Are they really dead?

[Antenora]

I realize that many of my posts in this section concern dead people and how they died, but why break a good tradition?
I've been wondering if the supposedly dead people are really dead. Monty, yes, because we saw his body. Josephine, maybe not; she could have swum to shore or been rescued. Orwell, possibly, if she was taken to the hospital quickly. Jacques might be alive, if he faked his death as part of a plan. Possibly, Olaf promised to let Jacques live if Jacques told him where the Snicket file was, and Jacques told him that it was at the hospital. And I think Beatrice is alive currently, but will die at the end of the series.

[Tay Sachs]

I am with you on that last one, Tocuna. Orwell is dead though, I think. Sawblade vs human flesh, sawblade won out. Jacques could be alive, but Lemony seems sure he is dead.

[badlee]

Intresting theory...Orwell and Monty are definitely dead, unless it was some sort of...clone, which is unlikely. Jacques might not be dead, but yeah, Lemony does think he is dead....Olaf black-mailing Jacques sounds a delightful tale.

[Antenora]

Here's my theory on Jacques:
Esme tried to poison him, but he determined that there was poison in his food without tasting it. Lemony said he could do that with cheese fondue, so I'm guessing that Jacques could do it with spongy bread and unclean water. After this scheme failed, Olaf asked Jacques where the Snicket file was, promising to spare his life. Jacques lied, knowing that it had been removed from the hospital. He then played dead for Olaf. If he's alive, I wonder where he is now. Possibly, he's at the hotel.

[M.]

I KNOW WHO DIED!!!

1) THEIR FATHER

2) JACQUES SNICKET

GO TO THE SLIPPERY SLOPE PAGES 335 & 336 (READ)

[White Wolf]

Aunt Josephine is dead, they said at the end of the book, that her life jackats were found by fisherman, with leeech bites in them and stuff, so you know shes dead

[kjlsnicket29]

Well, I think that their is a SLIGHT chance Josephine is alive, they never found her body, but I think Ike is alive for sure, and Mrs. Baud is alive.

[Ben]

kjlsnicket29 said:

Well, I think that their is a SLIGHT chance Josephine is alive, they never found her body, but I think Ike is alive for sure, and Mrs. Baud is alive.

I don`t think Aunt Josephine is alive, but I agree that Mrs.Baud is alive.

[kjlsnicket29]

swans said:

Plus just because Josephine's two life jackets were found means squat. If there's no body then in fiction that always leaves room open for the character to reappear.

I think only one of her life jackets were found, and they thought the leeches ate through it, but I think she esacaped with one of them, and went to hotel denouement, and the other was eatin by leeches, but anyways, I still agree with my theory that Josephine is alive, and it does mean squat without the body ;D

[White Wolf]

Welll, like i said, I may be wronge, she could show up in the 13th book.

[Antenora]

swans said:

I have posted theories on this subject several times.
....

We never saw Monty die .. and even though Monty was pale if his death was a fake why couldn't Olaf powder Monty's face?

I think it was in the TBBRE notes thread we talked about injecting people with some type of magical meds, and though they are technically dead they physically wake up a few hours later. My example was Gilligan's Island.. if anyone remembers that episode.

So I think it's possible with Monty/Jacques their deaths were faked this way.

For a while I suspected that Monty's body was a mannequin or wax statue, but I like the poison theory too. Ever read Romeo And Juliet? Juliet took some potion that made her fall into a deathlike sleep for a few days, but her face wasn't pale. Olaf may have given Monty such a potion and powdered his face, perhaps raiding a henchwoman's makeup kit. But if he did that, why didn't he kill Monty? Guilt? Fear for his mortal soul? Or did Monty tell him something helpful?

[kjlsnicket29]

PowderFacedWomen said:

Welll, like i said, I may be wronge, she could show up in the 13th book.

Yeah, you're right, and I COULD be wrong, too, I mean, it was just a guess/theory...lol.

[GaryBaudelaire]

I have to agree that will be good. As soon as I read Josephine in HD I thought of the scene....

Here it is:

The Baudelaire children got onto shore and walked through the warm sand. Violet's ribbon (why does it keep saying ribbon if it's one of the medical coat parts? Also, what happened to Violet's hospital clothes?) was hanging loosely off of her. Their bodies were soaked.
"I can't believe it," said Klaus.
"What?" asked Sunny.
They looked up and saw a large sign. HOTEL DENOUEMENT it said.
As they ran to the door and knocked on it someone answere that they thought they'd never see again. Uncle Monty....

Then later on they see Josephine and explain everything that happened. I'll be surprised if that's what happens. According to the B's luck, though, it most likely won't happen.

[Tullae]

Tocuna said:

For a while I suspected that Monty's body was a mannequin or wax statue, but I like the poison theory too. Ever read Romeo And Juliet? Juliet took some potion that made her fall into a deathlike sleep for a few days, but her face wasn't pale. Olaf may have given Monty such a potion and powdered his face, perhaps raiding a henchwoman's makeup kit. But if he did that, why didn't he kill Monty? Guilt? Fear for his mortal soul? Or did Monty tell him something helpful?

swans said:

Yeah but why use Shakespeare when you have Gilligan's Island? If you watch Alias they also pulled a similar stunt last Sunday with Sloane.

Maybe he didn't kill Monty because it might all just be a test, or they need Monty for later use. Monty is more than likely dead however I find it strange that we never really encounter any funerals and when we do they're fake (i.e. Lemony Snicket).

The seemingly complete lack of funerals for those people who have appeared to die throughout the series is a heartening fact indeed. Especially in Uncle Monty's case. He is one of my favourite characters, beign something of a herpetologist myself.

I find the idea that he may have been poisoned to simulate his death quite intriguing. Many scholars believe that the poison Shakespeare may have had in mind for Juliet was henbane, which when administered in the just the right dosage will take someone to the doors of death, but not through them. The victim will have the appearance of being dead, but should recover.

I do not think that Henbane would have been what Olaf used on Monty, if a fake death by poisoning is indeed the case. The opulently outstanding Olaf has far too much poetic insight to stoop to poisoning Monty with a plant. No. He must have studied every reptile housed in the room in order to poison Uncle Monty with one of his own, dearly-beloved animals to much the same effect as the use of henbane on poor Juliet.

I cannot attest to know what reptile may produce such a poison. My research has not yet taken me so far. Nor have I discovered what poisons may have been used on Gilligan or Sloane, but Olaf had nothing to do with those particular incidents and neither did the Baudelaires, so they are neither here nor there to the desired results of my quest for facts.

[Antenora]

Why use Shakespeare, thou dost inquire? Doing so makes you seem smarter. Plus, in Snicket's case such things would be literary allusions, in a way.
Good observation about funerals. Aunt Josephine, if she's dead, likely never got a burial because she was devoured by leeches. But you'd expect Monty to get buried, unless Olaf threw his body in the Swarthy Swamp. Orwell may have been buried, but Jacques.....I'm not sure. This implies that they aren't really dead.