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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 23, 2019 17:15:15 GMT -5
I thought Bertrand built the boat while the parents were on the island. Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. It's still strange he would have chosen a diver being eaten by an octopus as the figurehead, although I guess it's also possible that Olaf just have added it on in order to hide the diving helmet with the Medusoid Mycelium. It might have been a different one. If it were the same, I don't know how the hotel would have got it, but I also don't get why they would have just had a harpoon gun lying around. Maybe it was Ernest's. Chapter Six
I don't think I'd ever noticed that both this chapter and Chapter Five describe the doors, the grey carpet and the bases. I like the parallels, but also how they are different. I love the passage on ways you can leave a job, and how Esme and Olaf's breakup ties back to this later. What could the sinister truth about the milliner's berets have been? Wait, Sunny can read the words 'Mulctuary Money Management'? Also, the idea of Mrs Bass literally having bags of cash piled up in her room always makes me laugh. If Mrs Bass knew the location of the restaurant, why did she even need to ring for a concierge? '"As a teacher, I don't earn enough money to purchase any valuables, so I had to resort to a life of crime."' (p131) The Snicket Sleuth theorises that Kit got Mrs Bass to steal the Baudelaire fortune so the Baudelaires would have to join VFD. I think if you believe all of their theories about Kit, she becomes a really terrible person, which makes TE lose a lot of emotional potency. It's already been established that Esme and Olaf are throwing a cocktail party, while there's no suggestion that members of 'noble' VFD have been involved in this process, though there must have been some level of manipulation on their part to get the villains to the hotel in time for the trial. Overall, I think it makes the most sense to say that Mrs Bass' bank robbery was something she did of her own accord. It seems very likely that Hal and Dewey are talking about Justice Strauss here. What they mean by '"we will all be eating crow"' (p138), I'm not sure. Just that that's how the sugar bowl will be delivered? As Sunny notes, the phrase suggests they will be suffering a defeat in some way. Maybe they are thinking Esme will get to the sugar bowl first? The thing is, they don't really have any reason to think that. I like the anecdote about the Baudelaire parents playing backgammon - it's one of the few glimpses we get into what they were like as a couple. Despite Beatrice's possible lingering feelings for Lemony, it seems like they genuinely did have a good marriage. 'someone who writes twelve or thirteen books in a relatively short time is likely to find themselves hiding under the coffee table of a notorious villain, holding his breath, hoping nobody at the cocktail party will notice the trembling backgammon set,' (p141) I think this syncs up with another incident described later in the book. The sharp-eyed reader should, at this point, be able to figure out that there must be a third Denouement brother, but it's easy to miss that Frank and Ernest shouldn't be able to be in this many places at once. Also Not A Chapter
I like how there's a second of these to bookend the 'simultaneous' parts of the story. Chapter Seven
I love the way the beginning of the chapter 'zooms out' on the immediate story - I sort of wish they had included this in the Netflix show, though I can see why they would have left it out. 'a woman was suddenly recognized by a chemist,' (p151) The 'chemist' must be Colette, but with whom would she be giggling? It doesn't seem like something she'd do with Esme, so I'd say the 'woman' is probably Kevin in his disguise. In that case, the ambidextrous man must be Dewey, who would actually be completely aware of the significance of the 'strange sight' (p151) he is seeing. Who would he be talking to? Frank, maybe? Why is a volunteer trying to read Hebrew in a mirror?? Is he looking for secret messages or something? If not, I don't know what could be gained from that exercise. 'in the coffee shop, located in Room 178, a villain requested sugar in his coffee, was immediately thrown to the floor so a waitress could see if he had a tattoo on his ankle, and then received an apology and a free slice of rhubarb pie for all his trouble.' (p152) This is only, what, the third time anyone has asked for sugar in the series? As with the previous times characters have requested sugar, the reaction to the question is to assume it's code rather than just someone wanting sugar. Asking for it must be a coded phrase within VFD - maybe, before the schism anyway, it would have been a way to obtain the information inside the sugar bowl being kept at any given location. We know the man asking for sugar here is a villain, so he could well know about the code. Interesting that he does not have a tattoo. Maybe that just means he was recruited by other villains after the schism. Is the banker in Room 174 Mr Poe? I'd assume he is. Maybe no one's on the phone line because of the poles that were cut down. 'in Room 594, a family sat unnoticed among tanks of tropical fish, with only a suitcase of dirty laundry for company, unaware that underneath a cushion of a sofa in the lobby was the doily for which they had been searching for more than nine years.' (p152-3) This reminds me of the poor family in TEE to whom Jerome wanted to donate the proceeds of the In Auction, though I guess there really isn't any evidence to suggest they're the same people. One wonders why a doily (presumably of the Very Fancy variety) would be so crucial. Is this taxi driver Lemony? I'd say probably not, since it seems like he came to the hotel by driving Justice Strauss, while this driver drove Hugo. I guess it could be him, though. Another possibility is that he's the driver who took Olaf to Monty's in TRR. 'a woman in a diving helmet and a shiny suit shone a flashlight through the water and tried to see the murky bottom of the sea.' (p153) I assume she's looking for the sugar bowl. It's possible she's the same woman who picked it up from the grotto, but it seems odd that she would then allow it to be taken by the crows before trying to pick it up again. I guess the sugar bowl had to be delivered to the hotel in a conspicuous way so it could lure Olaf and Esme there, so I guess the same person could have been assigned both to take the sugar bowl from the grotto to the crows, and collect it from the pond later. It still seems odd, though. The end of this segment plants the seeds of the 'parallel stories' that become so prevalent in TE. I like the comparison of the Baudelaires' situation to the John Godfrey Saxe poem. 'the best trainer has been forced to go into hiding ever since a certain mountain headquarters was destroyed by arson,' (p170) I wonder if this was the same person who threw the sugar bowl out the window? |
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Post by Foxy on May 24, 2019 7:34:01 GMT -5
Wait, Sunny can read the words 'Mulctuary Money Management'? Also, the idea of Mrs Bass literally having bags of cash piled up in her room always makes me laugh. Sunny probably saw MMM a lot since she was around Mr. Poe a lot. I think it's just because the crow is delivering the sugar bowl and doesn't really have to do with what that particular phrase actually means. More on this when we reread TBL, but I really think Beatrice didn't have any feelings for Lemony once she was with Bertrand. |
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Post by Dante on May 24, 2019 16:30:01 GMT -5
Interested parties may wish to examine my log of events from The Nameless Novel, a website which ran for several months to promote the twelfth book in the series - which they attempted to conceal the title and cover art of until the very day of its release. It was a tremendously ambitious effort, and it almost succeeded. And now for a rather long post. Who are the people in the not a chapter? Enormous red herrings. We were given the first Not A Chapter illustration as part of The Nameless Novel, and it still smarts that its significance was miniscule. The Nameless Novel had a lot of red herrings, but I could respect most of them. Is this referring to the line where he takes credit for eliminating the rest of the Denouement family? There could have been more survivors after the destruction of their childhood home. Some have proposed the mysterious woman to be Kevin in his disguise, although the clue doesn't entirely fit. There has been some debate as to when this event would have occurred. Klaus saying '"Our parents took a taxi to the opera one evening when their car wouldn't start."' (p8) definitely makes it seems though it happened while he was alive, but if the night at the opera was the catalyst that launched Olaf into a life of villainy, it makes sense to assume it happened when he was young. You wouldn't think that ordering a taxi would be such a significant thing that it in itself would be an event Beatrice and Bertrand would talk about years later, but maybe taxis aren't that common in the Snicketverse? I still think the timeline comes together better if you assume Olaf's parents were killed when he was still a teenager. I'm not sure there's any indication Sunny was alive, apart from the fact she remembers the poster, but if it had been visible in the house right up until it burnt down, it's not necessarily too surprising that she would have noticed it. I think that all of the opera recollections strictly speaking work even if you assume that none of the Baudelaire children had yet been born - but it's a really unnatural interpretation to assume the Baudelaire parents would go on and on for years, to their own children, about an event their own associates are ashamed of. It makes far more sense to assume that the children were around and the Baudelaire parents thus had no choice but to pretend nothing was wrong. One of my favourite aspects of TPP is that the teachers do nothing to conceal their crimes; it's hilarious. I increasingly take the point of view that something must have gone badly wrong at the opera. It's just too jarring otherwise. As far as colors go, each spine color is used twice (technically) for the HarperCollins editions. Blue - TBB, TCC Red - TRR, TEE Green - TWW, TGG Purple - TMM, TPP (The Pony Party) Black/Gray (I consider these colors closely related) - TAA, TVV Orange - THH, TPP Brown - TSS, TE I think this is a little bit broad; no colour is truly reused, as each chosen shade is unique; it's just that some are a bit similar. It's the same for Egmont. Most of the spine colours, especially early on, appear to be fairly arbitrary, but towards the end of the series they become easier to connect to the storyline and setting. I'm still confused about the difference between a safe place and a headquarters. 667 Dark Avenue, the Versailles Post Office, etc, were all explicitly said to be headquarters in TUA, and none of them are brought up here. But functionally, don't safe places fill the same role as a headquarters would? I presume that a headquarters is set up to accommodate a large number of volunteers and their administrative and training functions, whereas a safe place is merely a good place to hide. Ernest's villainy is also a problem for the idea that Dewey's existence is a secret. I think most attempts to explain this suggest that his family loyalties are far stronger than his organisational loyalties; Ernest is quite an intriguing character... more or less by accident. It's my opinion that the various allusions to J.S. leave at least one person outstanding. I wouldn't normally refer to the Netflix series in these discussions, but the fact that they actually took the suggestion of somebody disguising themselves as Jacques Snicket and tied it to Olaf was really the best way of handling this, and I'd be happy for it to be the canon answer (not that it is, of course). The context of the conversation makes it clear that the second and third managers are the same individual, at least - although I suppose you could argue that one of the other managers was eavesdropping on the second manager and then impersonated him. I wonder if an answer was actually intended? I recall reading this suggestion, and like it; it ties events back to TSS and TGG, and gives the villains their own spies in the staff - which contributes to the overall atmosphere and themes of the book. How could the Baudelaires have cracked the code by ear? Concentration and immense practice, perhaps, since you could say the same thing about the real Sebald movies; people in the Averse have a level of skill in such matters that real people do not, I think. As for the message itself, aye, it's "in or enemies", but one adjacent word either way can produce "associates or enemies" or "in or out". It would be... bizarre if it was an intentional "mistake", and yet that lines up strangely well. It's worth noting that one of the examples of Sebald Code in the U.A. is technically wrong, though. 'Hitherto unknown sibling' could also refer to Lemony, a hitherto unknown sibling of Jacques and Kit. I think it's clearly meant to make you think of a hitherto unknown sibling of the Baudelaires, but nothing comes of this, so it's probably a tease. It's an intriguing theory, though. Perhaps Beatrice did have a child with Lemony, but they are not Violet, but someone hidden? Fanfics have been written with this premise, though I can't say I'm a fan. The description of the Beatrice's figurehead makes me wonder about its origins before the Baudelaire parents got it - the octopus makes me think of Ink, Inc, and the fact that it is attacking a human makes me think of the Inhumane Society. Possibly Olaf customised the boat since acquiring it, since The End makes it clear that Bertrand built the boat. (As you later conclude.) My reading is the "your husband" line, with Geraldine's surprise being that Esmé doesn't know what her own husband is up to. Also, this is the scene that's written as if the reporter character from THH and TCC had been identified as Geraldine Julienne all along, when in fact this is the first occasion on which the two are linked; the Baudelaires shouldn't have known her name. Sir's line here is confusing, as he starts out gesturing to a supply-side problem before switching to a demand-side problem. Perhaps the lumbermill's increasing struggle to fulfil orders is the reason why they haven't had any big orders for a while? '"As a teacher, I don't earn enough money to purchase any valuables, so I had to resort to a life of crime."' (p131) The Snicket Sleuth theorises that Kit got Mrs Bass to steal the Baudelaire fortune so the Baudelaires would have to join VFD. I think if you believe all of their theories about Kit, she becomes a really terrible person, which makes TE lose a lot of emotional potency. It's already been established that Esme and Olaf are throwing a cocktail party, while there's no suggestion that members of 'noble' VFD have been involved in this process, though there must have been some level of manipulation on their part to get the villains to the hotel in time for the trial. Overall, I think it makes the most sense to say that Mrs Bass' bank robbery was something she did of her own accord. I don't like saying it, because I have a lot of respect for thedoctororwell, but... there's a reason I stopped bothering to read The Snicket Sleuth's theories. They are pure fanfiction, alienated from the text. It's been suggested (and Netflix brings this out) that Esmé planned to serve literal crow for her cocktail party hors d'oeuvres; so this could be a roundabout way of informing Hal of the crow-assassinating direction Esmé's plans have taken. I also cite the Kevin theory above, and the allusion to an ambidextrous person seems tailor-made to bait us into thinking that it's Kevin only for us to reconsider when we learn later that Dewey shares this characteristic. It's not necessarily clear that all three incidents happened literally at the stroke of three, and may just have been in the general period of hours afterwards; perhaps Dewey saw something else? Incidentally, it's been proposed that, as a matter of symmetry, one of Frank and Ernest is right-handed and the other left-handed. Good catch; I'm sure this must be the allusion being made. It's essentially necessary to just make stuff up to join the dots between TGG and TPP as regards the sugar bowl, so I suppose you could invent whatever you wanted. I'm not entirely sure why Handler leaves a gap. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 24, 2019 18:51:49 GMT -5
I presume that a headquarters is set up to accommodate a large number of volunteers and their administrative and training functions, whereas a safe place is merely a good place to hide. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, Mr Poe does mention that she is a reporter for The Daily Punctilio at the end of TGG. I guess the Baudelaires shouldn't necessarily have assumed she was the same one who was at Heimlich Hospital and Caligari Carnival, but it's not that surprising that they would connect the dots. I hadn't read TUA when I read TPP for the first time, and I didn't find it confusing or anything. I think a lot of adult Snicket fans tend to subscribe to fan theories that put the 'good' side of the schism in as negative a light as possible. I like these theories up to a point, but if you believe all of them, you really don't have any likeable characters left. Chapter Eight
'the surviving members of the family have changed their names and are working in smaller, less glamorous inns.' (p175) Doesn't Olaf later say he's killed all their family members? I guess there's the younger Beatrice, but it doesn't seem like Lemony should know about her at this point. Maybe Olaf just wasn't successful in killing all the surviving Denouements - he missed Dewey, after all. I like the explanation of the denouement of a story, just at the exact point of the denouement of the series. Having said that, Lemony's examples aren't all that good. For all of the stories he mentions, he claims that the established ending is the denouement, and then adds on a whole new finale that kills off all the characters. Here, we're starting to notice the more overt problems with VFD. So far, the Baudelaires have thought of them as a noble institution that can help them out of their predicament, but now we see this isn't necessarily the case. '"Before the schism," Dewey said, "V.F.D. was like a public library. Anyone could join us and have access to all of the information we'd acquired."' (p179) I'm not sure this fits with other accounts we hear of pre-schism VFD. Admittedly, we really don't hear much at all about that time, but if it had been so perfect, why would the schism even have happened in the first place? It makes more sense to assume it was secretive even then, which could have been one of the factors that caused its members to argue. Of course, even now, VFD seems to operate under the assumption that anyone who's smart and well-read enough to discover the organisation's secrets can become a member, but in practice, it doesn't do a very good job of facilitating this. That might well have been an issue even before the schism. Then, Dewey was very young when the schism occurred - anything he knows about what it was like beforehand would just be what older members had told him about it, and they might not necessarily have been honest. So, Dewey's parents died in a fire immediately after their sons were taken away from them - or 'recruited', if you're going to put a euphemistic spin on it. This brings to mind the Sinister Duo's scheme from TSS - if they burn down the Snow Scouts' homes, they can brainwash the children into giving them all their money, and also ensure they don't have any choice but to work for them. Since this happened to Dewey's parents at around the same time the schism was occurring, could this practice predate that? Of course, it couldn't have happened uniformly throughout pre-schism VFD - we know from TEE that Lemony has met one of his grandfathers at least - but, as the Snicket Sleuth theorises, disagreement about this could be one good reason for the start of the schism. '"With each generation, the schism gets worse."' (p181) This line helps explain a lot, like how relatively 'together' the organisation seems in TUA and ATWQ. Also, despite any contradictions it might have caused, I do think Handler probably always intended to make the schism more complex than how it is presented in TUA, and to move away from the idea that Olaf is the root of all evil. '"You were taken into the custody of Count Olaf."' (p181) Huh. This suggests that Olaf tried to recruit the Baudelaires in much the same way the Sinister Duo did the Snow Scouts. Could there be any truth in this? I actually don't think Olaf set the Baudelaire fire, but certainly everything up to this point in the series implies that he did, and given what Dewey knows about the Baudelaire parents and Olaf, it makes sense that he might think of Olaf as the perpetrator. Then, although Olaf in TBB doesn't seem to have any interest in telling the children about VFD, he does use them to work on any and all menial tasks he doesn't want to do himself, which is not dissimilar to the way the Snow Scouts are treated. Presumably he'd eventually have had them working as members of his troupe, and they'd have found out more as they started to help him with VFD-related schemes. '"We caused those accidents at the lumbermill. We're responsible for the destruction of the hospital."' (p188) Huh? The Baudelaires didn't do anything wrong at the mill! Klaus might have helped injure Charles' foot, and hurt Phil's leg, but considering he was hypnotised at the time I don't think he can be blamed for that. They also had nothing to do with the destruction of the hospital, although, as I've already said a couple of times, they might have been responsible for some people getting injured. Still, that's not what Klaus is regretting here. 'I am crying has I type this, and it is not because of the onions that someone is slicing in the next room, or because of the wretched curry he is planning on making with them.' (p189) Hal? Of course, it doesn't need to be him, but it could be. 'we can ask for an extra sugar cube in our coffees in the morning' (p190) - Except no one does in this series, and if they do, it's assumed to be code instead of just asking for sugar. 'their closest friends were high in the sky, in a self-sustaining hot air mobile home, battling eagles and a terrible henchman who had hooks instead of hands,' (p191) Given what we find out about Fernald's actions later on in the book, it seems very unlikely that he would be attacking the SSHAMH, especially since it was the Sinister Duo, not Olaf, who were masterminding this plan. Maybe they too have a hook-handed henchman. '"Olaf won't dare unleash the Medusoid Mycelium unless he gets his hands on the sugar bowl,"' (p199) This is one of the few points in the series that suggest a Netflix-like solution to the question of what's in the sugar bowl, though I suppose this statement could make sense regardless of what the sugar bowl contains, since Olaf would need to leave the hotel immediately after exposing everyone to the MM, and he wouldn't want to leave the hotel if he didn't have the sugar bowl. I love the way the clock is interspersed with the dialogue here. Chapter Nine
Why does Olaf think Frank would hand the Baudelaires over? Olaf pointing out the failings of the 'noble' people in the Baudelaires' lives feels like an important moment, thematically. Mr Poe is at the hotel to investigate a bank robbery? Presumably the one perpetrated by Mrs Bass. '"There are no truly noble people in this world." "Our parents," Sunny said fiercely.' (p211) Olaf has taken so much from the Baudelaires since they became orphans. Conventional authority has failed them, they're starting to feel like VFD has failed them, and they feel like they've failed themselves, or at least their standards of morality. The only thing they have left to cling on to are memories of happy days with their parents. Sure, they weren't perfect - TGG proved that - but they, in the Baudelaires' minds, are still a shining example of what it means to be a truly good person. And now Olaf's about to destroy even that. They don't want to believe he is right, and yet what other alternative do they have? TE will provide a slightly more hopeful outlook, but this book is more or less an exercise in proving everything the Baudelaires previously knew to be wrong - and it's an amazingly powerful moment. '"You're the ones who should flee!" Justice Strauss said.' (p215) Huh? Nobody has previously suggested that anyone should flee. In fact, everything about what Justice Strauss says here comes off as a complete non-sequitur. The 'what else can I do?' sequence starts off sensible and gets increasingly ridiculous. Of course, Violet knows full well she shouldn't have given the harpoon gun to Carmelita, but she had know way of knowing what Carmelita was planning on doing with it, and she couldn't really have said 'no' in her role as concierge. Klaus couldn't possibly have guessed what Ernest wanted him to do with the bird-paper. Kevin, on the other hand, could easily have done something more noble with his life, although it's easy to see why he didn't feel as though he had a choice, given the discrimination we see he has faced. '"Then you know all about the sugar bowl," Esmé said, "and what's inside it. You know how important that thing was, and how many lives were lost in the quest to find it. You know how difficult it was to find a container that could hold it safely, securely and attractively. You know what it means to the Baudelaires and what it means to the Snickets. [...] And you know," she said in a terrible voice, "that it is mine."' (p221) This is the quote that most agrees with the sugar bowl just being a MacGuffin, and there being no actual answer to what's inside it - what item could possibly satisfy all these criteria? As I've already said, it makes a lot of sense to assume that certain characters have been misinformed about the sugar bowl's contents, but I don't think that can be true of Esme, considering how strongly she feels that the bowl is hers. And Dewey doesn't even debate that point. Going with my previous theory about the bowl containing evidence of the crimes of the 'noble' side of VFD - well, that would indeed seem important to both sides of the schism. The 'lives lost' bit throws me, but not as much as 'in the quest to find it'. If the sugar bowl contains any kind of evidence, it makes sense to assume this includes information about people being killed, but that doesn't necessarily square in with 'in the quest to find it'... because if the evidence is recoded on some kind of device, presumably someone would just have bought it somewhere. I guess this could be interpreted a bit more metaphorically - many lives were lost in the quest to obtain or gather the evidence, which could be seen as 'finding it'. Or maybe it refers to the way everyone has been searching for the sugar bowl. It still seems odd, though. The next sentence, about the container, is also one I find confusing, especially if we assume that multiple sugar bowls have been used by different VFD members over the years, of which there is a fair amount of evidence. Maybe this is just Esme caring about finding an 'in' sugar bowl, but it seems like the one Beatrice and Lemony stole from her was a VFD standard-issue, if it's from the same set Olaf had in his car in TSS. The 'Baudelaires and Snickets' bit makes a lot of sense if part of the evidence contained in the sugar bowl could prove that Bertrand, Beatrice and Kit killed Olaf's parents. This might not work, depending on when the night at the opera happened, but either way, if the bowl contains evidence, it could well be something that is important to all of these characters. If the sugar bowl contains something other than evidence - like horseradish, or any of the other popular theories - this speech makes even less sense. I love Esme and Olaf's breakup. Olaf's 'what else can I do?' is the most ridiculous of all. Of course he could choose not to torment the Baudelaires and Dewey. Yet, this is the first time we see him wavering in his villainy, and, as such, it is a very strong moment. This is perhaps the most enlightening glimpse we've had into Olaf's psyche the whole series. He acts the way he does because he feels he has no other choice. 'In an instant, you can change a few words in a poem by Robert Frost and communicate with your associates through a code known as Verse Fluctuation Declaration,' (p231) This seems to hark back to the beginning of TSS, where Lemony referred to a poem by Robert Frost as The Road Less Traveled when its actual title is The Road Not Taken. This would make the message 'not taken', which could possibly refer to the sugar bowl? Also, this must be a retcon, but it is an incredibly clever one. 'you can realize where something is hidden and decide whether you are going to retrieve it or let it stay hidden,' (p231) Presumably, Lemony has figured out the location of the sugar bowl here. 'it was not [Poe's] destiny to be slain by a harpoon, at least not on this particular evening.' (p233) I don't think this has to mean he was killed by a harpoon gun later, but it's also a clue that he might have been. '"We failed you," Sunny said. Dewey shook his head one more time, this time very wildly in violent disagreement.' (p236) Dewey's absolutely right here - his death was not at all the Baudelaires' fault, and they in fact did everything in their power to stop it. |
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Post by Dante on May 25, 2019 3:52:46 GMT -5
'the surviving members of the family have changed their names and are working in smaller, less glamorous inns.' (p175) Doesn't Olaf later say he's killed all their family members? I guess there's the younger Beatrice, but it doesn't seem like Lemony should know about her at this point. Maybe Olaf just wasn't successful in killing all the surviving Denouements - he missed Dewey, after all. This particular line appears to be situated post-TPP in history, meaning it can also include Frank and/or Ernest. Admittedly, them plus Beatrice is only three people total, with a lot of assumptions about what they get up to afterwards that doesn't really seem in the spirit of the open ending of the book; so I'm just going to say that Olaf was wrong about having polished off the family. Or perhaps Frank and Ernest also have children? The main objection to this characterisation of V.F.D. and the schism is that it seems to have been moved way back relative to the U.A.; one solution to this puts the original V.F.D. as described here back to a sort of golden age of infancy; then we have the original schism that pushed them underground; then we have the more recent schism alluded to in the series up until now which split the remaining organisation into two. For all that the series does get more ambiguous in its conception of morality, I think Handler puts his fingers on the scales a lot of the time; as we'll see in the aftermath of Dewey's death. I don't think anyone really understands what was meant to be going on here. It looks like a very dramatic example of changing plans - as, I would argue, is the very fact that Handler ditched Fiona and Fernald off-screen, which is not the direction the conclusion of TGG appeared to be pointing towards. I simply don't believe that TVV, TSS and TGG were written with the idea in mind that we would never see the Quagmiers and Fiona again. Aye, I remember this being pointed out in the past. Definitely reads like an editing error; there was once a reference to flight which she was responding to, and the original line got cut without her response being amended. Part of what's difficult about Esmé's statement here is the way she shifts across timelines and objects. She seems to be talking both about the bowl and the object inside it, about a time before the object was contained and a time after. It's a statement which is at once very limiting and tremendously open. In retrospect, I'm convinced that with this line Handler had abandoned the idea of resolving the sugar bowl secret on-screen; either that, or he was once again being far too reckless with his red herrings. I hadn't thought of this as a silent correction to the opening of TSS, but that's quite clever. In the aftermath of TPP, and before The End, some people did indeed argue passionately that Mr. Poe was doomed to be harpooned in the final book. Not that you'd know it; the way the text will subsequently refer to Dewey's death, you'd think the Baudelaires had aimed the gun at him themselves and pulled the trigger. |
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Post by Foxy on May 25, 2019 8:14:01 GMT -5
I like the explanation of the denouement of a story, just at the exact point of the denouement of the series. Having said that, Lemony's examples aren't all that good. For all of the stories he mentions, he claims that the established ending is the denouement, and then adds on a whole new finale that kills off all the characters. Agreed and agreed. The first time I read this book, it was my favorite. When I reread it probably close to a decade later, I forgot the trial was a complete sham, and I was disappointed, but the entire book really fits the description of denouement, and now I really appreciate it. Also, I find the new endings of the stories terribly funny. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 25, 2019 17:34:46 GMT -5
For all that the series does get more ambiguous in its conception of morality, I think Handler puts his fingers on the scales a lot of the time; as we'll see in the aftermath of Dewey's death. Something I've found on this reread that I never really noticed before, is that the Baudelaires tend to feel guilty about things they couldn't have helped, and then don't seem to feel guilty enough about things that genuinely were their faults. I hadn't really noticed how jarring the line is before, but it actually made me laugh out loud because it's just so random. Olaf says that food and drink are the most important part of a social occasion, Dewey argues that its actually conversation, and Justice Strauss suddenly bursts out '"You're the ones who should flee!"'. I hadn't thought of it this way before, but you're right, the way the statement seems to refer to multiple different things is definitely the main reason it's so confusing. I agree that this is the point Handler decided not to reveal what was in the sugar bowl, though he seems to have been heading in that direction from the beginning of TGG. I wouldn't have noticed it if it hadn't been brought up in previous reread threads, but it works really well as an extra detail for the sharp-eyed reader to catch. Chapter Ten
I love the 'my mother' gag. There's a similar one in TCC, but I think that person is a man, while the person doing it here is said to be a woman. I love the scene with the taxi driver - it's one of my favourites in the whole series. 'the Baudelaire orphans were not standing in general.' (p246) This sentiment is repeated later - it ties in with the idea that the right thing to do changes from situation to situation. I think in the THH thread I contrasted the taxi driver scene with the one where the Baudelaires leave the Last Chance General Store, saying that this scene showed the consequences of the Baudelaires choosing to stay and be dealt with by the law, but they don't really actually decide anything here. They're still deliberating about whether or not they should go when Mr Poe swoops in. The amount of detail Lemony is able to give about the taxi driver's life definitely makes me think it was him. I didn't spot this the first couple of times I read the book though - it felt like such a mind-blowing moment when I finally figured it out. Who was hiding in the trunk of the taxi? Quite possibly the same woman who picked the sugar bowl out of the pond. Would the driver have known she was there? If the driver is indeed Lemony, I would say yes. 'I do know [...] the ingredients of the sandwich tucked into the glove department,' (p251) Presumably the same crucial coded sandwich Lemony was trying to make in TSS. 'the small item that sat on the passenger seat, still damp from its hiding place,' (p251) The last time the sugar bowl makes a direct appearance in the narrative. I love how easy this is to skim over. After all the fanfare that's been made about it, it leaves the story in such a quiet way - a way it actually took me a few rereads to notice. The monogrammed napkin could be another clue that the driver is Lemony, although these sound like they are possibly the Duchess of Winnipeg's. 'I have no way of knowing [...] if it would have been better for my sister had she decided to join the children at the Hotel Denouement instead of waterskiing toward Captain Widdershins, and later, waterskiing away from him,' (p251-2_ This really doesn't fit with what we find out about Widdershins and Kit in TE. Maybe she originally had some difficulties meeting up with him before eventually joining him on the Carmelita? Also, I love the passage about how Lemony has no way of knowing certain things. It fits in so well with the unfathomable quality of this scene specifically, and the book as a whole. '"[Count Olaf] was murdered right in my hometown!"' (p254) Hang on, Mrs Morrow should know that Olaf isn't actually dead and is a criminal. Maybe she's just forgotten. It seems like Hal has forgiven the Baudelaires, which retroactively makes their interactions in THH less painful. It makes it easier to accept the scene as the last we'll see of the character. Has the word 'bootless' been defined before, in a previous book? I want to say that it has, but maybe I'm getting confused. Chapter Eleven
'If you were to put this book down and travel to the pond that now reflects nothing but a few burnt scraps of wood and the empty skies,' (p266) From this, we can work out that something has gone wrong with the VFD gathering, though the obvious thing to assume is that Olaf set the fire and possibly that it had something to do with the cocktail party. 'you could read an account of an interpretation of sausages that went horribly wrong and led to the destruction of a very important bathyscaphe, all because I mistakenly thought the sausages were arranged in the shape of a K when actually the waiter had been trying to make an R.' (p266) I think this incident is alluded to again in TE, but it seems likeLemony thought he was supposed to do something for Kit, when actually it was supposed to be for R. How this led to the destruction of a bathyscaphe is unclear. It appears as though 'tea should be bitter as wormwood' is, like asking for sugar, a VFD coded phrase, as apologising for there being no sugar might also be. Possibly, it's a way of telling abc ally that you are going to be recording your enemy? 'I'm sorry there's no sugar' might mean that the sugar bowl at that location does not contain any information. In that case, Frank or Ernest must realise that Klaus doesn't know the real meaning of what he's saying. 'Justice Strauss was there, too, tucked in the crook of Olaf's arm the way you might carry an umbrella if both your hands were full.' (p293) This is hard to picture. The Netflix version of this scene makes more sense, where Olaf is just sort of corralling Justice Strauss around with the harpoon gun. I would say this is the best chapter ending in the series. Even if it's not much of a stretch to assume the trial wouldn't work out as hoped, the reappearance of the Sinister Duo is the kind of plot development that really is impossible to guess. The Baudelaires have been shown over and over again that they cannot trust authority figures like Mr Poe. But, so far, those in positions of power have almost always been well-meaning. Even if they have been petty and cruel, like Sir or Nero or the Council of the Elders, they haven't been truly malicious. Here, though, we see just how corrupt the whole system is. And, we are forced to question, if VFD are willing to put all their faith in such a gambit, what does that say about them? |
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Post by Dante on May 26, 2019 3:52:08 GMT -5
I would say this is the best chapter ending in the series. Even if it's not much of a stretch to assume the trial wouldn't work out as hoped, the reappearance of the Sinister Duo is the kind of plot development that really is impossible to guess. The Baudelaires have been shown over and over again that they cannot trust authority figures like Mr Poe. But, so far, those in positions of power have almost always been well-meaning. Even if they have been petty and cruel, like Sir or Nero or the Council of the Elders, they haven't been truly malicious. Here, though, we see just how corrupt the whole system is. And, we are forced to question, if VFD are willing to put all their faith in such a gambit, what does that say about them? It's an amazing plot twist, that's for sure. You can just about see it coming, though I've never heard of anyone having done so; which is part of what makes a good twist, in my opinion. We know the sinister duo have been at Hotel Denouement, we know they have a plan - and we know there are two other judges of the High Court. But because the sinister duo aren't really mentioned in the early chapters, and because the other two judges aren't really presented at first as being that important - we overlook them; and thus, the connection. What I also like about this plot point, though, is that it's absolutely the worst-case scenario, the most unfortunate thing that could possibly happen. Before this, you can still just about believe that the Baudelaires will one day be cleared and Count Olaf brought to justice, and that there'll be a conventional ending - but the sinister duo on the High Court torpedoes those hopes. I think that we as readers sometimes don't appreciate just how disastrous this is... I think it's to the Baudelaires' credit that they come to terms with this event so quickly, actually; in a way, I think they must almost have seen it coming, because from their perspective it must be the culmination of a terrible logic ruling their lives. And so they react instantly - abandoning the very idea of justice and resolving on escaping. Justice Strauss still hopes for the best, we learn; but she hasn't been through what the Baudelaires have. This was the last chance for them to regain some trust in the system, and the system blew it. |
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Post by veryferociousdrama on May 26, 2019 11:51:54 GMT -5
The opening chapter is very intriguing. I imagine the Villains behind to be Olaf and co, but that goes against what Kit says. Who are the other Volunteers who have been observing the Baudelaires? Larry, Prufrock Librarian, the ones at Heimlich, Gift Caravan Lady? I really like the idea that both sides of the Schism are bigger than we realize. I find it slightly strange that the Baudelaire parents, as rich as they were, only went on one weekend away in fourteen years, and stranger that they didn't appear to leave the Hotel. And if the venue is known to the Snickets, and Eleanora Poe was there, it appears that they were there on VFD business. Why is it VFD law that picnics travel separately from Volunteers? If there were multiple sugar bowls around, and there's only one left to supply whatever it supplies, hence its rarity, it could just be to honour tradition. Kit's feeling that everything will go wrong is an explaination of why Quigley joins Hector and co. It probably would have made life easier for Quigley to have joined the Baudelaires. I've re-read the sequence in Chapter Three with Frank, Ernest and Dewey several times, but can't get my head around it. I suspect that Dewey is last, unless he's lying. How does Violet suddenly seem to know Geraldine's name? She's described very differently to the journalist from THH and TCC. I like to think the gum she chews is the same type at Lucky Smells and the Queequeg. I know we talked about this in the TMM thread, but I still don't think Charles is a member of VFD. I think he's aware of the organization, and communicates with them, but that's all. As he's still with Sir, he seems too much of a threat to be a full blown Volunteer, merely an ally. I suppose Phil and to a certain extent Hal could be described like this too, but certainly not Jerome and Justice, they're definitely Volunteers. Seeing as Colette is around when the triplet comes in, I guess that's Ernest. Chapter Six is clearly Dewey, so Chapter Four's Frank. In all fairness, neither Frank or Ernest seem that evil or good, they seem more in the middle. Mrs. Bass has definitely made her bank robbery by this point, with all the swag, while there's a possibility she made another. But in any case, I'd prefer that section of TUA to be before TPP, or how could Ms K be Kit? Hal seems to have a lot of respect for JS. If Hal lost his home in the Heimlich fire, that makes his story even sadder. But the fact that despite it being less than a fortnight since the fire, the fact he openly defends and is angered when it's suggested by others that the Baudelaires are criminals just goes to show he's very noble indeed. A taxi driver is alluded to several times throughout the book. Are they all Lemony? I like to think they are, and that he dropped off and collected several people throughout the course of the day. The woman and the chemist are most likely Colette and Esme, and the man Kevin. The woman in the diving suit is Josephine/R. It makes a somewhat refreshing change for somebody to know Bertrand better than Beatrice. The fact that little is known of Bertrand makes him very intriguing. So it seems that Frank and Ernest both survive the fire, which is to be expected, as they seem to know their Hotel's secrets very well. Of course this could also be a reference to, say, some cousins or something. Pre-Schism sounds like a better time for society as a whole, rather than just Volunteers. If that is the case, then I imagine the Schism to be as a result to events on a wider scale, like politics, which just split up the organization. The fact that Justice joined VFD explains why Poe never let the Baudelaires go to her, even when he was desperate. He couldn't if he couldn't find her! Though he also seems idiotic enough to forget. Jerome clearly wrote this book very quickly! Though he could have started writing it whilst the Baudelaires were with him, or even before. It's very much surprising that Dewey didn't just tell Kit what the plan was. It certainly would have saved time and effort. Though if Kit did know, it would have been short on time if she explained. I doubt she knows who JS is, but we just don't know. Despite her being a fan favourite, we really don't know that much about her, or see her that much. Count Olaf appeared for the penultimate time? How about the next day, and when they visit him on the coastal shelf in TE? This could just mean the penultimate time they see him first in any particular setting. How on Earth could Olaf have killed Dewey's parents at such a young age? We do know he has a thing for lying though, so it looks like he's just taking credit for any villainous deed. The conversation about associates is interesting, as it puts a definite end to the question Violet asked in TSS regarding the idea of all of the guardians were in VFD, so this rules Sir and Nero out. Can Mr. Remora really count as Olaf's associate? He seems pleasant enough, his only misdeed is giving up on the Baudelaires, which is what we've just forgiven Jerome for doing. If Dewey is ambidextrous, then I like to imagine that Frank is right and Ernest is left handed, or the other way round. I feel sorry for the Freaks here, they're clearly victims of circumstance. They don't seem into the whole villainous thing, and if they hadn't gone with Olaf, they'd probably have died, if they weren't so overexcited it was the first positive attention they ever had. OK, here's my grand master theory about the sugar bowl. I believe that Esme and Beatrice grew up together. There used to be lots of sugar bowls, but they all got destroyed, except one. Esme's parents used to be noble Volunteers, and worked with the Snicket parents. They died, and she inherited the bowl, whether or not she realized it was the last one. The Snickets, who knew this, manipulate Beatrice, Esme's friend, to get it back for them. Which leads to the poison dart incident. I don't believe Olaf's parents were involved in VFD, and Esme views Beatrice wrongly. She then starts the Baudelaire fire as a form of revenge. Justice's line about being a horse thief makes her sound quite old. I wish we knew a bit more about this period. How did Bruce escape from the Sinister Duo? Then again, was he even actually captured? I can't see any use he could have, so maybe they just let him go. Admittedly, it would have been easier to kill him, but he seems completely oblivious to VFD, like Poe. People have suggested online before that the Villains have a rule where they don't kill people who aren't aware of what's going on, which sounds a bit strange. Or he could just be another person called Bruce. The woman with her mother is probably the one taking a bath in TEE. There has been great debate over whether or not Lemony has started on his research on the Baudelaire case by this point. I'm not entirely sure, but I think he wants to take the Baudelaires away. An additional option is a theory to do with Violet's parentage... If Lemony has been on the run for this long, is he now using Dewey's library to hide evidence of his crimes and clear his name? Beatrice II could also be using it, if somebody's put an account of the trial in there? It seems that Violet has encountered Warty from TBB, and Klaus has encountered the person from TEE (can't for the life of me remember who) who called Jerome Jerry straight away. Funny to think who else could be at the trial. Given the sound of the evidence being given, it sounds like a patient from Heimlich, Milt, Isadora's tutor, Sally, an actor in The Marvelous Marriage, somebody from the Esme Squalor Fan Club/Cafe Salmonella waiter, Fiona's biological father, somebody attending The Marvelous Marriage, a Lucky Smells worker and Ramona Quimby are also there. Isn't this game fun? One thing I just simply don't understand is how Olaf could have been made an orphan less than a couple of years before, when it seems he's in his 50s by this point. One loophole I've found is if Beatrice and Bertrand went to see La Forza del Destina twice, once a very long time ago where they made Olaf an orphan, once again just before they died. Olaf seems pretty desperate by this point, which is strange, especially as he still thinks he has the Duo on side. The Freaks seem to have left him by this point in events. The Duo, Frank, Ernest and Jerome are the most likely to survive. Mrs. Bass, Morrow and Lesko may have, and unfortunately Poe would have to to be harpooned. After years of smoke, I doubt Sir would be badly affected by fire, and Charles probably survived if they were together. Esme and Carmelita are intelligent enough to see through Olaf, unless Esme's obsession is enough not to do so. Nero and Mr. Remora probably died, and the Freaks seem to be escaping off the birdpaper, which would have led them through to the laundry room, so death. Bruce seems to have died too, with Crow and Guitar, and Justice definitely did. Hal's poor vision may have been a help or a hinderance. The section about what might have happened always reminds me of the ABBA song Knowing Me Knowing You. Aaaaaand that's over an hour of typing done!  |
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Post by Agathological on May 26, 2019 15:52:09 GMT -5
Chapter Eight
'the surviving members of the family have changed their names and are working in smaller, less glamorous inns.' (p175) Doesn't Olaf later say he's killed all their family members? I guess there's the younger Beatrice, but it doesn't seem like Lemony should know about her at this point. Maybe Olaf just wasn't successful in killing all the surviving Denouements - he missed Dewey, after all. I take this quote as stating that Frank and Ernest survive and become hoteliers at different hotels. |
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Post by Carrie E. Abelabudite on May 26, 2019 18:25:23 GMT -5
I find it slightly strange that the Baudelaire parents, as rich as they were, only went on one weekend away in fourteen years, and stranger that they didn't appear to leave the Hotel. And if the venue is known to the Snickets, and Eleanora Poe was there, it appears that they were there on VFD business. I don't think it was necessarily the only trip they took - although it possibly was the only trip they took as a whole family, including Sunny. If the hotel was a sort of destination in itself with a pool and a lot of other activities, it isn't that strange that the Baudelaires would have wanted to just stay there throughout the weekend. I guess it's possible it has some VFD connections, but clearly it's not a safe place, and it does, according to Lemony, survive the series. We are told in Chapter Eleven that the taxi driver who offers the Baudelaires a ride is the same man who took Justice Strauss and Jerome Squalor to the hotel, but I don't know if he would have made any other journeys there that day. I'm pretty sure he says he only started writing it after the Baudelaires left his care. So yes, he must have written the whole thing in about a week. One wonders how thoroughly it would have been researched. Yeah, Mr Remora seems fairly reasonable throughout the book. She is described as an 'older woman' in TBB - I suppose she must be in her sixties at least. It would be interesting to find out how she transitioned into being a justice of the High Court. Huh. I'd forgotten he got captured along with the Snow Scouts. The Sinister Duo must just have let him go. Maybe they thought that if they killed him/kept him in their clutches, he would be replaced as Snow Scout troop leader by someone more competent, so it actually would be in their interest to keep him in the same position so they can 'recruit' more children in the future. Wasn't the person in TEE a man, though? Maybe he's the same person who talks about his mother in TCC. One thing I really like about the idea of the taxi driver being Lemony, especially if he has already been researching their lives, is that we start to wonder just how closely he has been following the Baudelaires throughout the events of the series. Considering how similar the description of him is to the taxi driver in TWW, it seems like he's been right on their heels the whole time. Yet, this is the first time he's tried to help them. Going off his frequent admissions of his own cowardice, it appears as though his past in VFD has left him too scared of making the wrong move to act most of the time. I hadn't thought of this before - I like these ideas! I agree about the Sinister Duo, Frank, and Ernest. I think Jerome and Mrs Bass probably would have survived, but maybe not Mrs Morrow or Mr Lesko, or Mr Remora or Nero. I actually do think Sir would have died, and, as a result, Charles also would have, since he wouldn't have wanted to leave Sir. I'd like to think Hal survived and is the one who is cutting onions near Lemony. Esme might have survive - certainly Lemony seems to think she could still be around in TBL - but I think Carmelita probably died. As for Poe, if not for the line about the harpoon, I would definitely say he died. Maybe he somehow got shot down as he was trying to leave the hotel, although his conversation with he Baudelaires doesn't make it sound as though he's trying to leave. I would say that Hugo, Colette, and Kevin probably would have made it out, because it's likely they would have known the true identity of the judges, and thought that Olaf would want to burn down the hotel, but maybe not. As for Justice Strauss, I said this in the TPP Netflix episode thread, but I always thought she died until Season 3 came out. Then, I realised that if she hadn't survived, Lemony wouldn't really have any way of finding out what happened on the roof. I guess, though, he might not have written the chapter until after he found A Series Of Unfortunate Events on the Island, so it could go either way. I agree about Bruce, the crow-hat woman and the bearded man with the guitar, and I would add Geraldine Julienne to the list of people who are likely dead. Still, you could just about argue it either way for anybody. In general, I think people who believed the Baudelaires are likely to have survived, while people who wouldn't have are likely to have died. I love the passage about the hypothetical things the people at the hotel might be doing. Chapter Twelve
I love this chapter illustration. 'The finger had been broken a long time ago, in a dispute over a game of backgammon,' (p295-6) Possibly the same game that had Lemony hiding under a table, though this causes some timeline-related confusion. If Mrs Bass stole the Baudelaire fortune specifically, her line here is very funny, since she would be trying to blame them for stealing their own money. Again, the clock is interspersed with dialogue in an interesting way, though here the effect this has is a bit more hopeful, suggesting that those present for the trial actually are capable of making judgments for themselves. The interaction between Olaf and the Baudelaires here is a real contrast to their relationship at the beginning of TBB. Then, he was able to terrorise them; now, they're on much more equal footing, power-wise. Of course, part of the reason they are in this situation is due to their moral ambiguity and awareness thereof, yet in this moment, we realise that, to an extent, they've also changed for the better. Certainly, they're much stronger emotionally than they were when they first became orphans. I wonder when Beatrice told Olaf he would fail, and what about. Presumably nothing as dramatic as him attempting to poison people. '"[the Sinister Duo] passed along all that information to me, so I could catch up with the orphans!"' (p305) I think I've said it before, but this statement makes very little sense. For one thing, it negates Olivia's role, but more importantly, we know from earlier in the book that Justice Strauss didn't know where the Baudelaires were throughout the majority of the series, which she spent trying to track them down. Okay, I've changed my mind: this is the best chapter ending in the series. Or, actually, I don't know if it's better than the previous chapter, but I would say it is just as good. It seems like the Baudelaires coming up with the idea of burning a building down is the logical endpoint of their moral ambiguity arc, and as much as you would hope it wouldn't actually transpire, there's a sense of inevitability in this scene as much as it is deeply disappointing to the reader who realises the VFD gathering will never go ahead. And the final line, 'all three Baudelaire orphans felt as if they were falling' (p317) feels so apt. The final few chapters of this book are very much the rug being pulled from under the Baudelaires' feet; it's their world being turned upside down again and again. Chapter Thirteen
This has got to be the coolest example of the mirror text - I love the way it fits with the illustration. We see here that the Baudelaires are willing to do anything to protect their siblings, no questions asked. It's a touching moment of loyalty, but it also makes their attitude toward Fiona even more unfair. Would they really need extra kindling in this situation? If you poured flammable chemicals over a sheet, I think you could probably just set the sheet on fire without using anything else. Of course, burning Jerome's book really adds to the tragedy of the situation. As it goes up in smoke, so too do any hopes of proving Olaf's guilt before the authorities. Even though the Baudelaires were the ones who suggested setting the fire, I still think this is less bad than Caligari Carnival, since a fire is difficult to ignore and therefore easier to escape from than the MM. With that said, I don't think signalling VFD is a particularly good motive to destroy othe hotel. '"Whatever you do, don't leave the hotel!"' (p333) Wow, this is a really dark moment for Olaf - you'd expect him to behave this way towards most of the characters, but that he is treating Esme like this drives home just how callous he can be. '"I'm still in charge of the Baudelaires' affairs, and their parents' fort-"' (p334) Taking this in conjunction with Olaf's line earlier about Poe being at the hotel to investigate a bank robbery leads me to think it was the Baudelaire fortune Mrs Bass stole. I really like this idea, because the fortune has been driving the plot from the very beginning of the series, with Olaf coming up with increasingly convoluted schemes to get his hands on it, and in the end, such a minor character as Mrs Bass is able to just walk into the bank and come out with the money. As with the sugar bowl, it's a fittingly anticlimactic way to wrap up that particular story arc. 'They saw Geraldine Julienne, who was using her microphone the way some blind people use a cane,' (p335) Wait, what? I always imagined her microphone as being small, but this suggests it's on some sort of stand. How could she carry it around with her everywhere if that's the case? 'they heard [...] the bearded man sing a song to the woman with the crow-shaped hat,' (p337) One time, I somehow read 'the bearded man' as 'the man with the beard but no hair', and found this to be a very strange passage indeed. Sunny biting 'the hand of justice' (P349) is a really significant moment. The Baudelaires have known for a while that they cannot trust conventional authority, but now they realise they cannot trust VFD, either, even truly good people like Justice Strauss. And so where does that leave them? They have no other alternative but to put their faith in the least trustworthy person of all. They're in the same boat as Olaf, now, as much as they want and genuinely try to be better than him, and there's no escaping that fact. It's not just the hotel burning down, but the whole world as the Baudelaires know it. For that reason, this has to be my favourite ending in the series. The Richard Wright quote also fits really well with what's happening. I haven't done timeline notes for the past couple of books, so here goes: the Baudelaires spend two night in the mountains in TSS, TGG also lasts two nights (though either they must have slept through a whole day or else spent a night in the grotto), and they spend one night at the hotel. To My Kind Editor
A very brief note, but one that works well. Though I have to say, in my copy at least, the writing is pretty pixelated. |
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Post by Agathological on May 26, 2019 18:53:25 GMT -5
'They saw Geraldine Julienne, who was using her microphone the way some blind people use a cane,' (p335) Wait, what? I always imagined her microphone as being small, but this suggests it's on some sort of stand. How could she carry it around with her everywhere if that's the case? I always imagined that she has a small microphone attached to a cassette recorder that is attached to her waist; like a Philips EL3300/00 model that came out in 1963. She is probably using it to feel for her surroundings. Lord knows why she doesn't use her hands. (Lemony saying that the Reporter/Geraldine using microphone is a little confusing in the text; I would have used tape recorder or 'the microphone of her tape recorder' instead. |
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Post by Foxy on May 27, 2019 10:23:57 GMT -5
I love the scene with the taxi driver - it's one of my favourites in the whole series. This is always the hardest part for me to read, because if I could change one thing about the series, they would GET IN THE TAXI!!! And then there would be another entire set of books. I always kind of hoped that would happen, that there would wind up being 26 books instead of thirteen, and Snicket would use every letter of the alphabet in titles. This always sounds sinister to me, why would Lemony trap a woman in his trunk. What if it was Beatrice? That's true, the townspeople do figure out DD is CO at the end of TVV. Good memonry!!! A quick search through my commonplace book says it was also defined in TMM. It's kind of funny how Snicket always talks about things being burned down in the future before they have burned down in the book. I think it's kind of funny to imagine Count Olaf holding a grown woman under one arm. The opening chapter is very intriguing. I imagine the Villains behind to be Olaf and co, but that goes against what Kit says. This reminds me, how did Esme set up shop so quickly on the roof? It seems like she's been there a while by the time Violet gets up to the roof, but they were both in the ocean not very long ago. Indeed! And yes to gift caravan lady!!! What an interesting idea. That's was I think, too. While reading Carrie's notes, I have come up with the idea that this might be Beatrice. Or maybe I read it in one of Jean Lucio's threads, and it was in my subconscious and I just remembered it. I don't want to steal his ideas if they are his. I know! I wish we had more information about him. Haha, true. 'The finger had been broken a long time ago, in a dispute over a game of backgammon,' (p295-6) Possibly the same game that had Lemony hiding under a table, though this causes some timeline-related confusion. I never caught that coincidence before! Maybe when he showed up at their mansion to burn it down while the children were at the beach? Oh man, Sunny saying "Burn down hotel." always gets me. |
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Post by Dante on May 27, 2019 13:09:35 GMT -5
I'd originally intended to write a much longer post, but in the end I think this is all I really wanted to say: To My Kind Editor
A very brief note, but one that works well. Though I have to say, in my copy at least, the writing is pretty pixelated. I don't think anybody believed, at the time they read this Kind Editor note, that it actually revealed the title of the final book. Indeed, the fact that the preceding Kind Editor letter had very specifically not given TPP's title made it seem even more unlikely that this Kind Editor letter was doing so. As a result, the majority of the fandom spent the run-up to The End believing that to be a placeholder title, like The Nameless Novel for TPP - long after an official announcement which we didn't even interpret as such! Even after the cover had been revealed, some people were convinced that the title was a fake, perhaps that the real title would be concealed on the physical book by a kind of sticker... The twist, the defiance of our expectations for the title, was too good; we didn't even realise it had happened. |
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Post by Hermes on May 27, 2019 15:50:21 GMT -5
Why would they know “contempt” from Uncle Monty taking them to the movies? (11) I've always found this line strange. Neither TRR or the script of Zombies in the Snow from TUA mention contempt. I've just discovered that 'contempt' occurs in a famous scene from Liar, Liar, starring Jim Carrey. Judge: One more word out of you, Mr Reede, and I'll hold you in contempt. Lawyer: I hold myself in contempt. Why should you be any different? Given that the movie of ASOUE came out before TPP, I suspect this is a tribute to Mr Carrey. (Trying to make in-story sense of this, with a coherent timeline, would be difficult.) (But they did go to the movies every night while they were with Monty, so it doesn't have to be from Zombies in the Snow.) |
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