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Post by Dante on Nov 22, 2006 16:00:11 GMT -5
I tried to connect TBL with some documents from LSUA... But it doesn't make sense ! It's like these two books talk about two different versions of the plot ! Somebody help me ! I wouldn't be surprised. ASoUE's continuity is a little... flexible. Just a guess, but this wouldn't be something to do with the letter to Lemony from Valorous Farms Dairy the Vineyard of Fragrant Drapes, would it? Edit: At the time, I couldn't remember the name of the Vineyard, so apparently my brain put in the next-best V.F.D.-named place.
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Post by RockSunner on Nov 22, 2006 23:52:00 GMT -5
I think young Beatrice has developed a habit of drinking root beer floats at the café, and, while there, found herself quite impressed with another young lad of about the same age as her, and that maybe they'll start to spend a lot of time together, and that this will lead to an unfortunate event where she'll never be happy again. She's the Lemony Snicket figure of the future, the same names recurring again and again through time. The cycle of misfortune goes on, forever. The End. How's that for pessimism? That's a fascinating theory, Dante, but I think it's a bit too completx to be true. It requires that we postulate a new young man with the intiails L.S., who got this last note and that somehow Lemony got hold of it for this book. I see instead that Beatrice realized her notes were becoming more bitter, desperate, and stalking and that she was making no progress that way. She changed tactics and appealed to the Lemony who had been a shy young man reaching out to a person he cared about. I see the parallel language here as completely deliberate -- copied from his note that BB2 found and read. I think this new tactic worked and Lemony spoke to her.
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Post by thedoctororwell on Nov 24, 2006 2:56:03 GMT -5
I tried to connect TBL with some documents from LSUA... But it doesn't make sense ! It's like these two books talk about two different versions of the plot ! Somebody help me ! I wouldn't be surprised. ASoUE's continuity is a little... flexible. Just a guess, but this wouldn't be something to do with the letter to Lemony from Valorous Farms Dairy, would it? Uh, no... I tried to connect Lemony's letters in TBL with the transcript of the VFD meeting, the review of Funcoot's play, and Jacques' letter to Lemony. Ah ! And also the vineyard's letter.
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Post by Dante on Nov 24, 2006 4:27:21 GMT -5
Uh, no... I tried to connect Lemony's letters in TBL with the transcript of the VFD meeting, the review of Funcoot's play, and Jacques' letter to Lemony. Ah ! And also the vineyard's letter. Actually, I meant the Vineyard's letter; sorry, I've no idea why I put Valorous Farms Dairy, especially since I don't believe they ever wrote to him at all in the U.A. Gap in my brain, I suppose. ...Yes, they do sound like they have fairly different plots. They can quite possibly fit in the gaps of each other, though. Let me see... In the U.A., Lemony's negative review of Funcoot's play caused Jacques to advise him to leave the country and not to talk to Beatrice (a certain B., anyway), and may have been, from my rusty memory of the U.A., why the Vineyard advised him not to come, because Olaf was out for revenge for interfering in one of his plots. So Olaf starts going out of his way to ruin Lemony, and also apparently wants to destroy Beatrice, and since Lemony was, I believe, still writing for The Daily Punctilio when My Silence Knot was being performed but was fired after negatively reviewing One Last Warning (etc.), then MSK came before OLW, and there was also something about MSK (I subscribe roughly to RockSunner's theory a little while back about there perhaps having been some sort of coded message in the play that the program would have elaborated upon, possibly Verse Fluctuation Declaration) that caused a rift between the two of them. Yes, from my vague memories, I think that the two can probably be slotted into each others' gaps, although I don't think they particularly complement each other - it may be enough that they don't contradict each other. Again, this is just going purely off memory; there may be other elements of the books that haven't immediately come to my mind that get in the way of this. If anyone else remembers something important to this, or has their own thoughts, do say so. It's difficult, though, because Handler seems to change his mind on the backstory of the series now and then, and come up with new things that don't necessarily slot with the old, and I personally believe he may have changed his mind several times on the identity of Beatrice.
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Post by thedoctororwell on Nov 24, 2006 11:28:22 GMT -5
That's sensible. I guess it's safer to make our conclusions only with TBL. I recently had an idea... In TE, it is said that the Duchess gave her mother's ring to Lemony, wich gave it to Béatrice, etc. The question is : WHY did she give it to him ? We'll all agree about the fact that she wasn't dead/impersonated/missing at that time. If it's supposed to be an engagment ring, would that mean that R was in love with Lemony ? After all, there were close friends, and she seems to share a special link with Béatrice. So, we can imagine that she made a desperate attempt to marry him, but, of course, he refused (why didn't he give the ring back ? I think that it was only a scenaristic purpose, if he gave it back, the ring couldn't have appeared later in TBL and in TE), because he didn't love her. This could lead to two theories : 1) It seems like a romantic maelstrom, wich is very similar to some greek tragedies' plots : for exemple, in Andromaque, Oreste loves Hermione, who loves Pyrrhus, who loves Andromaque, who loves Hector, and this provokes an enormous catastrophe. It is a reccurent type of plot in litterature... So maybe Lemony's tragedy follows the same type of plot : R loves Lemony, who loves Béatrice, who loves someone else (I think she loved someone else than Bertrand at one time). It's a tragic situation because there's no escape in it. 2) R was Béatrice's close friend. She perfectly knew that there was a romantic relationship between those two, anyway it was obvious to everyone. If she knew how strong Lemony's love for Béatrice was, why did she propose to marry him ? Well, maybe she already knew at that time that Béatrice DIDN'T love Lemony : she could have confessed that to her. So she thought she had a chance, because Béatrice had told her that she wanted to make things clear with Lemony : she confessed her lack of love for fim in a sonnet, but he didn't read it. R thought that he had read it, and proposed him marriage : Lemony refused.
Well, my personal theory is that Béatrice only thought of Lemony as a friend, but wasn't brave enough to confess it : when Lemony was on the run due to his review, she used that event as a pretext, but we can also imagine that she confessed her feelings a bit later, in her 200-pages letter.
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Post by Phoebonica on Nov 24, 2006 11:45:16 GMT -5
That's a good theory. I wondered about R giving Lemony the ring as well, especially because the ring wasn't originally an engagement ring, it was supposed to be handed down from mother to daughter. I wondered whether R couldn't have children, or didn't want to, or was afraid to because of the schism, and so she gave the ring to Lemony and Beatrice so it could be passed down in their family instead.
The other link in that chain that I don't understand is, why did Kit give the ring to Bertrand? Was she in love with him? Or maybe she knew R had really wanted Beatrice to have it, and gave it to Bertrand right before he proposed as a way of saying to Beatrice "here, just take it already."
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Post by Alfred is Present on Dec 27, 2006 6:42:31 GMT -5
I just would like to confirm if the cover of TBL has the word 'LetterS' punched out?
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Post by Dante on Dec 27, 2006 7:07:55 GMT -5
That is correct; it is a pleasing stylistic effect that prepares the reader for what is to come.
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Post by queequegcaptain on Dec 28, 2006 2:08:32 GMT -5
So confusing!!!!!
I have two theories 1. Lemony was in a coma for several years, and woke up thinking warpedly. 2. Lemony had already been rejected by Beatrice #1 when he wrote these letters, as he says "as you returned the item I slipped on your finger that night", implying that this event took place in the far away past. Then he finally receives correspondence from her, and is elated. When he realizes that it is not Beatrice #1 writing to him, he starts to follow the Baudelaires. This would explain how Lemony never found much (like the caravan or the fan belt), because he was ten years too late.
The only way I can explain the telegram is that he had kept a copy of the one he had typed fifteen years ago, realized it had never made it through, and sent it again, as a sign of his love.
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Post by Dale Thomas Luck on Dec 31, 2006 14:59:02 GMT -5
SPOILER Beatrice # 1 is the Baudelaire's mother. Beatrice #2 is the daughter of Kit Snicket. Kit died at the end of The End, and told the Baudelaires to look after her. Violet said that she would look after her like she was her own daughter. Kit died after birth from the Medusoid Mycelium, as she couldn't eat the antidote (the bitter apple) because it hurts things that aren't born yet, apparently. So she dies, along with Count Olaf. The Baudelaires were also told to name the baby after a dead relative, as is family tradition. THey called it Beatrice. At the end of The End, the last word is Beatrice because she said Beatrice after looking at the name of the ship. The Baudelaires however did not know if she was either reciting her name or reading the ship. And the book ends.
SPOILER END
I hope that has cleared a few things up.
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Volunteer
Catastrophic Captain
Now this is very interesting.
Posts: 63
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Post by Volunteer on Jan 12, 2007 8:13:13 GMT -5
Hey, now correct me if I'm wrong, or if this has been brought up before,but it seems to me that the reason for releasing the Beatrice Letters is so that Snicket's audience won't be to darn surprised when he (using that name or another) publishes a series in which young Beatrice searches for the Baudlaires for one reason or another.
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Post by pestolomein on Jan 14, 2007 22:03:36 GMT -5
or possibly writes a new series regarding the quagmires?
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Post by raindrop on Jan 21, 2007 12:25:20 GMT -5
I liked this book. The pictures in it were interesting, as were the letters. My favorite part was probably the really long letter that extended two and a half pages. The only thing about the book I didn't like was how big in size it was compared to the others.
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camirox
Reptile Researcher
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Post by camirox on May 19, 2007 18:27:25 GMT -5
Spoiler for the End...
Beatrice2 is Kits Daughter, who the bauds raised on the island. when she got old enogugh, she lost touch with the bauds... or she was taken by VFD and wants to find the Baudilaires (ignaore that last idea, it sux)
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secora
Bewildered Beginner
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Post by secora on Sept 27, 2007 18:50:29 GMT -5
i gotta say ive read them and you guys are totally wrong im not gonna spoil it but you are!!
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