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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 19, 2019 12:51:59 GMT -5
Post! Post! Post!
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Post by Foxy on May 20, 2019 6:59:41 GMT -5
Personal Notes:
Is that Snicket in the front picture? (1)
The parents went to La Forza del Destino while Sunny was alive, which means within the past two years. They made Olaf an orphan as an adult? (1)
Again with the realtors. Maybe Josephine had the right to be afraid of them. What if all her fears were actually founded in truth?(2)
Kit and Quigley stole a helicopter? And now Quigley is piloting said helicopter by himself? (2)
Who are the people in the not a chapter?
Was Snicket in the taxi behind Kit? (4)
Large ornamental vases, too large to hold flowers and too small to hold spies (5)
Sir and Charles delivered wood to the hotel in the middle of the night (5)
“If what J.S. wrote is true, then their parents –“ (5)
“large, ornamental vases that were taller than Sunny but not nearly as charming.” (6)
“Speaking of running from the law –“ Mr. Remora (6)
Dewey mentions the stacks of newspaper in Paltryville (8)
Why would Hal have had no place to live after the hospital burned down? (8)
Count Olaf burned Dewey’s house down? But he, Kit, and Dewey are all the same age? (8)
“The most important aspect of every social occasion isn’t food and drink! ... It’s conversation!” (8): I don’t know if I agree with that or not. Good food is important.
Did Count Olaf actually buy a boat and costume for Carmelita? Also, how did he buy The Beatrice? (9)
I love Count Olaf wanting Carmelita to be disciplined. Maybe he would have made a good parent. (9)
Kit waterskiis while she is pregnant. (10)
Sir stole Lemony’s pajamas. (10)
“Although the youngest Baudelaire had little experience with metallic weapons…” (11): FALSE!!!
“And someone bumped into Sunny’s head, assumed she was an ornamental vase, and tried to place an umbrella in her mouth.” (11) Hahahahahaha!
Why would they know “contempt” from Uncle Monty taking them to the movies? (11)
Why is there no stenographer in the court? (11)
Noblesse oblige means well-to-do people take care of impoverished people. (12)
Count Olaf stole 27 cakes (13)
Count Olaf cried, “Mommy!” (13)
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THE PENULTIMATE PERIL
CHARACTERS:
Violet Baudelaire (1)
Klaus Baudelaire (1)
Sunny Baudelaire (1): so many of her teeth are growing in that they don’t appear to be of such unusual size
Count Olaf (1)
Kit Snicket (1)
The man with the beard but no hair
The woman with the hair but no beard
Jacques Snicket (2)
Geraldine Julienne (2)
Quigley Quagmire (2)
Captain Widdershins (2)
Duncan and Isadora Quagmire (2)
Charles (2)
Frank (2)
Hugo (2)
Colette (2)
Kevin (2)
Ernest (2)
Hector (2)
Count Omar (3)
cranky rabbi (3): realized Hebrew was read right to left instead of left to right (7)
Esmé Squalor (4)
Carmelita Spats (4)
Uncle Monty (5)
Fiona (5)
Sir (5)
Vice Principal Nero (6): purposefully left a ring on the table of the restaurant
Mr. Remora (6)
Mrs. Bass (6): “so I had to resort to a life of crime.”
Hal (6)
Woman and a chemist (7): Colette and friend?
Ambidextrous man (7): Kevin
Housekeeper (7): drilled a hole behind an ornamental vase to look at elevator cables annoying sound was coming from floor seven above her
Villain in a coffee shop (7)
waitress (7)
Banker (7): Mr. Poe
family (7): was searching for a doily
taxi driver (7)
man with unusually shaped back (7): Hugo – why did he leave his luggage with the taxi driver?
Woman in a diving helmet (7): on the sea side of the hotel, trying to find something in the water
A woman and a man (7): they loved each other but were separated
Four children (7): about to receive some dreadful news
A person (7): learned something, there was a fuss
Trainer of people who climb down unravelling rope (7): is in hiding and does spider imitations
Dewy Denouement (8)
Edith Wharton (8): recruited Dewey
Dewey’s comrade (8): Kit? arrived at Heimlich Hospital to find Hal
Josephine Anwhistle (8)
Madame Lulu (8)
Math teacher of the woman with the hair but no beard (8)
Justice Strauss (8): admitted to horse-thievery (9)
Jerome Squalor (8)
Hooky (9): double-crossed Olaf and stole his submarine
Beatrice (9): stole Esmé’s sugar bowl
hotel guest who says “I didn’t realize this was a sad occasion (10)
taxi driver: Lemony Snicket (10): he had the sugar bowl? or the woman was the one looking for things in the ocean side of the hotel
woman hiding in the trunk (10)
Mrs. Morrow (10)
Mr. Lesko (10)
Jerry (11): Klaus was mistaken for him – maybe the man from Veblen Hall was looking for Jerome?
Authorities (12): guarding the entrance – who are these people?
Eleanora Poe (13)
VIOLET’S INVENTION:
Drag chutes to guide the boat to the ocean (13)
KLAUS’S RESEARCH:
Reading Native Son (12)
SUNNY’S BITING/COOKING:
? She burnt down the hotel. (13)
THE LIBRARY:
The hotel
V.F.D.:
Verbal Fridge Dialogue (2)
Volunteer Factual Dispatch (2)
Vessel For Disaccharides (2)
Village of Fowl Devotees (2)
Vision Furthering Device (6)
Vernacularly Fastened Door (6)
Valley of Four Drafts (8)
Verse Fluctuation Declaration (9)
J.S.:
Lurking around the basement (4) – Jerome Squalor
Said Charles must be very careful if he wants to find the Baudelaires (5)
Told Sir to bring his valuables to a party (5) – Julio Sham
She has been using her vision furthering device to watch the skies (6) – Justice Strauss
SNICKET SECRETS:
He was at the opera house on a fateful evening, hurrying out before a certain woman could spot him. (1)
He had an occasion to should, “Please turn around! I think they’ve driven through those hedges! (4)
He once threw himself down a flight of stairs to avoid a milliner because he discovered a sinister truth about her berets, but the paramedic who repaired his arm fired him from playing accordion in a certain opera after only two and a half performances. (6) La Forza del Destino?
He is hiding under the coffee table of a notorious villain at a cocktail party. (6)
He is crying as he writes this. (8)
He thought the sausages were arranged in the shape of a K instead of an R, so a submarine was destructed (11)
REFERENCES (real and made up):
The Walrus and the Carpenter by Lewis Carroll (1)
The Waste Land by T.S. Eliot (1)
La Forza del Destino by Giuseppe Verdi (1)
The Daily Punctilio (2)
John Godfrey Saxe (7): poem about elephant and blind men
Edith Wharton (8)
Odious Lusting After Finance (8)
Bion of Borysthenes (8): supposedly one of the first volunteers
Native Son by Richard Wright (9)
Robert Frost (9)
Willa Cather (10)
SNICKETISMS:
the one about the world being like a calm pond (1)
the one about deciding whether or not to trust someone (1)
the one about destiny (1)
the one about the mirror (2)
the one about when someone is crying (2)
the one about the phrase “off with you” and someone mistaking your home for their home and your valuable belongings for theirs (3)
the one about the worst thing which could happen in a library (3)
the one about “silence is golden” (4)
the one about “it’s a small world” (5) which led to a waiter war
the one about the three ways you can leave a job (6)
the one about the advantages of being taciturn (6)
the one about the denouement of a story not being the end of the story (8)
the one about Dewey being wrong about how being noble enough is all we can ask for (8)
the one about what to do when someone has disappointed you (8)
the one about how in an instant everything can change (9)
the one about not seeing how laws or sausages are made (10)
the one about it being difficult to make one’s way in the world without being wicked at one point or another (12)
the one about the burning of a book being sad (13)
BAUDELAIRE FAMILY HISTORY:
When their mother was pregnant with Sunny, she lounged on a sofa in the library. Their father would get lemonade and pumpernickel toast for her and adjust her pillows. He would play music from a phonograph, and they would dance.
The parents went to a showing of La Forza del Destino (1)
Their father wore a frown when he was confused (2)
The family went to the Hotel Preludio for a weekend once. Sunny had carrots for breakfast. (2)
The parents used to play backgammon, and when their mother would win, she would say to their father, “Bertrand, I have won again. Prepare to eat crow.” And then she would tickle him. (6)
The Baudelaire’s father was a fan of American humorist poetry. He would recite about an elephant to the children. (7)
Their father used to meet Dewey, and they would recite poetry so they would recognize each other through their disguises. (7)
Their mother always said as soon as Sunny could walk, she would be going places. (11)
The parents were good listeners when listening to their children. (11)
At the Hotel Preludio, their mother did magic tricks with rolls, and their father pressed all the buttons in an elevator to annoy Eleanora Poe. Sunny learned how to blow bubbles that weekend. (13)
SNICKET DICTIONARY:
Adroit technical faculties: a knack for inventing mechanical devices (1)
At sea: lost and confused (8)
Augmented: increased dramatically as they realized they had some bad news for Kit Snicket (2)
Blind leading the blind: a confusing situation in which the people in charge know nothing more than the people following them (11)
Bootless: likely to get the siblings in even more trouble (10)
Budding gourmand: young girl with a strong interest in cooking (6)
Busman’s holiday: when people do the same thing on vacation that they do in their everyday lives (5)
Caught a few winks: slept fitfully in the closet-sized Room 121 (11)
Denouement: unraveling of a confusing or mysterious story (8)
Discover crucial information necessary to save their skins: keep them alive for the next terrible chapter in their lives (3)
Disputants: people who are arguing (7)
Distraught: sad and upset (1)
Dual Purpose: enabled the Baudelaires to do two things at once (13)
Eating crow: enduring humiliation (6)
Exit by mutual agreement: you wanted to quit, and your employer wanted to fire you, and that you ran out of the office, factory, or monastery before anyone could decide who got to go first (6)
Fend for themselves: go first from guardian to guardian, and then from desperate situation to desperate situation, trying to survive, and solve the mysteries that hung over their heads like smoke (13)
Figurehead: wooden statue of an octopus attacking a man in a diving suit (4)
Fired: your employer was disappointed with you (6)
Fortify: a few sips of ta might give the children some much-needed strength for their ordeal (11)
Get a little shut-eye: lie down behind a large, wooden desk and hope that nobody rings for the concierge until morning. (7)
Get their bearings: stop staring at this perplexing sight and direct their attention to Kit Snicket (2)
Gruffly: in a tone that indicated he had no intention of being more polite (5)
Had seen better days: had lost most of its petals and wilted considerably (1)
Hazard a guess: attempt to answer Klaus’s question (3)
Holding a grudge: was an enemy of the Baudelaires (6)
Immeasurably: a whole lot (8)
Impresario: someone who puts on theatrical spectacles (11)
Inadvertent trouble: published in the newspaper that the Baudelaire orphans had murdered Jacques Snicket, whom she mistakenly identified as Count Olaf (2)
It’s my pleasure: There’s nothing I would rather do less (5)
Let something slip: said something she wished she hadn’t (4)
Sequentially: so that the events in the lives of Violet, Klaus, and Sunny Baudelaire are related in the order in which they occurred (not a chapter)
Not born yesterday: young or innocent enough to believe things certain people say about the world (8)
Occupation: a job; how one spends one’s time; the state one is in (11)
Oft: often (7)
Pandemonium: a crowd of blindfolded people attempting to give evidence to three judges (11)
Peccant: so hungry for evil deeds as to be unhealthy (12)
Postpone their grief: mourn the death of Dewey Denouement at a later time (10)
Prate: chatter (7)
Preoccupied: in desperate and mysterious circumstances brought about by Count Olaf (2); wondering what exactly Esmé Squalor and Carmelita Spats were doing at the Hotel Denouement (4)
Quit: you were disappointed with your employer (6)
Rail on: bicker for hours on end (7)
Rampant: without anyone to stop it (2)
Signage: signs (2)
Small mercy: a tiny thing that has gone right in a world gone wrong (8)
Social order: the systems people use to organize their lives (13)
Sporadic: consisting of a great number of occupations, held for a short time and under very unusual circumstances (11)
Stint: dreadful period of time (6)
Strain: physical activity that might endanger either the woman or her future offspring (1)
Struck someone a fatal blow: killed one of the people in the room (9)
Stuff of legend: very famous for being very loud (4)
Taciturn demeanor: only communicate when absolutely necessary, so as not to call attention to her youth and relative inexperience in employment (6)
Takes the cake: I find this especially amusing and outrageous! (12)
Theologic wars: arguing over what different people believe (7)
Thirsty aspirations: things people want
Took center stage: stepped forward, and twisted her body into an unusual shape (8)
Turned on his heel: turned around in a somewhat fancy matter (4)
Unconvincingly: clearly telling a lie (4)
Unfathomable: blank, so the Baudelaires could not tell if he was giving them a friendly warning or a sinister threat (3)
Ween: think (7)
Whimsical: odd and impulsive (7)
SUNNY SPEECH:
Accident! (10)
Aha! (8)
Also hope so. (2)
Andiamo: I’d be happy to take you there. (6)
Bildungsroman: Since that moment, our story has been a long, dreadful education in the wicked ways of the world and the mysterious secrets hidden in all of its corners. (11)
Burn down hotel. (12)
But truth. (10)
Brunch? (1)
Carrots for breakfast (2)
Catalog? (12)
Change?: (Should we change into our uniforms?) (2)
Child. (11)
Concierge (6)
Condition (1)
Dangerous. Take stairs. (13)
Denouement! (9)
Dewey. (8)
Drat. (13)
Dual purpose. (13)
Each was partly in the right. (7)
Efcharisto. (8)
Elephant. (7)
Ernest? (7)
Expound: I’m afraid I don’t know what that word means. (2)
Expound again. (2)
Father. (7)
Fire! Use stairs. Do not use elevator! (13)
Frank first. (3)
Frankernest. (7)
Galimatias!: (Nonsense!) (8)
Good-bye. (13)
Help me. (13)
Henribergson: It’s more complicated than that. (10)
Hmm. (2)
I feel fine. (13)
It’s dark. (7)
J. S. (7)
John Godfrey Saxe. (7)
Kevin!
La Forza del Destino (1)
Like blind men with elephant. (7)
Mama and Poppa and poison darts? (11)
Maybe no. (7)
Mob psychology (10)
Mycelium? (you know about the Meducoid Mycelium?) (8)
Nidiculous: I think I’m still a child. (3)
Nine: (Ninth floor) (6)
No. (13)
No habla Esperanto: I’m sorry; I don’t know what you’re talking about. (6)
Noble enough. (13)
Not yet. One more thing. (12)
Oh. (13)
Olaf (1)
Olaf or us? (10)
Or both. (2)
Or Ernest. (7)
Or fail us. (11)
Or Frank. (3)
Or put gun down. (9)
Our parents. (8)
Partially. (10)
Peek. (11)
Penulhoo? (2)
Please. (9)
Poem. (7)
Poppycock!: Nonsense. (10)
Preludio. (13)
Pronto: (Quickly) (13)
Queequeg? (2)
Real McCoy! (11)
Run? (10)
Scalia: It doesn’t seem like the literal interpretation makes any sense. (11)
Signal. (13)
Smoke? (8)
Spatulas as oars. (13)
Spinsickle: laundy room (7)
Stairs. (13)
Sugar bowl (2)
Sunny Baudelaire (11)
Sunny Baudelaire please help: Yes, I’m Sunny Baudelaire, and my siblings and I need your help uncovering the mysterious plot unfolding in the Hotel Denouement, and signaling our findings to the members of V.F.D. (6)
The fire. (13)
The funnel Frank said. Or Ernest. (7)
The last safe place is safe no more. (13)
The world is quiet here. (7)
Thursday (8)
Thursinterest: He knew that Thursday was important. (3)
Tired. (7)
Torn: I see the advantages and disadvantages of both plans of action. (10)
Trap. (7)
Trust?: Does Kit Snicket seem like a reliable person, and should we follow her? (1)
Unfathomable (11)
Unsafe: I’d rather not find the impostor if I’m all by myself. (3)
Us alone? Do you really think three children can accomplish all this by themselves? (2)
Verdict? (8)
We don’t know. (10)
We failed you. (9)
We’re sorry (10)
What? How? (7)
What else can we do? (13)
What is next? (13)
Why do this? (12)
Why Nero? Why Remora? Why Bass? Why Hal? (7)
Yes. (6)
You rang (6)
You’ll fail. (12)
GEOGRAPHY:
Briny Beach (1)
Hotel Denouement (2)
Hotel Preludio (2)
Caligari Carnival (2)
Mortmain Mountains (2)
Gorgonian Grotto (2)
Coral formation of dubious quality (2)
A certain clump of seaweed (2)
Village of Fowl Devotees (2)
Lousy Lane (5)
Lucky Smells Lumbermill (5)
Paltryville (5)
Finite Forest (5)
Prufrock Preparatory School (6)
Heimlich Hospital (6)
Lake Lachrymose (8)
childhood home of the man with the beard but no hair (8)
FOODOLOGY:
loaves of bread (2)
butter
ajm
melted chocolate
pastries (muffins, donuts, custard eclairs)
quiche
smoked fish
fruit
juice
coffee
tea
marmalade
Rice (6)
Shrimp vindaloo
chana aloo masala
tandoori salmon
samosas
mango lassi
sada rava dosai
fried bananas
candy
rhubarb pie (7)
DEWEY DECIMAL MENTIONS:
000: Computer science, information, & general works (3): employees’ quarters
020: Library & information sciences (8)
025: Library Operations (6): Laundry room
101: Theory of Philosophy (3): reception desk
118: Force and Energy (3): elevators
121: Epistemology (theory of knowledge) (4): room where harpoon gun was hidden; room where the Baudelaires were locked up (10)
123: Determinism and indeterminism (3): green wooden floors
128: Humankind (3): wooden bench with rings on it from people not using coasters
131: Parapsychological and occult methods for achieving well-being, happiness, success (3): enormous waterfall
135: Dreams & mysteries (3): couches – had a doily hiding under one of the cushions (7)
152: Sensory Perception, movement, emotions, & physiological drives (3): man playing a grand piano
165: Fallacies & sources of error: where Count Olaf was locked up
168: Argument & persuasion (3): newstand
174: Occupational ethics (7): room a banker was staying in – Mr. Poe
175: Ethics of recreation, leisure, public performances, communication (3): concierge desk
176: Ethics of sex & reproduction (3): an enormous woman shouting a man’s name over and over in an annoyed tone of voice
178: Ethics of consumption (7): coffee shop
296: Judaism (3): a cranky rabbi
371: Schools and their activities: special education (3): educational guests
469: Portuguese (3): Portuguese guests
547: Organic chemistry (5): all sort of smelly things in there
594: Mollusca & Molluscoidea (7): family with tanks of tropical fish
613: Personal Health & Safety (3): a sauna
621: Applied Physics (4)
674: lumber processing, wood products, cork (3): associates in the lumber industry
697: Heating, ventilating, air conditioning engineering (3): the controls for heating, ventilation, and air conditioning
786: Keyboard, mechanical, electrophonic, percussion instruments (5): concertina is in this room
792: Stage presentations (3): a theater
831: German poetry (3): a gathering of German poets
954: India & neighboring southasian countries (6): Indian restaurant
999: Extraterrestrial worlds (3): astronomy observatory
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Post by Hermes on May 20, 2019 9:15:22 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I have been too busy to take an active part in this reread, but I just want to say I think it's a really great enterprise. While everyone involved is doing excellent things, I especially appreciate Foxy's contribution; she is creating the ASOUE encyclopaedia that we have long hoped for. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 20, 2019 17:32:08 GMT -5
Is that Snicket in the front picture? (1) I've always thought it was him - the man depicted even looks like Patrick Warburton! Pretty impressive when you consider how long before the TV show this would have been drawn. It's probably my favourite illustration in the series. There has been some debate as to when this event would have occurred. Klaus saying '"Our parents took a taxi to the opera one evening when their car wouldn't start."' (p8) definitely makes it seems though it happened while he was alive, but if the night at the opera was the catalyst that launched Olaf into a life of villainy, it makes sense to assume it happened when he was young. You wouldn't think that ordering a taxi would be such a significant thing that it in itself would be an event Beatrice and Bertrand would talk about years later, but maybe taxis aren't that common in the Snicketverse? I still think the timeline comes together better if you assume Olaf's parents were killed when he was still a teenager. I'm not sure there's any indication Sunny was alive, apart from the fact she remembers the poster, but if it had been visible in the house right up until it burnt down, it's not necessarily too surprising that she would have noticed it. It definitely seems like he was. This idea makes Kit's certainty that the taxi was being driven by a villain all the more painful, since allowing the car to catch Kit up would have given her one last chance to see her brother.He and Mrs Bass and Nero are really not very subtle about her crimes. I can't believe they don't get caught, though considering what we know of the authorities in the Snicketverse it's maybe not so surprising. I guess he must have lived in the hospital? I don't think THH implies this, though. Because of his age, I don't think he can have killed the Denouement parents. Maybe he killed other relatives of the Denouements as an adult, meaning they now have no family left? I think in TE the origins of the Beatrice are retconned such that it is made clear that Olaf stole the boat, but how he would have got access to it is still confusing.I've always found this line strange. Neither TRR or the script of Zombies in the Snow from TUA mention contempt. General NotesThis is my favourite book in the series - I think it has the best balance of VFD backstory and philosophical musings. Bringing back all the characters from previous instalments makes for a really fun read, and the contrast of the hope that Olaf will be convicted, and all the VFD members will finally be able to gather, against the knowledge of how the previous books have gone, works very well, I think. For this book and TE, the HarperCollins and Egmont covers are the same, so I can't compare them anymore. I really like the illustration, though - it might be my favourite cover out of the series. I like the spine colour of the Egmont edition, but it sort of clashes next to the spines of TGG and TE. The spine colour of the HarperCollins edition is similar, just slightly less bright - it has the same issue in relation to the TGG cover. I think this dedication is the first time it's stated that Beatrice died in a fire - I think before this, it's only been implied that that is what happened. Chapter OneHotel Denouement seems to be on the opposite side of the city to Briny Beach, even though we find out later it's also on the coast. Maybe the city is on a small peninsula. Kit was clearly part of the make-Olaf-an-orphan plot. If she and Olaf were romantically involved at the time, it makes the whole thing even more tragic, even if it does make her motives somewhat confusing. '"Mother said she purchased [the La Forza del Destino poster] during the intermission, as a souvenir. She said it was the most interesting time she'd ever had at the opera, and she never wanted to gorget it."' (p15) On a reread, this line becomes very disturbing. Taken at face value, it makes it seem as though Beatrice is proud of having killed (one of) Olaf's parents. I guess it could be said that she bought the poster out of guilt - she never wanted to forget what she had done lest she ever feel tempted to slip into villainy again. |
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Post by Foxy on May 21, 2019 6:50:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I have been too busy to take an active part in this reread, but I just want to say I think it's a really great enterprise. While everyone involved is doing excellent things, I especially appreciate Foxy 's contribution; she is creating the ASOUE encyclopaedia that we have long hoped for. Thank you, Hermes! Since I haven't even been here for a year, and you are one of the long-standing members of the community, your comments mean a lot to me. And I'm thankful to veryferociousdrama for starting this reread, because I always wanted to make a commonplace book, and now I had a reason to do so. For this book and TE, the HarperCollins and Egmont covers are the same, so I can't compare them anymore. I really like the illustration, though - it might be my favourite cover out of the series. I like the spine colour of the Egmont edition, but it sort of clashes next to the spines of TGG and TE. The spine colour of the HarperCollins edition is similar, just slightly less bright - it has the same issue in relation to the TGG cover. As far as colors go, each spine color is used twice (technically) for the HarperCollins editions. Blue - TBB, TCC Red - TRR, TEE Green - TWW, TGG Purple - TMM, TPP (The Pony Party) Black/Gray (I consider these colors closely related) - TAA, TVV Orange - THH, TPP Brown - TSS, TE |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 21, 2019 17:45:25 GMT -5
As far as colors go, each spine color is used twice (technically) for the HarperCollins editions. Blue - TBB, TCC Red - TRR, TEE Green - TWW, TGG Purple - TMM, TPP (The Pony Party) Black/Gray (I consider these colors closely related) - TAA, TVV Orange - THH, TPP Brown - TSS, TE Oh, interesting - I hadn't noticed that before. In the Egmont edition, each spine is a different colour, although TE is very similar to TRR. If you put them side by side, TE is slightly darker, but if you shelve the books in order they look the same. Chapter TwoLove the mirror text. Considering we haven't even been introduce to Ernest and Frank at this point, it seems a bit of a stretch to call Dewey 'a previously unknown sibling' (p20). I mean, all the Denouement brothers are, at this point, previously unknown siblings in that the Baudelaires have never met or heard of any of them. The description of brunch always makes me hungry. Why would it be so important for VFD's enemies to not get their hands on VFD picnics? I guess this could relate to the sugar bowl in some way (at least, sugar bowls as they are generally used by the organisation) - if information was hidden in a sugar bowl being transported along with the picnic, it would make sense why villains discovering it should be such a problem. VFD set up a safe place in an opium den?! '"I was four years old when everything changed."' (p27) This makes it sound like the schism occurred longer go than what has been implied by previous books, though this is the first time a specific time-frame has been given. Considering the level of disarray present in VFD, it does make more sense that the organisation would have split a while ago. I'm still confused about the difference between a safe place and a headquarters. 667 Dark Avenue, the Versailles Post Office, etc, were all explicitly said to be headquarters in TUA, and none of them are brought up here. But functionally, don't safe places fill the same role as a headquarters would? Someone must have broken into Kit's house to leave a message in her fridge. VFD members really do choose the most convoluted ways to communicate with each other, don't they? '"the last safe place may not be safe after all," Kit said sadly.' (p33) This has been brought up before, but with Ernest working there, how could anyone think the hotel is safe? I guess it's possible he only recently defected to the 'bad' side of VFD, but his identity as a villain seems widely known. He may not know all the secrets hidden in the hotel, but still. Maybe Kit just thinks he isn't scheming to stop the volunteers from meeting and, in that sense, the hotel could still be a safe place to gather, especially if the plan was for Olaf to have been arrested by that point. It's still odd, though. Who is the J.S. that checked into the hotel? My guess is that it's Lemony, posing as Jacques, though clearly communication between him and Kit has been disrupted enough that she didn't know he was going to do this. '"tea should be bitter as wormwood, my brother used to say, and sharp as a two-edged sword-"' (p35) This quote sort of sums up ASOUE - Lemony tells his readers the truth about the world, and doesn't sguar-coat it. I'm also reminded of the subtitle of Horseradish - the series is full of 'bitter truths you can't avoid'. '"The three of you must infiltrate the Hotel Denouement and observe J.S. If J.S. is a noble person, then you must make sure that the sugar bowl falls into his or her hands, but if J.S. is a villainous person, you must make sure it does not."' (p37) Like the Verbal Fridge Dialogue, this really feels like a set-up. Surely Kit should know about the real plan to deliver the sugar bowl, and even if not, she should probably think that the Baudelaires' mission should just be to make sure no villains know the answers to open the lock in the laundry room. It seems like Kit is testing the Baudelaires in a way, assessing their espionage skills in a situation where their actions are probably going to lead to the desired outcome (which they do, up to the point where Dewey dies). '"You're not children anymore, Baudelaires. You're volunteers, ready to face the challenges of a desperate and perplexing world."' (p43) This is definitely true, but Kit seems to be framing it as a positive, when I'm not sure she should be. Certainly, I'm not sure if the Baudelaires themselves would view it this way - they've lost so much since they became orphans. Kit's speech towards the end of the chapter seems to imply that the Baudelaires should burn the hotel down if it isn't safe. She's so cryptic it makes her come across as fairly manipulative. This feels intentional, though. Wouldn't it look suspicious for concierges to be wearing sunglasses inside? Chapter Three'There are places where the world is quiet, but the enormous lobby of the Hotel Denouement was not one of them.' (p51) This should already be a hint that the last safe place isn't safe, but it's subtle enough it's easy to miss. In which order to the different managers speak to the Baudelaires? I've never been able to guess this. I think this has been suggested before, but it's possible some of the bellboys/girls are the kidnapped Snow Scouts. 'Klaus ran his hand along the bench, which was etched with rings, form people setting down glasses without using coasters.' (p56) Was this bench in the Royal Gardens originally? I now can't remember. One wonders why it would have been moved. The Sebald code is a really exciting extra detail for the careful reader, though, as has been pointed out before, it (probably) has a mistake. The message probably should be "I can't tell if you are associates or enemies please respond", not "I can't tell if you are in or enemies", although, as I believe was pointed out in the 2009 reread, it's interesting that the word next to enemies is 'out'. I'm not sure, then, if the mistake is intentional - if so, maybe that's meant to signify it's actually Ernest talking? But it could go either way. Also, it would be incredibly difficult to receive a message in Sebald code vocally - how could the Baudelaires have counted all the words as the manager was saying them, even if they did know the code? |
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takatoguil
Catastrophic Captain
Posts: 64 
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Post by takatoguil on May 21, 2019 22:08:56 GMT -5
It's also worth noting that the word next to associates is 'in', so the message could thus have been meant to be "I can't tell if you are in or out, please respond." Thus, the maximum ambiguity is conserved: one message is something Frank might say, the other something Ernest might use instead.
It almost makes me wish the mistake weren't so clearly an editorial error.
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Post by Foxy on May 22, 2019 7:07:23 GMT -5
Me too. I'm trying to remember all the examples of unique things Snicket does with texts. TBB - repeated sentences while Klaus is reading. TRR - "ever" page. TEE - Black pages. TCC - Deja vu page. Are there others? I think there is a fourth Baudelaire sibling. At the headquarters, no villains seem to be allowed, but at safe places, like the hotel, there are villains. This seems to negate the hotel being safe, though. I think in the RE Notes discussion, someone said it was the same bench. I don't think Frank and Ernest are good or bad. To me, they both seem ambiguous throughout the whole book. |
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Post by Hermes on May 22, 2019 8:05:49 GMT -5
'Hitherto unknown sibling' could also refer to Lemony, a hitherto unknown sibling of Jacques and Kit. I think it's clearly meant to make you think of a hitherto unknown sibling of the Baudelaires, but nothing comes of this, so it's probably a tease.
It's an intriguing theory, though. Perhaps Beatrice did have a child with Lemony, but they are not Violet, but someone hidden?
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 22, 2019 17:09:22 GMT -5
Not A Chapter
I love this formatting, and I also love how tenuous these illustrations are.
Chapter Four
I love the illustration of Hugo.
Filing your nails into different shapes sounds painful, even if it is just the tips.
The description of the Beatrice's figurehead makes me wonder about its origins before the Baudelaire parents got it - the octopus makes me think of Ink, Inc, and the fact that it is attacking a human makes me think of the Inhumane Society.
Wow, I don't think I'd ever noticed that Esme is wearing silver lipstick in this scene.
'"But J.S. is-"' (p87) It's possible Geraldine was either going to say "-a woman" or "-your husband", but neither of those things contradict the idea that JS could be lurking in the basement, so it's odd that that's the part of Esme's dialogue she's focused on.
'The two unsavory females knew full well about V.F.D. and the plans for Thursday's gathering,' (p89) I'm not sure if it actually has been established that the villains know about the gathering, only that they know Hotel Denouement is the last safe place. Also, if they do know about the gathering, how could anyone think it could go ahead? What's the plan here? I guess to lock the relevant villains up before the trial. It's really not clear, though, how much various different people know about what's going on.
When did Esme last have her harpoon gun? Wasn't it described as being in the trunk of Olaf's car as recently as TSS? I guess they must have abandoned the car and that's why she no longer has it. Has the hotel acquired Esme's harpoon gun, and if so, how?
'There are people in this world who say that silence is golden, which simply means that they prefer a calm and peaceful hush to the noise and clatter of the world. There is nothing wrong with such a preference, but sadly there are times when a calm and peaceful hush is simply not possible.' (p92) This seems like a criticism of VFD.
'rather than remain silent [Violet] answered the manager's question as best she could.' (p93) Sometimes, VFD members' aims lead them to inaction. Here, it appears as though Lemony is realising it's better to make a decision than just to do nothing for fear of making the wrong choice.
It's already three pm? They must have spent a long time eating brunch.
Chapter Five
'Smoke was pouring out of the gap between the door and the floor, spreading out across the hallway like a sinister stain.' (p101) How could Sir's cigar produce that much smoke?
'It is a large world, and there are Italian restaurants sprinkled all over it, employing waiters who have crucial messages for you and waiters who are trying to make sure you never receive them,' (p103) Was the villainous waiter described here the one who locked Lemony in a restaurant at the beginning of THH?
I can't imagine what it would be like to wear an actual suit in a sauna.
'"The Finite Forest is running out of trees, so business is bad for the lumbermill."' (p112) I think I mentioned this in the TMM thread, but Sir's logic here is very confusing. Surely, they'd have to cut down more trees if business were good, whereas if they didn't have a lot of orders, they wouldn't need to be cutting down so many. Then, it's odd that Sir cites this as part of an argument about why he doesn't care about the environment. Surely, if he had more regard for the environment and planted more trees as he cut them down, he wouldn't be in this predicament.
Who invited Sir to the party? This sounds like Olaf/Esme's cocktail party, not anything to do with the VFD gathering, so maybe Olaf is pretending to be Jacques, as we see in the Netflix show?
'"If what J.S. wrote is true, then their parents-"' (p113) - What was Charles going to say here? It's hard to figure out. "Their parents were members of a secret organisation," maybe? That's the only solution I can come up with, and even that doesn't necessarily follow from what he said in the previous sentence.
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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 23, 2019 0:59:02 GMT -5
I thought I'd do a chart on JS. I believe the actual JS who organizes the scheme is Justice Strauss, but there are a few others I believe, who are sending messages for Justice, against Justice, or are just being mistaken:
Jerome Squalor,
Julio Sam (Prospero Captain name I made up),
Julio Sham,
Jacob Snicket,
Julienne Star (Geraldine I believe),
Jacques Snicket (being impersonated by either R or Josephine, with Lemony's help),
The Sinister Duo under an unidentified alias.
And who each character believes JS to be:
Frank - Olaf.
Ernest - Olaf or Duo.
Geraldine - Jerome.
Esme - Sam.
Charles - Sam.
Sir - Jacques or Jacob.
Nero - Jerome.
Bass - Olaf or Duo.
Remora - Dunno.
Hal - Justice.
Dewey - Justice.
Poe - Geraldine.
Who actually sent them:
Geraldine - Jerome.
Esme - Sam.
Charles - Sam.
Sir - Duo.
Nero - Jerome.
Remora - Justice.
Bass - Duo.
Hal - Justice.
Poe - Duo.
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Post by Foxy on May 23, 2019 6:45:49 GMT -5
'Hitherto unknown sibling' could also refer to Lemony, a hitherto unknown sibling of Jacques and Kit. I think it's clearly meant to make you think of a hitherto unknown sibling of the Baudelaires, but nothing comes of this, so it's probably a tease. It's an intriguing theory, though. Perhaps Beatrice did have a child with Lemony, but they are not Violet, but someone hidden? How would Kit and Jacques have not known Lemony? I have a little different theory. Beatrice was pregnant with a fourth child when their home burned down, and she had the baby at Heimlich Hospital. The description of the Beatrice's figurehead makes me wonder about its origins before the Baudelaire parents got it - the octopus makes me think of Ink, Inc, and the fact that it is attacking a human makes me think of the Inhumane Society. I thought Bertrand built the boat while the parents were on the island. Was it the same harpoon gun, or a different one? Well, for how little they've eaten since TVV, I don't blame them. are still alive!!! Wishful thinking. |
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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 23, 2019 7:07:46 GMT -5
'Hitherto unknown sibling' could also refer to Lemony, a hitherto unknown sibling of Jacques and Kit. I think it's clearly meant to make you think of a hitherto unknown sibling of the Baudelaires, but nothing comes of this, so it's probably a tease. It's an intriguing theory, though. Perhaps Beatrice did have a child with Lemony, but they are not Violet, but someone hidden? How would Kit and Jacques have not known Lemony? I have a little different theory. Beatrice was pregnant with a fourth child when their home burned down, and she had the baby at Heimlich Hospital. The description of the Beatrice's figurehead makes me wonder about its origins before the Baudelaire parents got it - the octopus makes me think of Ink, Inc, and the fact that it is attacking a human makes me think of the Inhumane Society. I thought Bertrand built the boat while the parents were on the island. Was it the same harpoon gun, or a different one? Well, for how little they've eaten since TVV, I don't blame them. are still alive!!! Wishful thinking. I legitimately love the idea of a secret fourth Baudelaire so much. I like to think they didn't have any initial skill, but were able to save many lives during the Hotel fire. Failing that, a baby at Heimlich is cool! |
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Post by Hermes on May 23, 2019 7:12:16 GMT -5
'Hitherto unknown sibling' could also refer to Lemony, a hitherto unknown sibling of Jacques and Kit. I think it's clearly meant to make you think of a hitherto unknown sibling of the Baudelaires, but nothing comes of this, so it's probably a tease. It's an intriguing theory, though. Perhaps Beatrice did have a child with Lemony, but they are not Violet, but someone hidden? How would Kit and Jacques have not known Lemony? I mean unknown to the Baudelaires. (That's what it would mean if applied to Dewey, too.) |
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Post by Foxy on May 23, 2019 10:06:11 GMT -5
How would Kit and Jacques have not known Lemony? I mean unknown to the Baudelaires. (That's what it would mean if applied to Dewey, too.) Oh, I understand. That makes way more sense now. It's so crazy how throughout the series, the children learn about the Snicket siblings, but they never really learn about Lemony, even though he was desperately in love with their mother. |
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