Emily
Reptile Researcher
"The World is Quiet Here"
Posts: 16
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Post by Emily on Mar 17, 2011 12:26:55 GMT -5
The concerning possibility that the 4 orphans may have died is a confusing one.I'll have to attempt to contact Mr.Snicket,but it may not reach him because "the distance between us is so very far and so very troublesome.",but I shall work hard and give you the answer i receive.
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Post by thedoctororwell on Mar 17, 2011 15:27:16 GMT -5
There are several clues that argue positively for the theory every Baudelaire survived the trip to the Great Unknown :
1) In TRR, there's a mention about how "years later," Klaus would still regret he didn't do more to save Monty's life. As we know, everything after TVV takes only a few days ; since Klaus celebrates his thirteenth birthay in TVV and is twelve in TBB, there's less than a year between the two books. Add the time they spent between TE and Chapter 14th (a year exactly) and you've definitely got LESS than two years between the time Béatrice sank and Monty's death. The precision "two years later" therefore implies Klaus has survived.
2) There's a mention in TBB:RE that Violet finally met the Female Finnish Pirates on her third visit to Briney Beach. So far the Baudelaires have only been to Briney Beach twice in the series. Sure, you could argue that they went there before TBB even started, during vacations for example. However the note specifically says that the thirteenth book will dwell further on that matter. Maybe that means that Béatrice will sink no far from Briney Beach, where Violet, having survived the wreck, will meet the Pirates.
3) The line about Sunny's receipes "appearing" on the radio is of course a strong indicator. She couldn't have had a cooking show broadcast on the Island. Her recipes were recorded on land.
The evidence is pretty flimsy, but on the other hand there is a remarkable absence of clues suggesting the Baudelaires really did die. These extracts are vague and convoluted, but it still beats the opposing theory in my opinion.
TBL would also make a bit more sense if Béatrice and the Baudelaires weren't separated by the wreck itself. She apparently has contacts in what's left of VFD and is not on the loose. Her reasoning also suggests it's not a fool's errand she's going through : she's "looking" for the Baudelaires, but they don't seem to have "disappeared." She wouldn't have been so sure about what she was talking about, had she lost sight of them during a tempest.
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Post by Hermes on Mar 17, 2011 16:17:11 GMT -5
2) There's a mention in TBB:RE that Violet finally met the Female Finnish Pirates on her third visit to Briney Beach. So far the Baudelaires have only been to Briney Beach twice in the series. Actually, not quite. It says that Lemony is trying to find out whether she met the FFP on her third visit to Briny Beach. Of course, that does imply that there was a third visit. Aren't her contacts established during the book, though? She arrives at the VFD school, disguised as a secretarial school, and has difficulty getting them to accept her - finally, though, she is accepted and becomes a baticeer. I think she is quite despondent at points - doesn't she say 'the Baudelaires may be long gone'? I agree it's unlikely they were drowned as soon as they left the island. But whether they're still alive ten years later is another matter. |
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Emily
Reptile Researcher
"The World is Quiet Here"
Posts: 16
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Post by Emily on Mar 17, 2011 18:24:24 GMT -5
Well,didn't Beatrice recall in a letter "Sunny discussing her recipes on the radio"?If so,Sunny survived at least.She also recalled Klaus squinting through his glasses to read,so he must have a new pair if he survived,so sadly,the chances he's alive may be minimal.And we all know how Violet ties her hair in a ribbon when she's inventing, so of coarse Beatrice remembers that,but when,when,when?
And how did they end up shipwrecked?You'd think Violet would guide the craft with excellence and Kluas probably knows how due to his vast knowledge by reading so what happened?And how come only the littlest ones are suspected to live(Sunny + Beatrice)?The possibilities are horrendous!
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Post by csc on Apr 27, 2011 12:24:36 GMT -5
Why can't the illutration on TBL be about the beggining of The End? Afterall they wre in a storm in that same boat. And the spatulas make it even clearer. Lemony doesn't mention any when leaving the island but when getting there he does.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 27, 2011 15:24:16 GMT -5
And we all know how Violet ties her hair in a ribbon when she's inventing, so of coarse Beatrice remembers that,but when,when,when? I think Beatrice's memories of Violet and Klaus may come from the first year of her life, before the wreck. You may be surprised by her memories going back that far, but she's clearly a precocious child. I think both Violet and Klaus lived. With Violet there's the reference to he thrid visit to Briny beach, with Klaus a line in TRR about how later in life he regretted not warning Monty in time. But they were separated somehow. Why can't the illutration on TBL be about the beggining of The End? Afterall they wre in a storm in that same boat. And the spatulas make it even clearer. Lemony doesn't mention any when leaving the island but when getting there he does. Well, the boat wasn't wrecked on the way to the island - and at the time it was called Count Olaf, not Beatrice. Presumably they would have used the spatulas on the way back too, as the only rowing implements they had. |
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Post by Dante on Apr 29, 2011 10:03:38 GMT -5
It's true that the spatulas have been raised as an issue in relation to the poster, though. Maybe they're a mistake, maybe it would be entirely sensible for the Baudelaires to keep on using them... or maybe it's to confuse us. I think the picture is meant to be somewhat ambiguous as to whether it refers to the start or end of The End, although ultimately I think it must refer to the end.
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Post by csc on Apr 29, 2011 12:08:40 GMT -5
It is possible though that they were in a storm but survived in another island nearby.
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Post by Hermes on Apr 29, 2011 15:08:34 GMT -5
It's true that the spatulas have been raised as an issue in relation to the poster, though. Maybe they're a mistake, maybe it would be entirely sensible for the Baudelaires to keep on using them... or maybe it's to confuse us. I think the picture is meant to be somewhat ambiguous as to whether it refers to the start or end of The End, although ultimately I think it must refer to the end. Ah, good point - of course, The End hadn't come out when this was published, so a possible reading was that the boat sank soon after leaving the Hotel Denouement. |
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Post by Dante on Apr 29, 2011 16:33:04 GMT -5
Exactly. Indeed, that probably was a major theory; the only sticking point would've been the nameplate, and of course before The End came out we didn't even know Carmelita's boat even had several. We didn't even know it wasn't just a random boat Olaf bought that day, rather than a craft with a history.
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Post by colette on Sept 4, 2011 1:14:18 GMT -5
I will join your disscussion.
Hard to say if I liked or disliked TE. But there are some interesting aspects I found there:
1.I really enjoyed characters of Friday, Miranda and Ishmael. All three of them are just extremely interesting and I will actually write something new about them in my sequel to ASoUE. All other castaways are just like background for this story and nothing more.
2. Sunny is cooking again! I started to admire after she became a shef and I really missed her extremely delicious food in TPP.
3. Alonso mentioned somebody named Gonsalo. Count Olaf's associate, I guess? This is an example how one line can impress on new fan fiction.
4. I loved Humphrey's mentioning! I hope Humphrey is Gregor and Ike's middle brother!One more interesting person.
5. I guess that Luckysmells Lumbermill used to be a melon farm. I lhope that two brothers who owned it were Sir and Charles. I guess Sir was known by his real name then. And I guess that people just thought that he was murdered in a small town ( that town must be Paltrivillle). But who are those three kids who were charged in his "death"?
6. I am absolutely sure that a girl with one ear and one eyebrow was Mrs. Anwhistle Sr., Gregor's, Ike's and probably Humphrey's mother. I remember that in TWW Aunt Josephine stated that her mother-in-law had one ear and one eyebrow. And I don't believe in concidiences in Snicketworld.
7. I loved that my thoughts about Dewey/Kit relationship were confirmed. As you probably know, Dewey/Kit is my most favorite couple in whole ASoUE or at least in canon.
8. Despite my huge love to Dewey/Kit couple, I really enjoyed Kit/Olaf relationship!
9. I like that it wasn't mentioned that Phil was caught in Great Unknown. I want to hope he is safe! He was so sweet and it would be really sad if he died! I never liked none of three Quagmires(especially Quigley) too much and I really dislike Fiona for turning on Count Olaf's side in TGG! If I found out that Fiona is dead, I wouldn't be upset at all! I also don't carry about Captain Widdershins! Don't get me wrong, he was so nice but not too interesting. But I am very sorry about Fernald and Hector... I always loved these two...
10. I hope Baudelaires didn't die because in THH Lemony stated that he doesn't know if they are alive?
P.S. Count Olaf's death dissapointed me. I wanted more romances and more adventures with him! And Kit... I loved Kit, she was a great and noble girl! She made the series more weird and more interesting and she was so beautiful...( Due to the TPP cover) To tell, truth, she was even a bit more beautiful than Violet for me. WHY DID THEY BOTH DIE? The end of TE was SO dissapointing! And again I am VERY sorry about Fernald and Hector.
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