Why "The End" was such a dissapointment

[violet]

Apr 13, 2008 2:00:30 GMT -5 Jacob said:

Well I don't think it was perfect. Quite frankly I think it sucked. I'm sorry I ever even started to read the series period! To be let down at the end. Some loose ends need to be explained and I don't give a George Washington about the "air of mystery." What happened to all the other characters? Sugar bowl? Snicket file? And why the HELL would he open up more questions at the end? Like Olaf kissing Kit? And saying he would do that one more time? When did he do that first? Worst effing book i've EVER read.

Fanfiction.
It wasn't my favorite, but as I said before, it answered a few questions (not as much as we wanted though), and it gave us the 'Great Unknown' thing to think about.
Also, Hotel Denoument- denoument is when al or most questions are answered, not to be confused with the end. Hotel Denoument burned. So, TPP gave a foreshadowing (or red herring, with the not to be confused with the end part of the definition).

What if Handler says that 75% of TE is a red herring? That'll answer a lot of questions, then.

[melon head.]

iJacob, you could be a little more optimistic and a little less of a flamer.

[Kount Kelsey]

maybe lemony left the end like he left it because soon a new book will come out say what happened to the baudelaire's after and the island and the book ..... you never know?

[smartalecks]

I rather liked the end. It was a little less thrilling than TPP, and somewhat lacks a resolution, and to be honest there isn't exactly much of a point to it at all, but I still liked it. It fit.

[Aviva]

I don't think The End was a disappointment, and it held a big revelation for me; perhaps I'm dense, but I had absolutely no idea that Beatrice was the Baudelaires' mother until I finished reading The End. Just because a lot of questions weren't answered in The End doesn't mean it's lame. In my opinion, The End is a fitting conclusion to ASOUE because it will keep you thinking about the series even after you've read it, for you will be thinking about its mysteries.

[Deleted]

"In my opinion, The End is a fitting conclusion to ASOUE because it will keep you thinking about the series even after you've read it, for you will be thinking about its mysteries. "

I totally agree. Off the top of my head, I can think of about... 5 different mysteries that never got solved:
*the sugar bowl
*VFD
*captain Widdershins
*The villians, what ever happened to them, we are left to presume that the man with a beard and no hair and the woman with hair and no beard would have booted it out of there, and were still commiting treachury.
*It's not a mystery, but I would have liked to see Dewey's library.

So five of them, he left. As for the thing about Beatrice being the Baudilieries mother, I kinda guessed it around TEE, but I thought that LS was the father, untill... was it TPP? where it said Bertrand, where I thought, nope, guess not!

TE was kinda a let down, but not as bad as most people say. Yes, they didn't resolve all the mysteries, but still, if they did, ASOUE wouldn't be around!

Yes, it did bring up a lot of more things, like why did Olaf kiss Kit, we may never know. But it does seem like there's a lot of people cheating on each other in this series.

A lot of the things that we are left with we have to guess, which makes it more fun. Like the Sugar Bowl, a lot of people think it holds the cure to the mushrooms in TGG (sorry, don't know the name). Also, we have to presume that VFD is basically gone after TPP, as most probably went down with the ship, or in this case, hotel. I think Handler did it on purpose. If he had have resolved all the mysteries, we would have complained that that he ruined it. The Beatrice letters and TUA probably were made to get rid of some of the mysteries, but leave some for us to guess. It makes a good story, if you ask me.

I forget who said it, but there are some things better left unsolved, and I have to say, it's more fun to guess! I really wish that he sorted some out, though, like the Quagmires, I love them!!! And the snicket file! And did Esmè after? Did she stay treturous? Did she turn good?

Well that's my very unorganized two cents.

[afireinside]

Baudilieries

I am sorry but I just LOVE that spelling

I never read the autobiography thingy or the beatrice letters so could someone please tell me the key points about em?

Also since I didn't read the autobiog the revelation of beatrice was an UTTER suprise to me. But I don't see what the big fuss about captain widdy is all about. Maybe he just didn't like hesitationg while waiting for the Baudelaires to come back and decided to go out and help them. Also about the great unknown, I don't think it is a monster, I think it is a submarine in the shape of a ?

Also I think VFD being Volunteer Fire Department was a bit of a let down. I thought it would be something really mysterious like Volunteers Fighting Death or something.

As to what the sugar bowl contains... well it can't exactly be info about count olaf because Dewey said that if it fell into enemy hand it would be a bad thing. Maybe a key to a library containing the complete history of humanity. Also did any1 else notice that snickett never actually said that the baudelairs were human. Or if Count Olaf was really a baudelaire who got disowned and then wanted to have the fortune that was his right. Maybe it was legal that he had the fortune after all.

But coming back to the end. I wish that he had added a couple more answers, not to everything but to some stuff. But I was pretty pleased with it on the whole although I wish I could afford the Beatrice letters and an Unauthorised Biography...

[Hermes]

afireinside: It's almost impossible to explain the autobiography, because it doesn't tell an overall story; it consists of little fragments, various documents written by Lemony and others at different points in his life - some before the events of ASOUE, some during it, and possibly some after. It does make clear some things that weren't obvious from the main series when it came out, but became so later - that VFD was a secret organisation, that it had gone through a schism, that the Snicket siblings, Beatrice, and Count Olaf were members, and so on.

The Beatrice Letters has two main components; on the one hand letters from Lemony to the elder Beatrice (the Baudelaires' mother), starting from when they met as children, going through their engagement and then the breakup; on the other hand letters, written much later, to Lemony from young Beatrice (Kit's daughter, though that wasn't clear when the book first came out). She has been separated from the Baudelaires and is trying to find them, and thinks Lemony can help. He seems to be avoiding her, but also leaving clues for her to follow.

Hope that helps!

[Dante]

afireinside, I would definitely recommend seeking out Lemony Snicket: The Unauthorized Autobiography and The Beatrice Letters, if you can. As well as containing important information about the series, they're also good books.

[Sora]

Considering it has been nearly two years since I last read The End, but these were my feelings on the resolution:

It was fair, and representative of the series as a whole. Did we ever really learn the answer to anything, ever? ASOUE is like LOST, once you are given a mystery, the only solution leads to three other mysteries. You are left to work out the mysteries on your own - and look at us. We're still debating the issues over two years after its release. I mean, if ASOUE had imagined some sappy epilogue like in Deathly Hallows, then the overarching theme of misery and nihilism would be dissolved.

[Christmas Chief]

I think The End was ended without enough answers, which I don't think is wonderful, but it could be worse.

[hieitouyaicedemon]

While I recognize the symbol of the Great Unknown as an ever-mysterious figure, I also see it as a giant cop-out when you want to get rid of something.

As a writer myself, I know how easy it is to write something off, and I recognized immediately Unknown's purpose. However, its very introduction into the series was a cop-out. If you explain it, it's breaking the mystery, but if you don't, it's a random little piece that irritates everyone. The Great Unknown still bothers me in that respect.

I was also disappointed in the lack of a "truly haunting secret." It's one thing to dodge a plotline like the Great Unknown, but to promise your readers something (and he PROMISED it to us on the back of the book,) and then fail to deliver, particularly when one of your signature styles is forshadowing, is unfair. Your just messing with their heads, not inspiring thought. It's false advertising, which I've never seen Lemony (or, possibly, the publishing company) sink to.

Oh, and one thing that went unmentioned in the original post...

A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS!

Now, I have to say I was very excited when I read that title, but later, it drove me up the wall. That book annoyed me, because I recognized it for what it was - a cop-out.

In my opinion, the book was the greatest cop-out of all. The Baudelaires learn all these secrets, but we don't get to see them? Since when? Seriously.

Anyway, I didn't mind the sugar bowl or even the poison darts, because they seemed like points to inspire thought. Clearly, they're meant to be debated.

In my opinion, The End played out like one big epilogue, rather than a book in itself. The series really seemed to end in TPP (and, to be fair, Lemony DID warn us TPP was the denouement,) and TE seemed to be the "after." Irrelevant to the rest of their story, it just dragged on and showed the (sometimes fuzzy) futures of characters such as the Quagmires, Kit, and Olaf. While some might argue Chapter 14 was the epilogue, it actually served the plot more than half of TE. The Baudelaires journeyed out once more, to unknown futures, very similar to the end of TPP, only with a new character and a few (very few) revelations along the way.

The series could have survived without much of what was in TE. The book really seemed out-of-place; none of the new characters had any real ties to the rest of the series, and the supporting cast was forgettable at best. Lemony teases us with Ish for a moment, but then he sets off and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the book.

The one revelation I can credit to TE is that of Beatrice being the Baudelaire's mother. That was clearly important.

While I enjoyed TE, and understood the symbolism of the book (cast out from society, the Baudelaires make a new life far away, following in their parents' footsteps without realizing it,) it did sort of seem like something thrown together at the last minute, in the race to get the final book out.

Of course, that's just my opinion. Like I said, I enjoyed the book, but there were several things I had to get off my chest. If you somehow read this ridiculously long post, thank you, and my exaltation to any who dare even try.

[Dante]

Jan 21, 2009 17:28:16 GMT -5 Christmas Chief said:

I read the end 57 times in 5th grade counting, now, it is literally in tatters I think it was ended without answers, which I don't think is wonderful, but it could be worse. In the Beatrice Letters, is it talking about Kit's daughter, or their mother?

The Beatrice being written to is the Baudelaires' mother. The Beatrice who is writing letters is Kit's daughter. If you reread it a couple of times, it becomes very clear.

Jan 21, 2009 18:21:36 GMT -5 hieitouyaicedemon said:

I was also disappointed in the lack of a "truly haunting secret." It's one thing to dodge a plotline like the Great Unknown, but to promise your readers something (and he PROMISED it to us on the back of the book,) and then fail to deliver, particularly when one of your signature styles is forshadowing, is unfair. Your just messing with their heads, not inspiring thought. It's false advertising, which I've never seen Lemony (or, possibly, the publishing company) sink to.

No arguments on that point; the "truly haunting secret" definitely never appeared, and I don't think there's anything in the book you can describe as fitting that description. I have to say I think something was going on internally with that one - maybe Lemony wrote the Dear Reader letter too early and forgot to change it after finishing the final draft of the book? A Dear Reader letter was released early for TGG that alluded to hypochondria, but the published book contained neither hypochondria nor the reference to same on the back cover.

In my opinion, the book was the greatest cop-out of all. The Baudelaires learn all these secrets, but we don't get to see them? Since when? Seriously.

Narrative expedience. The book answered some questions, but left them with many more; I imagine that providing the details of its contents would make The End even more unsatisfying. Note: I'm not justifying here, just trying to explain what I think was happening.

In my opinion, The End played out like one big epilogue, rather than a book in itself. The series really seemed to end in TPP (and, to be fair, Lemony DID warn us TPP was the denouement,) and TE seemed to be the "after." Irrelevant to the rest of their story, it just dragged on and showed the (sometimes fuzzy) futures of characters such as the Quagmires, Kit, and Olaf. While some might argue Chapter 14 was the epilogue, it actually served the plot more than half of TE. The Baudelaires journeyed out once more, to unknown futures, very similar to the end of TPP, only with a new character and a few (very few) revelations along the way.

The series could have survived without much of what was in TE. The book really seemed out-of-place; none of the new characters had any real ties to the rest of the series, and the supporting cast was forgettable at best. Lemony teases us with Ish for a moment, but then he sets off and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the book.

I actually think it's the point of The End to be more like an epilogue; as you say, Lemony explains that TPP is the denouement. I see The End as the "falling action" after the denouement in which things even out to a non-dramatic status quo. Back when TPP was released, I remember reading a blog post speculating that there would be no thirteenth book and that TPP was the real climax, which in its own way wasn't far off the mark. It's a big theory of mine that the series itself is a macro version of an individual book in the series; in this sense, The End is like the thirteenth chapter, or the last few pages of the thirteenth chapter, in each of the books where the dramatic climax is over and the Baudelaires are about to be shuffled off someplace else by Mr. Poe, or on their own weary legs. (This doesn't work very well for the books which end on more of a cliffhanger, but I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.) So I see it as a potential literary point that The End bears little connection to the overall plot of the series, although I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that Handler intended it. The End wraps up some of the points Handler was making in the later books of the series. I'm not going to argue for a second that it was perfect or even that those points had no relation to a potential get-out clause for everything he'd introduced. But I do think that a flawed production process or a flawed author can produce real art, and that's how I think of the series - it benefits as a work of art from its flaws. (It's not an opinion I expect to gain widespread agreement...)

Reason for Editing: Mixed up "satisfying" and "unsatisfying." That could've been problematic.

[Hermes]

On the 'truly haunting secret': I had read this as hyperbole. We do discover something about the past of the Baudelaire parents - their previous life on the island, etc. (which is a lot more than we ever knew about them, or at least the father, before); it's just that 'truly haunting' doesn't seem a good description of it. I hadn't considered that there might be another secret which was planned but not included; but it's an interesting idea. (Or is it possible that the truly haunting secret is that Beatrice was the Baudelaires' mother? Of course a lot of devoted readers who had read the supplementary material strongly suspected that already, but I'm not sure whether the average reader did.)

A Series of Unfortunate Events: Telling us everything that is in it - which is presumably the history of everyone who has been washed up on the island - would not work, I feel; it's there - like Ishmael's and Olaf's stories, but on a larger scale - to give us a sense of the large and mysterious world that stretches beyond the limits of any one person's story. I think we do learn the bit of it we need to know - the schism on the island, the development of the bitter apples, and so on.

Regarding the book as a whole, it produces a rather odd feeling. I don't think there is any specific thing which Lemony should have told us but didn't; the mysteries either are answered (like 'Who was Beatrice' and 'What does VFD stand for?') or are meant to be mysteries, symbols of the mysterious world (like 'What is in the sugar bowl?' and 'What is the Great Unknown?'). There are a few things I would like to have found out, like Fernald and Fiona's surname, but I don't think the story is damaged irreparably by our not knowing them. Yet - like many other people - I approached the book expecting it to contain The Answer, and was rather taken aback - not disappointed, just surprised - to find that there was no such thing as The Answer. I guess we - and probably the most devoted fans more than others - had fallen into reading the series as if it were a mystery; but though it contains mysteries, I don't think it was really meant to be a mystery as a whole; it's basically a narrative of misfortune, though also of continuing hope.

[murakami]

Have to admit that I loved 'The End' I only read it today, and heard rumours of dissapoinment, so perhaps I approached it with low expectations, but I think it was possibly my favourite book of the series. It had a lot more depth than I was expecting, with all the exploration of secrets and religion. It felt very carefully crafted. I liked the fact that the sugar bowl proved to be unimportant, as if all the fighting had been for nothing. I loved how morally ambiguous it had become by the last chapter. Still can't believe that these books are meant for 8-12 year olds! I'm 21, and havnt found much adult ficion as layered as this.