The End: Official Discussion

[MWC]

My book only came with a little bookmark and a VFD insignia. Pah.

[PJ]

I think that at the time, Beatrice thought Lemony was dead, so she would have named Violet Lemony. But she later found out that he wasn't, hence she didn't name Klaus after him, instead naming him...well...Klaus.

And the only promo for anything I've ever gotten ever is a black beanie that was far too small for me when I got HBP. It wasn't even HP relevant.

SO MEH.

[snicketfilepg13]

sadoccasion said:

I still think Dewey was the father, but I think Olaf had a relationship with Kit during their days in V.F.D. training, before he joined the villianous side of the schism.

EDIT: Also, this thought just occured to me - if Beatrice #2 is Kit's daughter, isn't she technically Beatrice Denoument and not beatrice Baudelaire???

Beatrice Jr. wouldn't have known who her father was. Kit died when she was born. The Baudelaires, couldn't SAFELY say that Dewey was the father, I mean, he only said "Kit.." when he died. Thats the only evidence the Baudelaires would have had.

Heres the thing. In TBL, the letters say "I am Beatrice Baudelaire, I am an orphan without Violet, Klaus + Sunny" yada yada yada. But if they left the island when Beatrice Jr. was only one, she wouldn't have known that Baudelaire was their last name. So if the ? did attack the Baudelaires as TBL suggests, how does Beatrice know Baudelaire? And if she was seperated at the age of 1, how did Beatrice get raised? TBL says when she was writing one letter when she was 10.

Argh.

[Phoebonica]

thesinistersnicket said:

Fiona, Fernald, Friday. Hmm.

And manatees, don't forget... And it's actually pointed out in TBL that manatees eat vegetables. ("I will love you as the manatee loves the head of lettuce" or something.) So "eaten by a manatee" is a fairly transparent excuse.

[PJ]

I think that Beatrice sank, and perhaps Violet got spearated, but htey all made it back safely in the end and raised her, only to get seperated again, at the age of ten, or something.

[beatriceblake]

I liked the book. I am just surprised that TBL strongly hinted at the main reveal of The End that Beatrice the first was the Baudelaires' mother. I liked that Handler broke some of the patterns of the series by including fourteen chapters and having the islanders unfooled by Olaf.

I didn't mind the fact that the Quagmires did not appear but I think Handler should have hinted at what was behind the sugar bowl mystery.

Part of me likes the mysteries upon mysteries that cannot be solved theme and part of me thinks that it is a good excuse for lazy writing. Or in the words of Sunny Janiceps.

Did Mrs. Baud choose Lemony because she believed that LS was dead at that time, or because she was planning to name her son after the same person that LS was named for?

I think Mrs Baudelaire believed Lemony was dead. His obituary was in the paper and the UA suggests that Mrs Baudelaire believed what she read in the paper about him, hence their break up.

I can see why Friday would be fooled since she grew up on the island of no books; however, wouldn't Fiona be intelligent enough to know the difference?

Fiona was suspicious about her Mother's death. She says "I'm not so sure it was an accident".

So if the ? did attack the Baudelaires as TBL suggests, how does Beatrice know Baudelaire?

They could have been shipwrecked but not separated until later. So Beatrice grew up with the siblings as Beatrice Baudelaire but was later separated from them when she was nine or ten.

Was anyone else amused by the idea of Sunny becoming a parent when she was at most three or four years old?

[Phoebonica]

beatriceblake said:

I didn't mind the fact that the Quagmires did not appear but I think Handler should have hinted at what was behind the sugar bowl mystery.

When they're reading their parents' notes, Klaus gets to a part about "in case we're exiled B. has hidden some of the antidote in a vess-" and then breaks off coughing. I have a feeling he was going to say "vessel for disaccharides" i.e. sugarbowl.

[Bellatree]

"Qu-Qu-Quigley?"
The distraught fangirl managed to utter, whilst trying to fight back the tears that she was also forcing.
.
.
.
.
.
I don't know what to say...QUIGLEY! I LOVE YOU! *sniff*

*Le sigh*

I figured out that the apples could cure them, when they were reading out of the book, and I tried to figure out all the words and put them together and stuff, and I figured it out! Woo!
*air punch*

[SadOccasion]

One of my favorite parts of this book was its minimal relation to V.F.D.

I think the Baudelaires gained a respect for V.F.D. through the book, but also a resentment, because of all the confusing mysteries it brought into their lvies, which is why I like ot believe they abandoned the lives of Volunteers to take on new names and identities in the city and raise their little Beatrice away fro mthe troubles of the organization.

Although, as we can see in TBL, Beatrice does manage to eventually recieve osme formal V.F.D. training, so the family couldn't escape their past forever.

[pullerofstrings]

I agree with you, Rip van Winkle. I think the poster from The Beatric Letters shows the ship AFTER the events of The End, as the "Beatrice" sign is split in half (I think) and such things as Klaus's ruined glasses can be seen. They didn't get lost in The End, so... Maybe they were attacked by the ? and they met their friends again.

Oh, and just to clarify, the ? was a MECHANICAL MONSTER, not a beast. It says so on the back of The Grim Grotto. I still want to know what happened with it, though...

But yeah, Violet presumably ends up on Briny Beach, meets the FFP (Fire Fighting People?) pirates and that is the path the Baudelaires take to rejoin VFD with the remaining Volunteers (possibly). After all, they're wanted criminals, so they can't rejoin society... at least, not yet. After all, their series of unfortunate events is over, so they presumably live a relatively happy existence for the rest of their days.

[jman]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was the awesomest book I've read in a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time! By chapter 4 I thought I had it figured out, but boy was I wrong! I don't think anything could have prepared us for this book.

According to what is said, I think the Baudelaire parents put one of their hybrid apple in the sugar bowl so that those in the outside world (not on the island) would be able to survive the Medusoid Mycelium. They could take the seeds from the apple and grow more anti-mycelium trees, so that no noble people would die from poisoning.

[PJ]

pullerofstrings said:

Oh, and just to clarify, the ? was a MECHANICAL MONSTER, not a beast. It says so on the back of The Grim Grotto. I still want to know what happened with it, though...

I think that referred to the giant mechanical octopus. I mean, Lemony clearly stated that he wouldn't tell whether it was mechanical or a living creature.

[Deleted]

* On the page immediate preceding the Beatrice dedication of Chapter Fourteen, there is a quotation from Baudelaire The Voyage, VIII

"O Mort, vieux capitaine, il est temps! levons l'ancre!
Ce pays nous ennuie, o Mort! Appareillons!
Si le ciel et la mer noirs comme de l'encre,
Nos cœurs que tu connais sont remplis de rayons!"

Which, when translated, is something around the lines of

"O Death, old captain, it is time! Raise the anchor!
This land tires us, o Death! Sail away!!
If the sky and the sea are as black as ink,
Our hearts as thou know are filled with light!"


also from wikipedia:
# Lemony mentions that the children "had investigated the Volunteer Fire Department", which concretely establishes what V.F.D. stands for.
# The mystery of the sugarbowl is not explained, though it is hinted to contain some sort of antidote, possibly horseradish.
# It is hinted at that Count Olaf is NOT responsible for the fire that killed the Baudelaire's parents, as has been thought by many. Who the real perpretators are, is, like so much else, still a mystery.

[SadOccasion]

Oh, by the way, why is everyone assuming now that Olaf didn't burn their house down? Olaf never answers yes or no, so we'll never know for sure.

And was anyone else touched when the Baudelaires visited Olaf's grave as well as Kit's? I think it really says something for the Baudelaire's character - Olaf (at least in his villanous state) woudl not have done the same ofr them, but they proved to themselves that they were much better than Olaf.

That being said, the moral ambiguity didn't play as large of a part as I had hoped, although I did think their constant questions about whether or not Olaf should be treated like a human being despite his inhuman acts, were itneresting. I was hoping on a bitm ore of the Baudelaire's family background in relation to the poison darts and Olaf's parents, especialyl sicne it is mentioned in the first chapter, but alas, it never turned up again. I guess it's all for the better - The Baudelaires probabaly found out everything they needed to in A Series of Unfortunate Events, so really, why does it matter if we know or not?

[PJ]

It's funny, cos not only did I point out all of what hatram just said earlier on in this thread, but I edited all of what you just posted from wikipedia, as well.

So you repeated what I said, by copying and posting the exact same thing I had said from a different source.

Fun!

Also, Olaf says "is that whatt you think?" which, given his uncharactaristical charitable mood at the moment probably means that it wasn't him. It never was stated that he burnt down the house, only that a guest left a ringmark on the table by not using a coaster, the hallmark of an ignoble person.