a four-book series, so that number was always locked in. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on Mar 22, 2019 9:31:23 GMT -5
Does this book ever mention the lumber being green? I thought that was the color V.F.D. used for a while when they constructed their headquarters, and then it became too big of a tip-off, so they stopped using the green lumber. But the floor of the lobby of the Hotel Denouement was green, if I am remembering correctly, and Sir and Charles talked about having to deliver the lumber for the hotel in the middle of the night. TMM doesn't mention the boards being green, but I don't think it's a feature of Lucky Smells lumber. You're right about the headquarters and the Hotel Denouement lobby, but if VFD is contracting special orders from Lucky Smells, they might have specifically requested and paid extra for them to paint the boards, or else done it themselves. Chapter Eight"'What else can we do? Klaus said quietly." (p108) This is echoed a lot in TPP, though more with moral dilemmas. 'My beloved Beatrice, before her untimely death, asked it, although she asked it too late. The question is: Where is Count Olaf?' (p109) This is the first evidence that Beatrice knew Olaf, and therefore that Lemony's story and that of the Baudelaires are directly linked. The conception of this connection is one of the things I really do like about this book. Also, the implication of this line is that Olaf was the one who killed Beatrice, but it's possible it refers to another incident; Olaf could have murdered Beatrice's parents, say. 'If you have been following the story of these three orphans since the very beginning,' (p109) The previous paragraph feels like a plot hook to later books, but this line seems like it could be part of a series finale. I think the obvious conclusion to come to in this chapter is that Olaf is 'Dr Orwell'; I'm pretty sure I thought this was the case the first time I read the book. Introducing Olaf so late in the book was a really interesting idea on Handler's part, especially considering that, up to now, he has consistently first appeared around Chapter Three. Chapter Nine'"I don't care if we're impolite," Violet said, "to such a disgusting person as yourself."' (p117) Oh, Violet, we have come a long way from TBB where you wouldn't even complain to Justice Strauss about Olaf making you cook dinner. '"You've been lurking around Paltryville since we arrived, haven't you?"' (p118) What would Olaf have been doing this whole time? Just scheming with Dr Orwell? Maybe he was also taking care of VFD business elsewhere. 'Violet and Sunny noticed that beneath her one long eyebrow - another identifying mark of Count Olaf - she was wearing long false eyelashes.' (p118) Olaf didn't bother to hide his eyebrow? |
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Post by Foxy on Mar 22, 2019 13:47:25 GMT -5
'My beloved Beatrice, before her untimely death, asked it, although she asked it too late. The question is: Where is Count Olaf?' (p109) This is the first evidence that Beatrice knew Olaf, and therefore that Lemony's story and that of the Baudelaires are directly linked. The conception of this connection is one of the things I really do like about this book. Also, the implication of this line is that Olaf was the one who killed Beatrice, but it's possible it refers to another incident; Olaf could have murdered Beatrice's parents, say. In the final ATWQ, Ghede and Gifford tell Snicket Beatrice and Olaf are working together. But this is maybe before Olaf defects? This is why TMM was one of my favorite books. I was terrified of Count Olaf, so I liked his not showing up until late. Personally, I think children should help cook dinner, and a girl of fourteen should be able to cook a meal. I think Snicket's whole "children shouldn't be allowed near a stove" ordeal in TEE is lawn-mower parenting. She's almost an adult! She should have these important life skills. Probably scheming. Since he disguised himself as a woman, I don't think it really matters if he has one eyebrow or not. His plan is for people to assume he is a woman, and therefore cannot be Count Olaf. |
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Post by Dante on Mar 22, 2019 16:38:19 GMT -5
One of my favourite features of this book is that Olaf doesn't even bother to disguise his eyebrow.
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