The End: Official Discussion

[jcgsebald]

I already finished reading the book. MY FAVORITE PART WAS WHEN:

Ishmael shot Olaf with the harpoon and all the fungi was released.

[melonywicket]

My thoughts exactly, infitsofprint. Why would the VFD, a once completely unified organization, have a schism over a sugar bowl of horseradish? It doesn't make sense.

The book overall, to me, was a bit of a disappointment...although I love all of Snicket's books, The End proved, in my opinion, to be inadequate in the answering of questions department. NOTHING was solved, aside from the whole Beatrice thing.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel of doom! Check it out!

www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160689837900&call_pageid=968867495754&StarSource=RSS

[Mary]

Hi, everyone. I finished it this morning. I wish I had more time to discuss. I skimmed this whole thread wondering if anyone noticed the Sunny speak winner. That is so cool GiGi, that you noticed she said six six seven. Wow. So we don't know what the sunny speak that someone won was yet? Would someone IM me when we do know? In case I don't get back or have time to look when this thread is 100 pages long? My favorite Sunny speak in this one was "Anais"- in the flesh because I love Anais Nin.

[snifferofcakes]

I'm not a regular poster, or an expert on asoue, but I have some comments/questions, and I'd be interested to see the group's feedback on them.

First, I enjoyed the last book (books), but was dissapointed that they didn't fully explain VFD. Hopefully the Horseradish book will? I understand LS's point about not needing to understand every nook and cranny of the mysteries, I just don't agree! DH wrote a series of books, and I like them, but wish he made this cool universe a little more clear for his dedicated readers! But enough of that.

I don't understand the role of the Duchess of Winnipeg, or her ring. Does anyone understand (or are there links or threads) that explain who had it when, and what it means? I have read about it in The End and the UA, but I don't get it.

Also, I think that Widdershins is Mrs. Calhoun's husband. The manatee connection seems to be common sense, and it goes along with the 3-children families (Fiona,
Ferdinand, and Friday). Also, was it implied that Mr. Calhoun's name was Monday? I may have made that connection up...

I'm also confused about the sugar bowl. What did the orphans think that it held earlier? We were told that it contained something that could either stop Olaf, or bring him to justice. If it was stopping him, horseradish makes sense, but I had the impression that the sugar bowl had something in it that was incriminating.

People are concerned with the timeframe of Kit getting pregnant with Olaf's baby, but I think he is the father. Could they have been in contact at Prufock's? Besides that, Olaf seems to have traveled to the hinterlands somewhat regularly, so I think that time/distance constraints in asoue aren't really issues, anyway. I really liked the idea of Kit and Olaf being together. Olaf as a romantic figure (of sorts), and for not apologizing for his ways but loving a noble woman fits in with the series' theme of mixed elements of good and evil. Also, I like the idea that the orphans are confused about Olaf's role in burning down the house.

Last I have a pretty far fetched theory. What if Olaf is Bertrand's brother. This would make sense in a couple ways (I think). First, it creates a bloodline to the orphans and explains why he would have been first to have adopted them. Second, this supports Kit's statement that the Snicket and Baudalaire families have always been close (in reference to the relationship between Kit and Olaf). Third, if Olaf was Olaf Baudalaire, this would explain why Beatrice Jr.'s last name is Baudalaire, and not Denoumont or Snicket. I know it isn't solid, but it's something to think about at least.

[infitsofprint]

Dewey is definitely Beatrice's father. I think you're supposed to think about Olaf/Kit/Dewey as a counterpart to Lemony/Beatrice/Bertrand. They're in love as children, are seperated and start families with other people, and the ones left out end up with the Baudelaire orphans- Olaf tries to get their fortune, and Lemony tries to get their story.

[beatriceblake]

Why would the VFD, a once completely unified organization, have a schism over a sugar bowl of horseradish? It doesn't make sense.

I don’t think they had a schism over the sugar bowl. I think they had a schism because one of Handler’s themes is the inability of large groups of people to get along peacefully with each other.

What did the orphans think that it held earlier?

They didn’t know but it was implied in UA that it held a recording device.

What if Olaf is Bertrand's brother?

I don’t think that is likely. First Olaf is not introduced to us as the Baudelaire children’s uncle but as a distant cousin. Second the Baudelaires never refer to him as “uncle”. I don’t think Olaf is Kit’s baby father either. He has been pretty busy chasing the Baudelaires and it seems Kit has not liked Olaf for some time due to his various villainies.

[Deleted]

you know what I hate to no end. when articles have uncle olaf. I just want to scream.

[All Due Respect]

So many questions weren't answered! What on earth was in the sugar bowl??

[Jerome's Necktie]

The reason that Violet might have been named Lemony is quite simple, and some people have already explained it. However, others don't seem to get it...

Lemony Snicket's obituary appeared in The Daily Punctillio. And, in LSTUA, we're told the a funeral did take place. We already know that Beatrice (Mrs. Baudelaire) may occasionally believe things in TDP (she refused to marry him because of something written in it), and so she, at that time, believed him dead.

Snicket's obituary may have washed up on the shores of the island while Bertrand and Beatrice were the facilitators, and so, in honor of Lemony, they decided to name Violet (if a boy) after him. However, when they sailed back into the world, and got re-involved with V.F.D. directly, they discovered Snicket was still alive, and so Klaus was not named after him.

Also, does anyone have a quote that directly states Olaf was an adult at the time of the schism? If so, Kitlaf is simply disgusting; Kit and Dewey were four years old at the time of the schism, and Olaf claims credit for burning down the Denouement home the night that Dewey and Frank were taken. Creepy.

[Jessie]

infitsofprint said:

The sugar bowl is clearly not an antidote to the medusoid mycelium. Why would VFD fight so hard over something you can buy in any supermarket? When the taxi drives away in TPP, we are pretty much being told that we will never be told what the sugar bowl is. It's some nameless thing that we can't imagine, seemingly insignificant but unimaginably important.

What if the people looking for the sugar bowl had no idea what was in it. Weren't the Baudelaires looking for the sugar bowl, and they didn't know what was in it. If a loved one or a superiorasked you find something, would you question him/her? I posted earlier that I didn't think Esme knew what was in the sugar bowl. Olaf probably just told her to find it.

[superorange]

But the sugar bowl was Esme's in the first place...

[superorange]

snicketfile said:

The reason that Violet might have been named Lemony is quite simple, and some people have already explained it. However, others don't seem to get it...

Lemony Snicket's obituary appeared in The Daily Punctillio. And, in LSTUA, we're told the a funeral did take place. We already know that Beatrice (Mrs. Baudelaire) may occasionally believe things in TDP (she refused to marry him because of something written in it), and so she, at that time, believed him dead.

Snicket's obituary may have washed up on the shores of the island while Bertrand and Beatrice were the facilitators, and so, in honor of Lemony, they decided to name Violet (if a boy) after him. However, when they sailed back into the world, and got re-involved with V.F.D. directly, they discovered Snicket was still alive, and so Klaus was not named after him.

Also, does anyone have a quote that directly states Olaf was an adult at the time of the schism? If so, Kitlaf is simply disgusting; Kit and Dewey were four years old at the time of the schism, and Olaf claims credit for burning down the Denouement home the night that Dewey and Frank were taken. Creepy.

Why is it impossible for Kit and Olaf to have a relationship DURING the Schism?

[Deleted]

I like the horseradish apple idea for the sugar bowl

[skyelash]

A question I have not seen adressed: Who is The Man with a Beard but no Hair, and who is the Women with Hair but no Beard? Who did they work for? Are they connected with the Q?

And one issue I have: Olaf is evil. Oh, but he was in love with someone good (even though he was apparently willing to abandon her and he unborn child on the top of a floating library)? He must be complex!
You can't prop a flat character against a wall and call him three-dimensional. Making him recite poetry doesn't do it either.

And one more question- what is 'Horseradish"?

[Nate2632]

i thought the book was a really lame way to end the series. ive been reading the books for like 5 years now, and i was let down by the end.

hopefully it really isnt the end.